Dragons chase Jarryd Hayne

[dragonssamy61]

If Hayne signs then the backline will look something like this:

FB - Dufty - 179cm and 83kg
LW - Pearson - 184cm and 95kg
RW - Hayne - 190cm and 102kg
LC - Lafai - 184cm and 98kg
RC - Lomax - 190cm and 94kg

I've highlighted the left side mainly for the height factor. I would expect teams to bomb us on that side continuously. It seem to be ok with Periera there but he's even shorter than both Pearson and Lafai.

The balance on the right looks ok to me. Both Hayne and Lomax at 190cm. It's been pointed out that Aitken is only 182cm and is terrible under the high ball.

Hayne on the wing allows to him to drop back and assist Dufty under the high balls.

The mix of Lafai feeding the speedster Pearson appeals to me, and especially when Leilua comes on with his offloads. Same as the combo of Hayne and Lomax adds more value than Aitken could provide to either as both of them can offload and look for support play.

This would also allow Dufty to stay at fullback and hopefully gain more confidence and learn something from Hayne.

Hayne for 2 years also would fit in nicely with the emergence of Saab (hopefully) at that time.

Well said mate.
Good logic used.
Let hope Mary think out of the box.
But unfortunately I see him having Aitken in there

 

[Drag Queen]

You know the answer to all this is simple and it is overlooked everywhere.
You cant just blame the Dragons. There is not enough 1st grade standard talent to fill 16 teams and 30 players a team..at NRL wages. Some clubs do it but we know how and that is only a handful. I'd love a squad like the Roosters or Brisbane or depth of Penrith.
It is going to get worse in this country with dwindling numbers of Juniors everywhere, without just importing players.
The fact that you said Periera would not get a start at 12 other clubs, but will find a home at 4 clubs, means he is NRL quality.
But look at Dragons whole squad against some of the others. Our squad except for a few tweeks in the backine is pretty strong and competitive

I concur. I like Periera. I would suggest looking to NZ Union for cross-coders. Even the C-grade AB's have so much potential.

 

[True_Believer]

Let’s have a look at a number of clubs in recent years – just off the top of my head:

• Melbourne – found to have cheated the cap, have been reported to currently have the most TPAs
  
• Bulldogs – left in a mess following back ended contracts for players, suspected cap breaches, still offloading players this year to counter impact
  
  
• Parramatta – found to have cheated the cap, in the process of shedding players to counter impact
  
  
• Manly – left in a mess following back ended deals, recently investigated for cheating the cap
  
  
• Sharks – found to have supplied performance enhancing drugs to their players, still being investigated for cheating the cap
  
  
• Broncos – suspected of cheating the cap and have been investigated but cleared (unconvincingly and under suspicious circumstances), reported to be second on the list of TPAs
  
  
• Cowboys – suspected of cheating the cap and have been investigated but cleared
  

And these are just off the top of my head.

At least to me, this indicates that teams feel they need to break the rules to compete – hell the Eels even used the excuse that they breached the salary cap because they thought that’s what Brisbane were doing!! 3 in the list have been recent premiers and a couple of them have consistently been contenders. That says a lot.

The yearly increases in the cap go hand in hand with player salary expectations. So even with more cap funds, you don’t necessarily have more money to play with. This places even more emphasis on TPAs – a majority of which are concentrated external to the greater Sydney area. So as the club with reportedly the lowest TPAs, to compete with the rest of the comp, we need to pay more out of the cap for players than others (or at least those teams consistently competing for the title year after year). This limits the number of quality players we can purchase and therefore requires us to fill the gap with cheaper less high profile players and up and comers. In the case of the latter, I would guess that both the club and the players sign short contracts – the players hoping to sign a more lucrative deal at the end after proving themselves, and the club needing to continue to play the financial balancing act. Jumping in early and signing long term deals doesn’t seem wise for either party (unless they are on a good deal).

As far as the TPAs go, there have been situations reported that can be used to get around this without attracting the attention of the NRL. Jobs for family members, bets made at golfing games etc. Unless we have money or contacts with money, you'll never compete. So it's not solely about the registered TPAs.

