Do we rate melbourne?

[fulltime]

Radio coverage = 2GB the 2 means that it is a NSW radio station. If it was Victorian it would have a 3 in front.

2GB Calls Simulcast on SEN in Melbourne so same coverage as in NSW if you also get the ABC Coverage.

Pay TV = what percentage penetration does pay tv in this country have?

around 30% coverage early 2006 in Victoria. Not a bad Base to target.

Brand awareness = Waldron & co are working on improving brand awareness, that's why most media release stuff now uses purple more than any other color as it stands out in the cluttered Melbourne market-place. Most Melburnians know the Storm exist but lots have little interest because they've been brainwashed since birth that AFL is the only game to follow.

Exactly my point. It has been 10 years, a successful team with making finals in the vast majority of years. A perfect start with a premiership in the second year. Nothing more could have been done on the paddock.
You can only bang your head up against the AFL wall for so long.

Financially = Waldron's orders from News Ltd is to get the Storm self-sufficient and he is working hard to that end. I have heard talk that they are now cashflow neutral, although I am not sure of the truthfulness of my source. Corporate sponsorship of Storm is close to the best sporting sponsorship for one team in this country for 2006.

Leagues Club? That is a NSW thing. Have you been out of NSW?

yeah been to melbourne plenty of times and would of thought setting up a club of some sort with News Limited money would help. People coming to the club does more than just bring in cashflow. It has numerous benefits.

Crowd = you put much store in the drop in crowd average between 1998 and 2006, but do you understand the factors that change? If not then don't bother commenting.

The crowd provides an indication of core club support.
Once the hoopla of the new team and premiership died down the storm have settled on a core support of 8-10,000 fans. A loss of 2-3,000 off the peak from the media hype at the start can be expected.
the stagnating for 6-7 years in a new market cannot.
A new business stagnating for 6-7 years is dead in the real world.
Why should we accept it in league.
That is not enough to support a successful team.


You say that Melbourne Storm are a failed "experiment" yet you have based your entire argument on Storm's home crowds. Don't bother commenting on what you don't know or understand. Do you see me commenting on the Super League War?


I have based my argument on 10 years and no progression in the market.
The crowd figures are just one indicator of that.
If the market has little interest after 10 years, you should not throw more money at it.
The Rugby Union was smart and accepted that the AFL dominance will not be allowed to be broken in Melbourne at any cost.
The NRL should do likewise and put the money in areas where it will get benefit.

 

[fulltime]

All you melbourne supporters should be upset with me but the fact is there are still not enough turning up in average to storm games after 10 years in the market.

You can all go and say oh the tigers got 4,000 and 5,000 to 4 games etc over the last 4 years, and the storm lowest was 6,000.

well, you are right on one thing the tigers are fickle fans.
When they go bad they don't go to the ground but it doesn't hide a simple and substantiated fact.

When the tigers win the fans are actually there to target and entice back to the game.

The crowd figures show this explicitly.

The Storm just don't have the fans despite the decent success over 10 years.

5,000 turned up to an athletics meeting this year at OP.
1 v 2 in the NRL gets double that.

 

[Beaver]

Yes i rate melbourne. But they wont beat manly this week. Quote me all you like on it.

 

[UndertakerMike]

Radio coverage = 2GB the 2 means that it is a NSW radio station. If it was Victorian it would have a 3 in front.

LOL FullyStupid eh?

:lol:

 

[taipan]

Radio coverage = 2GB the 2 means that it is a NSW radio station. If it was Victorian it would have a 3 in front.

2GB Calls Simulcast on SEN in Melbourne so same coverage as in NSW if you also get the ABC Coverage.

Pay TV = what percentage penetration does pay tv in this country have?

around 30% coverage early 2006 in Victoria. Not a bad Base to target.

Brand awareness = Waldron & co are working on improving brand awareness, that's why most media release stuff now uses purple more than any other color as it stands out in the cluttered Melbourne market-place. Most Melburnians know the Storm exist but lots have little interest because they've been brainwashed since birth that AFL is the only game to follow.

