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Dragons Coach 2021 and Beyond

Who do you want to see as Dragons coach?


  • Total voters
    165

True_Believer

Juniors
Messages
1,841
Was bored this evening and was thinking about who will be our new coach for 2021 and beyond.For what it is worth all the talk of Griffin in the news today is fine by me but what i was thinking about is the the style of football we are playing now and the type of game plan a new coach might try to implement going into next year.One thing i believe in is the statistics don't lie.Like clues at a crime scene they paint the true picture of what is going on.I went to the fox sports statistics page and thought i would share some of the interesting stats of our dragons team.
Some of the stats for the dragons in comparison to where we sit on the table and compared to other teams were as follows;

Run Meters
Dragons 22632.
Leaders Eels 25317
Worst Titans 19042

This was interesting to me as i always thought we would be closer to the bottom of this table than the top but we sit in 5th position overall ahead of teams like the storm ,albeit marginally, and also ahead of the likes of the rabbitohs and the raiders.This suggests to me that we either play a style that gets us over the advantage line or our forwards are doing this better than i actually thought they were,but i suppose run meters is only relative to the ground you concede.

Run Meters Conceded
Dragons 23569
Leaders Dogs 24372
Least Panthers 19247

Here is where statistics paint the true picture.You would expect this to pretty much follow your teams position on the ladder and it mostly does with the teams conceding the least amount of meters to be at the top of the points table and vice versa but here we sit 3rd last on the table with only the Bulldogs and the Sea Eagles conceding more ground.Considering we have conceded over 4 km more than the league leaders the Panthers and teams like the Titans and Warriors concede less ground than we do you would think that an incoming coach would look at this and drastically try to improve this aspect of our game.

Line Breaks
Dragons 54
Leaders Panthers 92
Least Warriors 44

Another area where you'd think it would follow the position of the team on the ladder and it pretty much does but we find ourselves 4th last with line breaks with only a handful more than the Warriors,Bulldogs and Broncos and well off the pace of the top three unsurprisingly being The Panthers,Roosters and Storm.In my opinion we need to look at our attacking structure, a more expansive game plan and even adding players to our team who are more capable of breaking the line with speed footwork and size.

Line Breaks Conceded
Dragons 58
Most Sharks 95
Least Panthers 44

We punch above our weight here sitting in 5th position for least line breaks.This really does confirm to me what i have thought all along...that are actual defence is not the problem...the problem is our line speed.We concede too much yardage because of the defensive pattern to sit back ,maintain a straight defensive line, and not worry about line speed

Offloads
Dragons 114
Leaders Eels 208
Least Rabbitohs 106

Interesting here with the eels 50 more offloads than the second placed team in the storm.We sit 2nd last on this table and i am sure that that is no surprise to anyone on this forum.Something else that is no surprise is that a Bennett coached team sits last on the table for offloads but what was surprising was the Panthers sit 3rd last with 119.I suppose this just illustrates the type of game plan you are trying to implement with the Panthers obviously able to roll over the advantage line with big fast forwards and quick play the balls

Tackled In the opposition 20
Dragons 375
Leaders Panthers 562
Least Broncos 347

This is such a telling statistic for mine.It generally dictates the outcomes of games.If you knock on the door for long enough you'll eventually get inside.It's a credit to the Roosters attacking ability that they can sit worse than midfield on this table in 10th position and lead the points for table ( unbelievable).
We sit 2nd last with this statistic with only the Broncos worse and even the Titans ahead of us.I believe the fact we concede so much ground is key to this because if your constantly bringing the ball of your own try line it is hard to get into the oppositions 20 when teams are going set for set.

Errors
Dragons 145
Least Panthers 132
Most Titans 193

Probably really shows what type of structure you play with and can be misleading as the teams that made the 2nd and 3rd most errors are the Eels and the Storm.We sit 2nd with only the Panthers making less errors than us.When you look at this statistic other than the Panthers it reads like an upside down table with the teams at the bottom of the table making less errors and the teams at the top making more.I think this is easy to explain as the teams that are constantly having to bring the ball out of trouble tucking it under their arm and trying just to complete sets and the teams getting into attacking position willing to throw it around more to try and score points.We sit 2nd on the table for least errors but this really just shows we are not getting into position to attack enough probably due to the fact that we concede so much ground and are constantly bringing the ball off our own line and not getting into position to play more adventurously.Sitting at the top of the table and with the least amount of errors as the Panthers do really does showcase their dominance.