Not only that, we have to fill 2 teams with players and so when we have the ability to sign players on the cheap (I am guessing players like Lats, Allgood, Kerr etc aren’t expensive) we do so with the belief that it provides the backup we need, while keeping a good amount of cash free for a more high profile player – which is what I have taken from the last recruitment update. We’ve still got 2 spots free and I’m interested to see what we end up doing in that space.

I’m not advocating in any way that every choice Millward has made has been correct, however I am a little sympathetic to the situation and, although I’m not across the intricacies of the recruitment role, I am under no illusions that it’s just a matter of buy and sell. Has he made mistakes? Definitely. But I think, in the grand scheme of things, he hasn't done a bad job to date.

 

[dragonssamy61]

For starters..in contract negotiations things change all the time... I also heard Hayne was asking too much a few weeks ago...Haven't heard anything else since...how about instead of shooting the messenger you contribute something positive to the forum.

Samy has passed on plenty of good info and is highly regarded here.

P.S Samy is also recovering from post op surgery...maybe have a think about that. Hope all is going well Samy.

Everything good smarty. Its a slow process but getting there slowly.
Thanks for you thoughts .
Much appreciated

 

[denis preston]

Let’s have a look at a number of clubs in recent years – just off the top of my head:

• Melbourne – found to have cheated the cap, have been reported to currently have the most TPAs
  
• Bulldogs – left in a mess following back ended contracts for players, suspected cap breaches, still offloading players this year to counter impact
  
  
• Parramatta – found to have cheated the cap, in the process of shedding players to counter impact
  
  
• Manly – left in a mess following back ended deals, recently investigated for cheating the cap
  
  
• Sharks – found to have supplied performance enhancing drugs to their players, still being investigated for cheating the cap
  
  
• Broncos – suspected of cheating the cap and have been investigated but cleared (unconvincingly and under suspicious circumstances), reported to be second on the list of TPAs
  
  
• Cowboys – suspected of cheating the cap and have been investigated but cleared

And these are just off the top of my head.

At least to me, this indicates that teams feel they need to break the rules to compete – hell the Eels even used the excuse that they breached the salary cap because they thought that’s what Brisbane were doing!! 3 in the list have been recent premiers and a couple of them have consistently been contenders. That says a lot.

The yearly increases in the cap go hand in hand with player salary expectations. So even with more cap funds, you don’t necessarily have more money to play with. This places even more emphasis on TPAs – a majority of which are concentrated external to the greater Sydney area. So as the club with reportedly the lowest TPAs, to compete with the rest of the comp, we need to pay more out of the cap for players than others (or at least those teams consistently competing for the title year after year). This limits the number of quality players we can purchase and therefore requires us to fill the gap with cheaper less high profile players and up and comers. In the case of the latter, I would guess that both the club and the players sign short contracts – the players hoping to sign a more lucrative deal at the end after proving themselves, and the club needing to continue to play the financial balancing act. Jumping in early and signing long term deals doesn’t seem wise for either party (unless they are on a good deal).

As far as the TPAs go, there have been situations reported that can be used to get around this without attracting the attention of the NRL. Jobs for family members, bets made at golfing games etc. Unless we have money or contacts with money, you'll never compete. So it's not solely about the registered TPAs.

Not only that, we have to fill 2 teams with players and so when we have the ability to sign players on the cheap (I am guessing players like Lats, Allgood, Kerr etc aren’t expensive) we do so with the belief that it provides the backup we need, while keeping a good amount of cash free for a more high profile player – which is what I have taken from the last recruitment update. We’ve still got 2 spots free and I’m interested to see what we end up doing in that space.

I’m not advocating in any way that every choice Millward has made has been correct, however I am a little sympathetic to the situation and, although I’m not across the intricacies of the recruitment role, I am under no illusions that it’s just a matter of buy and sell. Has he made mistakes? Definitely. But I think, in the grand scheme of things, he hasn't done a bad job to date.

Nut Shell .

 

[getsmarty]

Everything good smarty. Its a slow process but getting there slowly.
Thanks for you thoughts .
Much appreciated

Good to hear Samy. Keep your chin up...and we all look forward to hearing positive news in the near future.

 

[BLM01]

I concur. I like Periera. I would suggest looking to NZ Union for cross-coders. Even the C-grade AB's have so much potential.