Exactly my point. It has been 10 years, a successful team with making finals in the vast majority of years. A perfect start with a premiership in the second year. Nothing more could have been done on the paddock.
You can only bang your head up against the AFL wall for so long.

Financially = Waldron's orders from News Ltd is to get the Storm self-sufficient and he is working hard to that end. I have heard talk that they are now cashflow neutral, although I am not sure of the truthfulness of my source. Corporate sponsorship of Storm is close to the best sporting sponsorship for one team in this country for 2006.

Leagues Club? That is a NSW thing. Have you been out of NSW?

yeah been to melbourne plenty of times and would of thought setting up a club of some sort with News Limited money would help. People coming to the club does more than just bring in cashflow. It has numerous benefits.

Crowd = you put much store in the drop in crowd average between 1998 and 2006, but do you understand the factors that change? If not then don't bother commenting.

The crowd provides an indication of core club support.
Once the hoopla of the new team and premiership died down the storm have settled on a core support of 8-10,000 fans. A loss of 2-3,000 off the peak from the media hype at the start can be expected.
the stagnating for 6-7 years in a new market cannot.
A new business stagnating for 6-7 years is dead in the real world.
Why should we accept it in league.
That is not enough to support a successful team.


You say that Melbourne Storm are a failed "experiment" yet you have based your entire argument on Storm's home crowds. Don't bother commenting on what you don't know or understand. Do you see me commenting on the Super League War?


I have based my argument on 10 years and no progression in the market.
The crowd figures are just one indicator of that.
If the market has little interest after 10 years, you should not throw more money at it.
The Rugby Union was smart and accepted that the AFL dominance will not be allowed to be broken in Melbourne at any cost.
The NRL should do likewise and put the money in areas where it will get benefit.

Point 1.The Storm have only been in Melbourne 8 years>They have had little or no promotion in that time.
Point 2.The Storm/rugby league will have $23m injected int0 promotion and junior development in the next 3 years
Point 3.A new $100m stadium from 2008,compared to the dogs paddock now.
Point 4.The crowd for the Storm v Cowboys of 10,800 exceeded the Saints v Warriors in the heart of league territory.In fact some of the crowds at Cronulla(who I support),Parramatta,Canberra etc have either had lower or near enough crowds to the Storm in established league areas.
Point 5.The Swans were getting crowds below 10,000 and were in the doldrums until the start of the SL war.In other words they were in sydney for more than 10 years and the AFL persevered.
Point 6.Rugby league is now an offically recognised sport in the state schools of Vic,and is making inroads already this year.
Point7.Victoria the 2nd biggest state financially and commercially.The Storm are now amongst the highest sponsored clubs in th NRL,and match the top 2 in the AFL-with Host Plus and Medibank.
Point 8.When you get blokes like Hadley,Fitzgerald,Gibbs knocking having a Storm team,you know its the right thing to have a team there.Hadley who has made more errors than you can count,Fitzgerald who not only has a team
performing below standard but wanted a S14 union franchise and the amalgamation of the codes are not exactly reliableor fountains of knowledge.

 

[fulltime]

LOL FullyStupid eh?

:lol:

:iwstupid:

apparently you are too UndertakerMike as I pointed out in above post it is broadcast in victoria and there ain't a 3 in sight ](*,)

 

[gaterooze]

Some of these arguments are bizarre. Souths have been around for almost a hundred years yet get lower crowds than Melbourne.

I hate to say it, but you have to look at AFL for the right attitude to expansion. The Swans have been here 20 years, with $20 million in promotion every year, and despite them being largely ignored by TV audiences, they have a substantial presence and the AFL reaps enormous rewards from that.

Ditto with QLD.

Why are people so narrow-minded that they won't allow that same evolution the chance to occur in VIC?

The Storm's existence is not costing you or the NRL anything (News Ltd can easily afford it), they are a great team to watch play, and they have a knack of unearthing some brilliant talent.

Exactly where is the *negative* impact of the Storm?

 

[MayMoo]

The Storm's existence is not costing you or the NRL anything (News Ltd can easily afford it),

Fair Call, I just don't believe that thought is shared anymore by Rupie and the NEWS investors in Delaware.