Missed Tackles
Dragons 311
Least Dragons 311
Most Sharks 473

Well if it continues this way at the end of the seasons we will at least be able to say we won something.Again this demonstrates that our actual defence is good we have missed less tackles than the Roosters and Panthers but the key is improving line speed while maintaining tackle effectiveness.This i am sure will be a top priority for our new coach whoever that may be.

Obviously i believe that our new coach will look at these statistics when considering what areas of our play needs tweaking and improving.I think we need a coach who can implement a more attacking mindset with the ball ,empowering the team to play with more confidence and a mindset of looking to promote the ball more than what we currently do.We need a coach that will work on our line speed in defence,to change our defensive structure from being one that sits back and waits for the opposition to come too them to being one that looks to create pressure on opposing teams with line speed and aggression.I heard on 100% footy last night that the club are looking for a disciplinarian who will instil a defensive mindset and i hope that the club is directly talking about our line speed because i think that is a key area for us to improve.

Having a read of those statistics in full it really does ram home to me how well the Panthers are going but still when you hear people talk about who will win the comp they want to talk about the Roosters and the Storm which is fair enough considering their record and of course either of these teams could win the comp but for me at the moment the panthers,even though they sit atop the ladder,are not getting the recognition from the fans that they deserve,they really are flying. One thing i have learnt in life is follow the money and the bookies have the Panthers as favourites for a reason,the statistics suggest that they are well ahead of everyone else.

Anyway i am looking forward to the club announcing our new coach soon and one thing i can say with some certainty is that whoever it will be, it will be massive improvement on what we have had to put up with the last seven years.

For what it's worth, Griffin for mine...Young or Head assistant, take ya pick....but i still have an open mind...

THE ONLY WAY IS UP....

Would also like to see things like play the ball speed, 6 again for and against, penalties etc. There's a few other stats that would impact some of the stats you've highlighted.
 

possm

Coach
Messages
15,960
Craig Young currently on a leave of absence from BOD duties due to Dean sitting in the interim head coaches role (I assume that Craig will ultimately have no say/vote in terms of the current process to assign a head coach for 2021?)

Dean Young (and certain higher profile players in the team) are currently endorsing Anthony Griffin.

In the event that Anthony Griffin gets the job (and I would say the thermostat is pretty warm on this at the moment)... that almost certainly means that Dean Young moves back into an assistant coach role & Shane Flanagan + James Shepherd will move on from their roles on staff.

Craig Young returns to BOD duties.

---

We could do much worse (and have done so previously) than appointing Hook as our head coach for 2021 and beyond. But part of me still believes the better long term play is on Flanagan & Shepherd.

Is this whole scenario a nepotist move?

Does Craig want to vacate his board position until the end of 2021?

Are Flanagan and Shepherd too much of a threat to the 'old boys regime'? Hook coming in still gives Dean a longer term play at the head coaches role, whereas if he stays interim for 2021 (where he'll be under massive pressure to get the results - and is more likely to fail through inexperience), then he is unlikely to be retained on staff for 2022 and beyond (and Dad won't be able to save him at board level).
It won't surprise many on this forum to hear me say that if Griffin is appointed head coach, in my opinion, he will be the best coach we will have since Bennett.

What I don't understand is why Young as the assistant. Surely he has to take some of the blame for the performance of the team over the past 6 years? Why can't Young get an assistant's job with some other club, like Hornby did at Souths?

I for one would rather Griffin pick his own staff in order that we can have a fresh start; no favorites, no nepotism, no direct contact with the Board.
 

boardlumps62

Juniors
Messages
1,481
It won't surprise many on this forum to hear me say that if Griffin is appointed head coach, in my opinion, he will be the best coach we will have since Bennett.

What I don't understand is why Young as the assistant. Surely he has to take some of the blame for the performance of the team over the past 6 years? Why can't Young get an assistant's job with some other club, like Hornby did at Souths?

I for one would rather Griffin pick his own staff in order that we can have a fresh start; no favorites, no nepotism, no direct contact with the Board.
Fair comment.
 

Mjab

Juniors
Messages
968
It won't surprise many on this forum to hear me say that if Griffin is appointed head coach, in my opinion, he will be the best coach we will have since Bennett.

What I don't understand is why Young as the assistant. Surely he has to take some of the blame for the performance of the team over the past 6 years? Why can't Young get an assistant's job with some other club, like Hornby did at Souths?

