News Do you care if Israel Folau returns to the NRL?

[Timmah]

Freedom of association acts as sufficient regulation. Further action is punitive and puts too much power in the hands of the state.

That doesn't answer the question why, you're just saying what you support.

Why is important to you that people have the right to freely discriminate?

 

[Perth Red]

Anyway we seem to be missing the real key topic here, the fact Rugby Union has lost its only publicly known star player, sinking it into even further obscurity! lol

 

[Timmah]

Its an interesting opinion, not shared by the majority of society I suspect. As with all things there are levels of consequence and the hate speech laws are for the extreme levels that could injure or lead to lnjury of people. Most of us have no problem that we have laws for such extremeism. Folau wont be charged because what he said was unpleasant, offensive and not societally acceptable, but he wasnt calling for the decapitation of gays in the street, which probably would have led to him being charged.

Apparently we're all the ones struggling with nuance lol

 

[age.s]

That doesn't answer the question why, you're just saying what you support.

Why is important to you that people have the right to freely discriminate?

Because everyone discriminates all the time. I want you to be able to do so for whatever reason you like. I want Folau and the ARU to be able to do so too. Otherwise you're forcing association on people. I find that morally repugnant in a way that dwarfs any supposed good that comes from it.

 

[Timmah]

Because everyone discriminates all the time. I want you to be able to do so for whatever reason you like. I want Folau and the ARU to be able to do so too. Otherwise you're forcing association on people. I find that morally repugnant in a way that dwarfs any supposed good that comes from it.

I don't understand the correlation. How is suggesting people aren't free to openly discriminate the same as forcing association on others?

What even is "forcing association"?

 

[Pedge1971]

Can't? Or you'll do what exactly?

This sounds like a meet me at the aquarium moment....

 

[age.s]

I don't understand the correlation. How is suggesting people aren't free to openly discriminate the same as forcing association on others?

What even is "forcing association"?

The opposite of freedom of association.

Eg, the freedom to refuse to bake a cake for a gay wedding.

 

[Perth Red]

The opposite of freedom of association.

Eg, the freedom to refuse to bake a cake for a gay wedding.

You have the right to not bake a cake for a gay wedding. But the consequences of being a homophobic bigot mean society will respond accordingly to you. I actually think you shouldn't, anymore than you should have the right not to serve a person in a pub because of their skin colour or refuse a taxi ride because of the way someone dresses.

 

[Timmah]

The opposite of freedom of association.

Eg, the freedom to refuse to bake a cake for a gay wedding.

Oh wow, we managed to circle around to this one. Wow.

 

[Pedge1971]

That's hilarious.

You really don't understand free speech do you.

You can't say that shit mate...

 

[Meth]

The opposite of freedom of association.

Eg, the freedom to refuse to bake a cake for a gay wedding.

You’re not free to deny service on the grounds of sexual orientation. That’s easy

 

[Shark62]

The opposite of freedom of association.

Eg, the freedom to refuse to bake a cake for a gay wedding.

Ahh the old gay wedding cake argument.
Amazing how one small incident like this gets dragged into every debate about LGBTQ issues.
That cake has a lot to answer for.

 

[age.s]

But the consequences of being a homophobic bigot mean society will respond accordingly to you.

Absolutely. Freedom of association. You and those around you are free to consider the baker an assholes and not do business with him. Just don't burn his store to the ground.

 

[age.s]

Oh wow, we managed to circle around to this one. Wow.

C'mon mate. You asked the question. That's the most prominent example I could bring to mind of where freedom of association conflicted with discrimination legislation. It's almost textbook.

 

[Timmah]

Absolutely. Freedom of association. You and those around you are free to consider the baker an assholes and not do business with him. Just don't burn his store to the ground.

Burn his store to the ground?

You have moved the goalposts on this so many times we might as well be playing in f**king Tasmania

 

[age.s]

Burn his store to the ground?

You have moved the goalposts on this so many times we might as well be playing in f**king Tasmania

I'm not suggesting you or PR are suggesting violence. I'm just outlining what I think the parameters for recourse should be.

 

[Timmah]

C'mon mate. You asked the question. That's the most prominent example I could bring to mind of where freedom of association conflicted with discrimination legislation. It's almost textbook.

It's not even remotely textbook, it's a periphery example (much like the Canadian crap you trotted out) to distract from the topic at hand.

You start introducing hilariously obtuse things like suggesting people burning cake stores to the ground and we end up going around in stupid circles.

I'm not suggesting you or PR are suggesting violence. I'm just outlining what I think the parameters for recourse should be.

I think most people understand what the parameters for discourse generally are.

 

[Perth Red]

Absolutely. Freedom of association. You and those around you are free to consider the baker an assholes and not do business with him. Just don't burn his store to the ground.

Its not about burning the store to the ground, its about having laws that ensure that people cant discriminate against someone. How would you feel if you were in another country and someone refused to serve you because you where white (if you are?)? Now imagine if that was ok and happened every day numerous times a day, you couldnt get work, get served or get a bus. Seriously that is where your logic seems to be going, do you honestly believe that would be ok?

 

[t-ba]

Real Libertarian AnCap hours...

 

[Timmah]

Real Libertarian AnCap hours...

Apparently he's replying to us on his lunch break. Longest lunch break ever