Melbourne will at some point have to be sustainable without direct ownership from NEWS.

Good Luck to them if they can do it, but they havent got forwever. Hopefully for their sakes thay can attract some investors.

And to the bloke who said in another thread that it is a tax write off for NEWS and they are happy about it get your hand off - That is BS.

 

[meltiger]

Tigers actually but here are some facts to sum up the failure of the melbourne experiment.

name the last team to be near the top of the table after 7 or more rounds and not be able to pull 13,000 to a single home game.

In fact name the only team that has failed to get 13,000 to a single home game from 2002 onwards.

name the team with an avg of 9,536 this year, and who has averaged less than 10,000 every year from 2002 on.

What piss poor figures for a team with the playmakers, talent and current performance they have.

Based anywhere else that team would be supported by 15,000+ every home game.

The Storm on the field are a success.

Unfortunately they are an abysmal failure in every other department.

With all due respect, it was f**king freezing on Saturday night, the crowd they drew was fair given the weather.

Once we have the new stadium, the crowds will be better.

The Tigers wouldn't have drawn more than 10k to Leichhardt or Campbelltown in that weather.

 

[meltiger]

Travelling fans?

How many travelling fans can Storm count in our home crowd numbers? Very bloody few I can guarantee you. How many Tigers crowds over 13k are against interstate/overseas teams?

lol


What a classic comment - "No suprise to see 3 of those games against out of town teams" & his basic admission that the games that have good crowds are because both local teams are capable of bringing people to the stadium.


I think the kid might be struggling with the concept that Melbourne always play out of town teams.

 

[meltiger]

These are the totals for the Tigers and the Storm since each club has been in existence. Note both clubs have had a spike at the time of inception, and also around their premierships.

Also note, which of the two teams has the bigger drop off in non-premiership times...

Year Tigers Storm
1998 n/a 12717
1999 n/a 12902
2000 12,124 13756
2001 9,294 11969
2002 10,478 9088
2003 8,993 9626
2004 13,925 8886
2005 18,823 8898
2006 19,190 9536
Totals 92,827 97,378
Average 13,261 10,820


Now I ask you, given the Tigers are essentially two teams merged into one, who play their home games in RL heartland, with a combined total of almost 200 years to gather support, and have the ability in at least half of their home games to draw 3-5,000 away fans as opposed to a team 9 years old, in an expansion area, who have almost zero ability to attract more than maybe 1,000 away fans... Which teams average crowds are more of an achievment?

I'd be interested to know how many people Tigers fans think they would attract to a game against an out of town team on a miserable, wet night after it's been raining all day long and is 10 degrees, with a freezing arctic southerly blowing through.

 

[fulltime]

lol


What a classic comment - "No suprise to see 3 of those games against out of town teams" & his basic admission that the games that have good crowds are because both local teams are capable of bringing people to the stadium.


I think the kid might be struggling with the concept that Melbourne always play out of town teams.

All it shows is that on the odd occassion if the local supporters don't turn up the interstate away fans who have to travel further can't hide that fact that the locals didn't turn up.

The fact that the storm don't have enough local fans is evident almost every home game and has been for the last 4 years.

Rmember we are talking about a team who is a single team in a city that has a population of 3.5 million.

After 8 years to draw only a 1/4 of 1% of the city poulation to a game every 2 weeks is abysmal.

If canberra drew an equivalent percentage there crowd would be about 1000.

If New Zealand drew an equivalent percentage using Auckland(in the north of the north island) and surrounding area poulation of around 1.3mil would draw about 3600.
And remember like melbourne league isn't king in NZ, it's a long way behind Union.

Don't NZ always play away games and yet if they drew an average of 3600 to be equivalent in percentage terms to melbourne do you think everyone would no be blowing up.

 

[meltiger]

Rmember we are talking about a team who is a single team in a city that has a population of 3.5 million.

After 8 years to draw only a 1/4 of 1% of the city poulation to a game every 2 weeks is abysmal.

The Canberra and Auckland comparisons are complete rubbish. These are two cities with a strong RL History.