Correct and that is what Union and NRL have to do at 1st grade level in this country to attract players because they are not coming through the ranks as much as they would like to support the number of teams.

 

[red rocket]

Let’s have a look at a number of clubs in recent years – just off the top of my head:

• Melbourne – found to have cheated the cap, have been reported to currently have the most TPAs
  
• Bulldogs – left in a mess following back ended contracts for players, suspected cap breaches, still offloading players this year to counter impact
  
  
• Parramatta – found to have cheated the cap, in the process of shedding players to counter impact
  
  
• Manly – left in a mess following back ended deals, recently investigated for cheating the cap
  
  
• Sharks – found to have supplied performance enhancing drugs to their players, still being investigated for cheating the cap
  
  
• Broncos – suspected of cheating the cap and have been investigated but cleared (unconvincingly and under suspicious circumstances), reported to be second on the list of TPAs
  
  
• Cowboys – suspected of cheating the cap and have been investigated but cleared

And these are just off the top of my head.

At least to me, this indicates that teams feel they need to break the rules to compete – hell the Eels even used the excuse that they breached the salary cap because they thought that’s what Brisbane were doing!! 3 in the list have been recent premiers and a couple of them have consistently been contenders. That says a lot.

The yearly increases in the cap go hand in hand with player salary expectations. So even with more cap funds, you don’t necessarily have more money to play with. This places even more emphasis on TPAs – a majority of which are concentrated external to the greater Sydney area. So as the club with reportedly the lowest TPAs, to compete with the rest of the comp, we need to pay more out of the cap for players than others (or at least those teams consistently competing for the title year after year). This limits the number of quality players we can purchase and therefore requires us to fill the gap with cheaper less high profile players and up and comers. In the case of the latter, I would guess that both the club and the players sign short contracts – the players hoping to sign a more lucrative deal at the end after proving themselves, and the club needing to continue to play the financial balancing act. Jumping in early and signing long term deals doesn’t seem wise for either party (unless they are on a good deal).

As far as the TPAs go, there have been situations reported that can be used to get around this without attracting the attention of the NRL. Jobs for family members, bets made at golfing games etc. Unless we have money or contacts with money, you'll never compete. So it's not solely about the registered TPAs.

Not only that, we have to fill 2 teams with players and so when we have the ability to sign players on the cheap (I am guessing players like Lats, Allgood, Kerr etc aren’t expensive) we do so with the belief that it provides the backup we need, while keeping a good amount of cash free for a more high profile player – which is what I have taken from the last recruitment update. We’ve still got 2 spots free and I’m interested to see what we end up doing in that space.

I’m not advocating in any way that every choice Millward has made has been correct, however I am a little sympathetic to the situation and, although I’m not across the intricacies of the recruitment role, I am under no illusions that it’s just a matter of buy and sell. Has he made mistakes? Definitely. But I think, in the grand scheme of things, he hasn't done a bad job to date.

Let’s have a look at a number of clubs in recent years – just off the top of my head:

• Melbourne – found to have cheated the cap, have been reported to currently have the most TPAs
  
• Bulldogs – left in a mess following back ended contracts for players, suspected cap breaches, still offloading players this year to counter impact
  
  
• Parramatta – found to have cheated the cap, in the process of shedding players to counter impact
  
  
• Manly – left in a mess following back ended deals, recently investigated for cheating the cap
  
  
• Sharks – found to have supplied performance enhancing drugs to their players, still being investigated for cheating the cap
  
  
• Broncos – suspected of cheating the cap and have been investigated but cleared (unconvincingly and under suspicious circumstances), reported to be second on the list of TPAs
  
  
• Cowboys – suspected of cheating the cap and have been investigated but cleared

And these are just off the top of my head.

At least to me, this indicates that teams feel they need to break the rules to compete – hell the Eels even used the excuse that they breached the salary cap because they thought that’s what Brisbane were doing!! 3 in the list have been recent premiers and a couple of them have consistently been contenders. That says a lot.

