Definition of a choke?

[mattyg]

choke is when you dominate teams all season and then get dominated in straight sets, particularly with many players playing some of their worst individual games of the season when it really matters. This really outdoes some of the things i've thought of as the biggest chokes. I thought Dragons were certain to make an impact in the finals this year, but they didn't even offer a whimper in the finals.

 

[1 Eyed TEZZA]

I just remember someone saying something that was quite funny, and it relates to Parra fans aswell.

"If your a Dragons fan and havent killed yourself yet, your not passionate enough"

 

[Ridders]

I dont think it was a choke. It didnt appear to me like the pressure got to them. Simply, they had been in 5th gear all year where everyone else was in 4th, when the semi's rolled around the other sides had a couple of gears left in them and the saints didnt. It happens im affraid, RL is cruel game sometimes, but the cream always rises to the top in the end.

Pretty much sums up what i've been trying to say. Its not like this poor form started the moment the Finals began, it started over a month before.

 

[Loudstrat]

So you are saying Parra didn't choke in the 2001 GF?

Nowhere near a choke. How can it be a choke if you score 24 points in the second half you wombat?

If they were good enough to finish on top of the competition after 26 rounds of the regular season then they should be good enough to beat every other side in the comp on any given day. The fact that they have been beaten comprehensively by lesser sides the past two weeks confirms they underperformed in the games that count. Hence a "choke'.

Were they undefeated minor premiers? No. So obviously they were never good enough to beat anyone on any given day. They simply won more games, legally, than the rest.

Oh please. When the Canberra game came about they were already measuring up the cabinet for the JJG shield. The media had practically given them the minor premiership, and it went to their heads. That was 'come finals time', and that's when the windpipe closed up. Choke.

They had a 1-6 winning ratio out of 7 games. We had a similar period earlier in the year. Ditto Brisbane. Are we chokers?

How about Cronulla and Easts? We all have the same salary cap - therefore the same chance of winning if you want to get technical. Did they choke?

Choking is not a 2 month event. Choking is Norman double bogeying the last few holes, not getting birdies but losing because someone else got a hole in one. Nor is it him playing like sh*t for a few weeks.

Choking is that chick rower who inexplicably pulled up just as they were about to win - not the beaten favorites who got eliminated in the quarter finals.

Otherwise, the undoubted biggest choke this year would have been Queensland in Origin 3.

 

[Ridders]

Loudstrat speaks the truth, although he did have to take another shot at QLD :lol:

 

[Kenny Powers]

I think they are slightly different circumstances. Parra were white hot that year, breaking records everywhere and yet absolutely disappeared for one half of the GF, while the Dragons have been outplayed for both of their Finals games.

So they weren't outplayed, Parra disappeared? Your logic is all over the shop.
Ivan Lendl is known as one of the biggest chokers in professional sports, you could argue that he was actually just outplayed in every final he lost.
A Choker is a team or individual who is overawed by the big ocassion or fails to perform when it counts, after being the best up to that point.

 

[Jason_(Is_our_King)_Smith]

I think in the modern game it's just too difficult to maintain your form and intensity for the entire season. There's gonna come a time when you hit a form slump. Unfortunately for the Dragon it occurred at the wrong end of the season. Maybe it's possible to play TOO well early in the season.

 

[ElectricEelMan]

I guess it's just me then, i just feel that if you are outplayed in both your losses, i don't really see it as a choke more that they weren't good enough or, as Eelectrica said, ran out of gas towards the end of the season.

The Broncos did NOT play particularly well its just that the Dragons were absolutely woeful last night. ABSOLUTELY WOE-FUL! They would've lost to every single team in the comp last night. And to play that bad in the most important game of the year is a 'choke' ...

 

[KeepingTheFaith]

The Broncos did NOT play particularly well its just that the Dragons were absolutely woeful last night. ABSOLUTELY WOE-FUL! They would've lost to every single team in the comp last night. And to play that bad in the most important game of the year is a 'choke' ...

Absolutely. The Broncos only really looked impressive in the opening 10-15 minutes. Aside from that all their points were virtually handed to them through field position provided by illogical and dumbass Dragons play.