A better comparison would be to see how the Sydney Swans average crowds have stacked up against the AFL average over the years if you want to go down the '1 team town' road in an expansion city with no real history of playing the game.

Given they were propped up for at least 20 years of their existence, you might find your argument wearing a bit thin.

What you cannot run away from kid, is that your beloved Tigers average crowds over their history, really are not all that much higher than the Storm's. & this is with the natural advantage you have of being able to draw on a much larger 'travelling support'

 

[LESStar58]

Tigers actually but here are some facts to sum up the failure of the melbourne experiment.

name the last team to be near the top of the table after 7 or more rounds and not be able to pull 13,000 to a single home game.

In fact name the only team that has failed to get 13,000 to a single home game from 2002 onwards.

name the team with an avg of 9,536 this year, and who has averaged less than 10,000 every year from 2002 on.

What piss poor figures for a team with the playmakers, talent and current performance they have.

Based anywhere else that team would be supported by 15,000+ every home game.

The Storm on the field are a success.

Unfortunately they are an abysmal failure in every other department.

Have you ever lived in Victoria mate? AFL fans are grossly insular and not prepared to support anything else that will pull their attentionn away from their game of 36 drunken bogans chasing a $5 note around an alley on a blustery day.

You are a goose. Try livin down here and putting up with no media coverage and f**k all promotion before you start giving us your figures and statistics.

 

[fulltime]

These are the totals for the Tigers and the Storm since each club has been in existence. Note both clubs have had a spike at the time of inception, and also around their premierships.

Also note, which of the two teams has the bigger drop off in non-premiership times...

Year Tigers Storm
1998 n/a 12717
1999 n/a 12902
2000 12,124 13756
2001 9,294 11969
2002 10,478 9088
2003 8,993 9626
2004 13,925 8886
2005 18,823 8898
2006 19,190 9536
Totals 92,827 97,378
Average 13,261 10,820


Now I ask you, given the Tigers are essentially two teams merged into one, who play their home games in RL heartland, with a combined total of almost 200 years to gather support as opposed to a team 9 years old, in an expansion area... Which teams average crowds are more of an achievment?

I'd be interested to know how many people Tigers fans think they would attract to a game against an out of town team on a miserable, wet night after it's been raining all day long and is 10 degrees, with a freezing arctic southerly blowing through.

Ok using various figures and merging the GWS sydney poulation and the inner west population the tigers have around 3 mil at best to draw upon discounting any support for the numerous other sydney teams.

To achieve the same percentage as melbourne our crowd at either stadium would need to be around 8400 per game without any competition from competiting teams vying for the same market.

How many teams are competing for the same market in sydney. More than one I believe.

If the swans were to draw an equivalent crowd to a game in sydney at 1/4 of 1% it would be around 12000.
I would defy anybody to show when the swans when fielding a team able to make the afl top 8(which the storm have done for 3 years in a row) have ever drawn this few a supporters after say the first 5 years.
The only time this poor a crowd would of happened after the first 5 years was the 3/4 years when they could barely win a game.
Something that has yet to happen to the storm considering there regular on field success.

Where are the fans? Still an unanswered question.

 

[Crusher]

geez..

melbourne...

They're doing well without Crocker or Slater!!!

Must be close to favourites this being the case

 

[LESStar58]

..yeah

Of course they should be attracting 15,000+ to there games, but when was the last time you seen there stadium, its a shocker. Im rather confident that Storm will crack the 13,000 crowd this season at some stage. Maybe against the Bulldogs or Broncos. I hope they do at least.

The Broncos game in 05 (50-4 win) got 12,000 people last year. Considering that people will be in town for Origin and i'm sure it'll be the AFL free weekend theres no reason we won't sell the game out or get possibly 15,000. The NRL and the Storm need to put their thinking caps on as well and offer Victorian residents with Origin tickets discount entry or 2 for 1 entry to that Broncos game.

We get the showpeice of the code and its a perfect opportunity to tell the Melbournian people "we have a team here and severeal players from Storm are on show tonight. If you enjoyed tonight go watch your hometown team!