The yearly increases in the cap go hand in hand with player salary expectations. So even with more cap funds, you don’t necessarily have more money to play with. This places even more emphasis on TPAs – a majority of which are concentrated external to the greater Sydney area. So as the club with reportedly the lowest TPAs, to compete with the rest of the comp, we need to pay more out of the cap for players than others (or at least those teams consistently competing for the title year after year). This limits the number of quality players we can purchase and therefore requires us to fill the gap with cheaper less high profile players and up and comers. In the case of the latter, I would guess that both the club and the players sign short contracts – the players hoping to sign a more lucrative deal at the end after proving themselves, and the club needing to continue to play the financial balancing act. Jumping in early and signing long term deals doesn’t seem wise for either party (unless they are on a good deal).

As far as the TPAs go, there have been situations reported that can be used to get around this without attracting the attention of the NRL. Jobs for family members, bets made at golfing games etc. Unless we have money or contacts with money, you'll never compete. So it's not solely about the registered TPAs.

Not only that, we have to fill 2 teams with players and so when we have the ability to sign players on the cheap (I am guessing players like Lats, Allgood, Kerr etc aren’t expensive) we do so with the belief that it provides the backup we need, while keeping a good amount of cash free for a more high profile player – which is what I have taken from the last recruitment update. We’ve still got 2 spots free and I’m interested to see what we end up doing in that space.

I’m not advocating in any way that every choice Millward has made has been correct, however I am a little sympathetic to the situation and, although I’m not across the intricacies of the recruitment role, I am under no illusions that it’s just a matter of buy and sell. Has he made mistakes? Definitely. But I think, in the grand scheme of things, he hasn't done a bad job to date.

Well said some people on this forum have not got a clue

 

[BLM01]

Let’s have a look at a number of clubs in recent years – just off the top of my head:

• Melbourne – found to have cheated the cap, have been reported to currently have the most TPAs
  
• Bulldogs – left in a mess following back ended contracts for players, suspected cap breaches, still offloading players this year to counter impact
  
  
• Parramatta – found to have cheated the cap, in the process of shedding players to counter impact
  
  
• Manly – left in a mess following back ended deals, recently investigated for cheating the cap
  
  
• Sharks – found to have supplied performance enhancing drugs to their players, still being investigated for cheating the cap
  
  
• Broncos – suspected of cheating the cap and have been investigated but cleared (unconvincingly and under suspicious circumstances), reported to be second on the list of TPAs
  
  
• Cowboys – suspected of cheating the cap and have been investigated but cleared

And these are just off the top of my head.

At least to me, this indicates that teams feel they need to break the rules to compete – hell the Eels even used the excuse that they breached the salary cap because they thought that’s what Brisbane were doing!! 3 in the list have been recent premiers and a couple of them have consistently been contenders. That says a lot.

The yearly increases in the cap go hand in hand with player salary expectations. So even with more cap funds, you don’t necessarily have more money to play with. This places even more emphasis on TPAs – a majority of which are concentrated external to the greater Sydney area. So as the club with reportedly the lowest TPAs, to compete with the rest of the comp, we need to pay more out of the cap for players than others (or at least those teams consistently competing for the title year after year). This limits the number of quality players we can purchase and therefore requires us to fill the gap with cheaper less high profile players and up and comers. In the case of the latter, I would guess that both the club and the players sign short contracts – the players hoping to sign a more lucrative deal at the end after proving themselves, and the club needing to continue to play the financial balancing act. Jumping in early and signing long term deals doesn’t seem wise for either party (unless they are on a good deal).

As far as the TPAs go, there have been situations reported that can be used to get around this without attracting the attention of the NRL. Jobs for family members, bets made at golfing games etc. Unless we have money or contacts with money, you'll never compete. So it's not solely about the registered TPAs.

Not only that, we have to fill 2 teams with players and so when we have the ability to sign players on the cheap (I am guessing players like Lats, Allgood, Kerr etc aren’t expensive) we do so with the belief that it provides the backup we need, while keeping a good amount of cash free for a more high profile player – which is what I have taken from the last recruitment update. We’ve still got 2 spots free and I’m interested to see what we end up doing in that space.

I’m not advocating in any way that every choice Millward has made has been correct, however I am a little sympathetic to the situation and, although I’m not across the intricacies of the recruitment role, I am under no illusions that it’s just a matter of buy and sell. Has he made mistakes? Definitely. But I think, in the grand scheme of things, he hasn't done a bad job to date.