I for one would rather Griffin pick his own staff in order that we can have a fresh start; no favorites, no nepotism, no direct contact with the Board.
yeah, totally see your point on this
Maybe Young has some component talent but to be honest everyone is excited because he simply was honest at a pre and post match interview and a TV interview , so what , I could be brutally honest and say a lot more .
In reality he has yet to do anything good or exciting to date
Defense last year, attack early this year , both total fails
Trained by the peanut, teams selection and last weeks game plan pretty similar to previous.
Yes he has been part of the problem , now for a number of years.
So I can see your point Possm, why reward someone who actually has done nothing
What do these so called experts or other coaches have as evidence he will be good. hes a good bloke and ex player ie more of the peanut

What job is Hook going to give him, he has failed at defense and attack in the past and if I was head coach I would want to select my team of coaches and other personel as Hook will be holding the can if it goes to shit. I guess Hook has worked with him to a very limited degree.

we are also assuming he will be an assistant but who knows , Hook may decide otherwise?
I did hear that at panthers the main issue was Hooks interaction with coaching staff more than issues with players.
 

possm

Coach
Messages
15,960
yeah, totally see your point on this
Maybe Young has some component talent but to be honest everyone is excited because he simply was honest at a pre and post match interview and a TV interview , so what , I could be brutally honest and say a lot more .
In reality he has yet to do anything good or exciting to date
Defense last year, attack early this year , both total fails
Trained by the peanut, teams selection and last weeks game plan pretty similar to previous.
Yes he has been part of the problem , now for a number of years.
So I can see your point Possm, why reward someone who actually has done nothing
What do these so called experts or other coaches have as evidence he will be good. hes a good bloke and ex player ie more of the peanut

What job is Hook going to give him, he has failed at defense and attack in the past and if I was head coach I would want to select my team of coaches and other personel as Hook will be holding the can if it goes to shit. I guess Hook has worked with him to a very limited degree.

we are also assuming he will be an assistant but who knows , Hook may decide otherwise?
I did hear that at panthers the main issue was Hooks interaction with coaching staff more than issues with players.
And then there is still the matter of Millward, the Director of everything. Griffin will want this position reporting to him as the head coach rather than reporting to the CEO.
 

blue bags

First Grade
Messages
9,659
Hornby, why , why , why ? Boys club needs old members to resign up? .We need outside influences not previous cast offs.
why not keep hornby as an assistant, and keep flanno aswell
head coach GRIFFO, assistants DEANO, FLANNO, HORNBY
whats your thoughts
 

Mjab

Juniors
Messages
968
why not keep hornby as an assistant, and keep flanno aswell
head coach GRIFFO, assistants DEANO, FLANNO, HORNBY
whats your thoughts

I am very sure Flanno is leaving.

In a similar eg to Young , what has Hornby done to deserve the gig

If Hook gets gig , he should choose assistants to be fair to him. If he chooses Young fine. Hornby should stay at Souths for the time being and learn Bennett and then learn from JD
 

Mjab

Juniors
Messages
968
The other basic issue someone else raised recently is that average -good players expect to be given an assistants job , straight to first grade assistant.

In reality they need to learn as an assistant in CC or JFlegg moving up as the skill up if they are any good to head coach CC , then assistant to first grade then maybe head coach first grade
A lot of these assistants like Young and Hornby may not have been a head coach of a lower grade team
This is where you learn to be head coach. Its a different job to being an assistant.
I would actually like to see Head given an assistant gig .
Serious people would want to be mentored under great coaches like Bennett, Bellamy or Robbo. You need to leave clubs to get better, but train under a peanut doing Dragons footy.
 

True_Believer

Juniors
Messages
1,841
And then there is still the matter of Millward, the Director of everything. Griffin will want this position reporting to him as the head coach rather than reporting to the CEO.

Like the selection committee, Millward taking over negotiations in recruitment was put in place to take the pressure off Mary.

There's no reason why this wouldn't change back once a new coach is appointed.
 

Dragonslayer

First Grade
Messages
7,815
My question with Griffin would be:

Would you take on the role (assuming a 2yr contract), knowing your assistant is the 'preferred' option?. Knowing also, you wont (probably) be offered a renewal after that?
 