 

[LESStar58]

geez..

melbourne...

They're doing well without Crocker or Slater!!!

Must be close to favourites this being the case

check this out...

source: http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,19135667%255E14823,00.html

A potent brew, forward and back
Karl deKroo
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Sans-Serif]15may06[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Sans-Serif]THE most miserly defence in the competition and young front rowers who have exceeded their expectations.

They are the keys to Melbourne Storm's ascent of the premiership ladder, according to coach Craig Bellamy.

For the first time since its debut season in 1998, Storm sits atop the NRL.
And while Bellamy is doing his best to keep a lid on his players' emotions, Melbourne fans sense the beginning of something special.
"We don't mind the fans getting excited, that's their job," Bellamy said.
"Ours is to continue to work on the processes which make us a better footy side.
"We are still a work in progress. We are still developing our attack and, defensively, we have a little way to go.
"We are far from a faultless footy team.
"We are winning games because the boys are playing for each other, but you need more than that if we are going to make any impact on the competition and beat top sides when it really matters."
A work in progress maybe, but after an enthralling 18-6 win over North Queensland on Saturday night -- Storm's fifth in a row -- its premiership odds will be slashed.
"What can you say. We got it wrong," chief trader of sports betting agency Sports Acumen, Matt Fisk, said last night.
"Six weeks ago we had them as $21 outsiders -- they'll be $7 second favourite when our markets go up.
"That game on Saturday night was unbelievable.
"To play like that against the Cowboys, given the guys they had missing, it's a fair assumption to think they are close to the best team in the competition at the moment."
Bellamy is quick to point out that it is only Round 10 but, that said, success so far has been built on a simple formula.
"Defensively, we have been really good and I think that has laid the platform for us," Bellamy said.
"Obviously it is an area that we do a lot of work on.
"We work hard on defensive technique, on positioning and actual contact, but it comes down to attitude as well.
"You have to want to do it for the guy beside you and that's what our whole game is based on at the moment."
In what has been a superb team effort, Bellamy singled out front rowers Ian Donnelly, Adam Blair, Brett White and Garrett Crossman for praise.
Even the most avid league fan would have known little of the fearless four before the season, but they have been responsible for driving Melbourne forward and providing the platform for Cameron Smith, Cooper Cronk and Greg Inglis to shine.
"Those guys can definitely take a fair bit of credit for the way we're going," Bellamy said.
"It (front row) was probably the main question hanging over us at the start of the year, but they have been great."
Crossman had scans on an ankle injury yesterday, but is expected to be available to play against Manly next Saturday night. Veteran winger Matt Geyer, is also in some doubt with a shoulder problem, but Jake Webster (neck) should return.[/FONT]

 

[meltiger]

If the swans were to draw an equivalent crowd to a game in sydney at 1/4 of 1% it would be around 12000.
I would defy anybody to show when the swans when fielding a team able to make the afl top 8(which the storm have done for 3 years in a row) have ever drawn this few a supporters after say the first 5 years.
The only time this poor a crowd would of happened after the first 5 years was the 3/4 years when they could barely win a game.
Something that has yet to happen to the storm considering there regular on field success.

Congratulations, you can use a calculator ...


But you have thrown out yet another flawed argument, I asked you to compare the Swans average crowds against the AFL average, not the RL average.

It's a commonly known fact that the AFL is able to attract much larger crowds to their games.

For the record, it was a lot warmer yesterday than it was on Saturday night.

Carlton and Essendon, two of our most famous and largest supported clubs managed to draw a crowd of 32,000 yesterday to the MCG, our sporting cathedral.

Drop that into support for each club and you get 16,000 per team ... The Storm's crowd on Saturday night when it was absoloutely f**king freezing was 10k, that doesn't stack up too bad comparitively.

Personally, I don't really mind the cold and even I chose to go watch the Warratahs in a nice warm pub than brave Olympic Park in that weather. I go to most of the Storm's games.

 

[Crusher]

Melbourne Storm average crowd breakdown

Those who support NRL in Victoria - 10%
Those who go to the game cause their AFL team is out of town - 90%