Your forget to mention Roosters and the NRL auditor's current and in the past and their investigations on suspicion...."fully investigated and nothing to see...well in Australia anyway"...quote from Nick

 

[Carlton]

I concur. I like Periera. I would suggest looking to NZ Union for cross-coders. Even the C-grade AB's have so much potential.

There is potentially a heap of players capable of first grade in Australia. Part of the problem is how junior reps are run. Players are identified as "special" early on before all players have matured. They are then provided better coaching and opportunities at playing at a higher level and consequently move ahead of the players not considered. By the time ( one, two or three years..) later when the non selected players have matured it is too late to force their way into the system. They are then looking to study, work and play league as a past time only.

Lump this in with how country league has been degraded , the competition from other sports and a lack of focus on junior league outside of the elite players and the problem looks more like one of development of the game not strictly a lack of talent.

 

[BLM01]

There is potentially a heap of players capable of first grade in Australia. Part of the problem is how junior reps are run. Players are identified as "special" early on before all players have matured. They are then provided better coaching and opportunities at playing at a higher level and consequently move ahead of the players not considered. By the time ( one, two or three years..) later when the non selected players have matured it is too late to force their way into the system. They are then looking to study, work and play league as a past time only.

Lump this in with how country league has been degraded , the competition from other sports and a lack of focus on junior league outside of the elite players and the problem looks more like one of development of the game not strictly a lack of talent.

Correct.. dont start me on CRL as I am heavily involved with 1 club.
The lack of support and funding from the NSWRL and in fact soon to be defunct CRL taken over by NSWRL is astounding and does start at Junior level. Senior level is affected by money demands from ex NRL and NSW Cup level players who did not make it or could not hack it. And CRL clubs need players and money from somewhere (outside of begging for local sponsorship) to form sides and stay alive as you rightly said..kids and young men and or women are seeing too many better options out there when they start playing league.

 

[Drag Queen]

There is potentially a heap of players capable of first grade in Australia. Part of the problem is how junior reps are run. Players are identified as "special" early on before all players have matured. They are then provided better coaching and opportunities at playing at a higher level and consequently move ahead of the players not considered. By the time ( one, two or three years..) later when the non selected players have matured it is too late to force their way into the system. They are then looking to study, work and play league as a past time only.

Lump this in with how country league has been degraded , the competition from other sports and a lack of focus on junior league outside of the elite players and the problem looks more like one of development of the game not strictly a lack of talent.

I agree. The reason I brought up the Kiwi side of things is because I am one. Kids over there start playing Union at pre-school. League is popular but is in a minority in comparison. You are correct the pathways to League are complicated. In NZ, the scouts travel the country and pick the young blokes who show promise in local games and improve them. One difference was when a young Jonah Lomu was poached from League to Union via a scholarship. Should bring to mind the young AB Damian McKenzie who plays both FB and five-eight. Same age as Dufty and smaller. Fearless little bugger. I'm not here to big note my mother country, but they're getting something right over there with recruitment of Union players. Might be time for scouts to start watching regional Australian NRL school teams. The talent is there, but they don't necessarily have the ability to go through the pathways that you've spoken of. Perhaps the longest soliloquy I've written on this forum. Xx

 

[Old Timer]

Other than the Roosters, Storm, and Broncos who have always been powerhouses when it comes to recruitment, who else is significantly better off than us? Newcastle are obviously pretty active right now but after 3 straight wooden spoons, they should be.

We had a poor end to the season and ended up finishing 7th, but in reality we had 1 win less than the minor premiers. So I hardly think the sky is falling.

Think we need to accept we’ll never be those 3 teams, but compared to the other 12 teams, I think we go ok in terms of how we manage our roster. Hunt, Graham, the Sims boys have all been good additions, so have Vaughan and McInnes.

We need help in the backs for sure but we’re addressing that by all accounts.

Since the Storm were stripped of the 2009 title there have been 9 premierships decided.
7 different clubs have won premierships with the only multiple winners being Storm & Roosters 2 each.
So in fact it is not just about 2 or 3 clubs only it is about positioning your club to take the best opportunities as premiership windows appear and that is what we now fail to do.
The only time we did it was 2009 when we got Bennett, won in 2010 and then we f**ked up 2011 and have been like the lost tribe of Israel wandering around the desert with Moses ever since.
People making excuses we can’t compete with the top clubs because of this and that and miss the point that we can compete and should be and for all the people that think I’m negative they fail to see how positive I really am because I actually believe we can do it and I get annoyed that we don’t and get pissed off when IMO lame excuses are offered up.