The Broncos did nothing special, just tackled hard and preyed on the Dragons mistakes, which ironically was the gameplan that proved so successful for the Dragons for 90% of the regular season. Dragons choked hard.

 

[sportive cupid]

I reckon you could look at it one of two ways.

1) Saints got the leg up during the season be twice playing a larger number of eventually lowly placed teams -ie their "brilliant consistancy" was skewd by a favourable draw.In this view Saints are in fact a mediocre team that just looked good by the draw

.2)Saints are a fantastic team that failed to deliver even after given the chance to play team 8 and 6 (and a huge home ground advantage against 8)
ie Chokers.

Can't see it any other way myself:lol:

 

[Ridders]

So they weren't outplayed, Parra disappeared? Your logic is all over the shop.

Considering Parra only lost by 6 in the end of the GF, i don't see how it is considered a choke. In the first half their were by far outplayed, but came back strong in the 2nd.

A Choker is a team or individual who is overawed by the big ocassion or fails to perform when it counts, after being the best up to that point.

Going by that definition, whenever a sporting upset occurs, does that mean that the losing team choked? Does that mean that the Roosters choked in 03'?

 

[Special K]

Dragons.. So so sh*t

 

[Avenger]

Saints were overawed, plain and simple. I gave it to them last night but I reckon they were simply not good enough. The best chokes in League History was ours in 98 and Saints in 99. Unfortunately our 98 debacle is the single biggest one while as a team Saints have choked more consistently then we have but only just.

We still have plenty of demons to exorcise before we lift any trophy.

 

[kia ora storm]

Saints were overawed, plain and simple. I gave it to them last night but I reckon they were simply not good enough. The best chokes in League History was ours in 98 and Saints in 99. Unfortunately our 98 debacle is the single biggest one while as a team Saints have choked more consistently then we have but only just.

We still have plenty of demons to exorcise before we lift any trophy.

Agree...Saints capitulated in 99 and last night was even worse.

It seems that when they came up against a side who had some attackign flair and could change the game plan to beat them then they had nothing to offer.

It is all well and good having a game plan and structured attacking plan but it was obvious that Bennett had stifled their natural flair and when it came to the crunch they had no confidence to chuck the ball around, push passes, chip over the defence etc...

 

[Sea_Eagles_Rock]

Minor premiers go out in straight sets for the first time in the NRL history. Is it a choke? Of course it is.

 

[aussies1st]

I dont think it was a choke. It didnt appear to me like the pressure got to them. Simply, they had been in 5th gear all year where everyone else was in 4th, when the semi's rolled around the other sides had a couple of gears left in them and the saints didnt. It happens im affraid, RL is cruel game sometimes, but the cream always rises to the top in the end.

Exactly my feeling, they never looked like having another gear to get them through the finals.

 

[Lego_Man]

They choked.

Brisbane didnt play THAT well for most of the game. The Dragons invited them to win with a lot of sh*t errors and bad decisions. To me that constitutes a choke - playing sh*t in a high pressure game (when you are favourites and have set the benchmark all season) and gifting the game to the opposition.

It was clearly a mental issue rather than the Broncos being a superior team, and that to me seals the choke factor.

 

[Ridders]

The Saints have been playing poorly for over a month before the Finals began. Does that mean they've been choking for nearly two months?

 

[salivor]

Sure they dropped a bit of ball and made a bad call on the penalty goal attempt but they were simply outplayed. We put the blow torch on them for the first 10-15 minutes and that resulted in a 12-0 head start. Not many teams are going to come back from that playing against Brisbane in Brisbane, especially defending they way we did last night.

 

[SCoops]

Course it can.

This is the problem with the perception of choking - people think that only favourites can choke and anytime a favourite doesn't play 100% then it is considered a choke.

If the Eels totally freeze and continuously make bad decisions due to nerves - and I mean really bad decisions - then they can be considered to choke as much as the Dogs.

I totally agree with this.

Without a doubt if we let the crowd and final nerves get to us and get smashed by the dogs, Then YES that is a choke.

Coops