St Georgio

Juniors
Messages
2,283
My question with Griffin would be:

Would you take on the role (assuming a 2yr contract), knowing your assistant is the 'preferred' option?. Knowing also, you wont (probably) be offered a renewal after that?
Really Dean Young as preferred Option, OMG, he needs to learn off someone other than McGregor, DY needs someone like a Griffin, Flanno or a Wane, before given the Opportunity and as much as I would love Wane to be given a crack, I think he threw all energy into the Cowboys Position, therefore the Dragons would be focusing there attention to someone like Griiffin as I reckon he has thrown all his energy into the Dragons job.
 

Gareth67

First Grade
Messages
8,834
I hope that a 2 year contract is offered with an option the clubs favor . The Mary years have completely destroyed what was once a very competitive team - that being the Bennett era .

Therefore whom ever does finally gets the coaching role will need time to build the Dragons up to a standard where they are capable of challenging for the silver trophy at season’s end . Of course it will take a couple of years to do this , but a couple of semi-final appearances along the way will finally give the long suffering Dragons supporters real hope for the future .
 

be55

Juniors
Messages
614
Would also like to see things like play the ball speed, 6 again for and against, penalties etc. There's a few other stats that would impact some of the stats you've highlighted.
absolutely mate...you are correct to say you need all stats to get the full picture...if your interested with statistics i got the ones i was quoting by googling "nrl premiership fox sports stats" clicking on that and then clicking on teams...you can see heaps more stats there and i would have included more but the post was so long as it was and i didn't want to bore anyone and also i was getting tired at the time...
 
Last edited:

True_Believer

Juniors
Messages
1,841
absolutely mate...you are correct to say you need all stats to get the full picture...if your interested with statistics i got the ones i was quoting by googling "nrl premiership fox sports stats" clicking on that and then clicking on teams...you can see heaps more stats there and i would have included more but the post was so long as it was i didn't want to bore anyone and i was getting tired at the time...

Wall of text crits for over 9000 :p
 

Batman251

Juniors
Messages
264
And then there is still the matter of Millward, the Director of everything. Griffin will want this position reporting to him as the head coach rather than reporting to the CEO.
And don’t forget that Haran guy too, he seems to weld a lot of power.
 

True_Believer

Juniors
Messages
1,841
absolutely mate...you are correct to say you need all stats to get the full picture...if your interested with statistics i got the ones i was quoting by googling "nrl premiership fox sports stats" clicking on that and then clicking on teams...you can see heaps more stats there and i would have included more but the post was so long as it was i didn't want to bore anyone and i was getting tired at the time...

I think another issue we have at the moment is ruck control. I did a quick comparison of play the ball times for our games (unfortunately no box option here for me to post it) but rarely are we quicker than the opposition. I think this contributes to us back pedalling and contributes significantly to our meters conceded.
 

boardlumps62

Juniors
Messages
1,481
I think another issue we have at the moment is ruck control. I did a quick comparison of play the ball times for our games (unfortunately no box option here for me to post it) but rarely are we quicker than the opposition. I think this contributes to us back pedalling and contributes significantly to our meters conceded.
IMO a big part of winning or controlling the ruck is winning the wrestle (eek did I say that). We just haven't go it right ask Vaughn about that if you don't agree. Now Melbourne and Roosters (maybe Penrith) on the other hand....
 

True_Believer

Juniors
Messages
1,841
IMO a big part of winning or controlling the ruck is winning the wrestle (eek did I say that). We just haven't go it right ask Vaughn about that if you don't agree. Now Melbourne and Roosters (maybe Penrith) on the other hand....

Yeah, this is what the speed of the play ball is telling me. We aren't controlling it well enough and our "wrestle" is ineffective. The Broncos even cracked 3 seconds against us (2.98). That was the quickest play the ball speed against us this season.
 

be55

Juniors
Messages
614
I think another issue we have at the moment is ruck control. I did a quick comparison of play the ball times for our games (unfortunately no box option here for me to post it) but rarely are we quicker than the opposition. I think this contributes to us back pedalling and contributes significantly to our meters conceded.
ruck control is so important mate...it's why teams started employing wrestling coaches and grappling coaches...coaches know that if you win the ruck you're half way there...like i said in my post you can't sit back in the defensive line,waiting for the opposition to come to you, all because you are worried about keeping that straight line in defence,and hope to win the ruck...in other words if you have good line speed in defence you are more of a chance to win the ruck...line speed in defence is a massive area we could improve upon and i hope our new coach sees that...we should be going to the opposition in defence not waiting for them to come to us...
 

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