 

[Drag Queen]

Everything good smarty. Its a slow process but getting there slowly.
Thanks for you thoughts .
Much appreciated

I'm having a vodka soda right now. I'm going to dedicate the next one to you legend. Days off and child free

 

[Belta]

Well said some people on this forum have not got a clue

Dammit. This can only mean one thing. I am an ignoramus. I am one of those stupid people you are referring to. I stupidly expected a like for like replacements at worst. After losing two experienced first grade wingers, I’d hoped for better replacements or at least like for like. How stupid am I. Anyways sorry Mr Millward for being such a naysayer. My bad. I’ll crawl back into my hole, and in future be mindful of offending the intellects on this forum.

 

[Carlton]

Correct.. dont start me on CRL as I am heavily involved with 1 club.
The lack of support and funding from the NSWRL and in fact soon to be defunct CRL taken over by NSWRL is astounding and does start at Junior level. Senior level is affected by money demands from ex NRL and NSW Cup level players who did not make it or could not hack it. And CRL clubs need players and money from somewhere (outside of begging for local sponsorship) to form sides and stay alive as you rightly said..kids and young men and or women are seeing too many better options out there when they start playing league.

BLM01 I dont always agree with your position but on this I couldn't agree more. League used to be the centre of life in many country towns, which was gold, but now its becoming a thing of the past. I have a small connection with group 7 and see the effort they are putting in. The trouble is the NRL couldn't give a sh*t and I can also see players in this comp that were overlooked as juniors and yet could have progressed if given the chance. This is one of the reasons I'm down on "juniors", they are the the anointed ones and I don't have a lot of sympathy for them. I have a lot of time for the guys that could have made it but have not managed to hook into the system early enough to have a future but love the game and still play. Its about time the NRL woke up and understood that these are actually the bedrock of the game.

 

[slippery5]

Did you watch the second two games of last year’s series? Hayne was an anchor around the team’s testicles.

No, but I watched him against us.

 

[slippery5]

If we get Hayne I would play him centre. I would even release Lafai, Aitken and Mann if there were other clubs interested in them. That would then free up some money to sign another good outside back up, such as Rapana or Leilua (if they could get a release). I was thinking of something like

1 Dufty
2 Pearson/Ravalawa/Pereira
3 Leilua
4 Lomax
5 Hayne
6 Widdop
7 Hunt

or

1 Dufty
2 Pearson/Ravalawa/Pereira
3 Lomax
4 Hayne
5 Rapana
6 Widdop
7 Hunt.

If only you could resurrect yourself Frank we might get this club back to what it was.

 

[Carlton]

I agree. The reason I brought up the Kiwi side of things is because I am one. Kids over there start playing Union at pre-school. League is popular but is in a minority in comparison. You are correct the pathways to League are complicated. In NZ, the scouts travel the country and pick the young blokes who show promise in local games and improve them. One difference was when a young Jonah Lomu was poached from League to Union via a scholarship. Should bring to mind the young AB Damian McKenzie who plays both FB and five-eight. Same age as Dufty and smaller. Fearless little bugger. I'm not here to big note my mother country, but they're getting something right over there with recruitment of Union players. Might be time for scouts to start watching regional Australian NRL school teams. The talent is there, but they don't necessarily have the ability to go through the pathways that you've spoken of. Perhaps the longest soliloquy I've written on this forum. Xx

I wasn't trying to run down NZ and how they bring through union players, I was merely trying to say that there are a lot of players who could succeed but never manage to crack it as a junior and thats the end of their careers.

I have seen any number of junior rep players who dont make it and come back to play A grade. The interesting thing is that there are established A graders who are the top players. Those players coming back are good players and at the top of the A grade tree but they often are not the best players. In short there is talent that does not get picked up when they are young and then is lost to the professional game even though they are capable of going further.

 

[VodkaSaint]

I'm having a vodka soda right now. I'm going to dedicate the next one to you legend. Days off and child free

good choice of drinks