DUGAN NEXT

[dragoninmexico]

Just about the Dugan rumour to the Dogs . This broke on friday night on social media about 6pm and spread pretty quickly . By about 8.30pm Dugan himself had come out on twitter to say that it wasn't true and he is working towards extending his stay at the Dragons. I'm not saying take this as fact just that's what i saw and i don't really believe anyone anymore.

 

[SGMax]

Just read an article on Sportal where "Hopoate is only on a $150,000 a year deal with Canterbury and will be able to earn a much higher salary at the Tigers...."
We need to find a way to get Dugan for a quarter of his real value just like the Bulldogs did with Hoppa.

Clearly something shonky going on as I know Hopoate was on big $ at Parra.
Why would Bulldogs release him if it only saves them so little on the cap?
Keep him as depth as thats almost the amount you sign juniors for!
If Parra are still partly paying Hopoate, then why would they release him to a rival only picking up so little of his contract?

NRL should not be allowing deals like this to go on.
It gives some teams a huge unfair advantage and makes a mockery of the hopes of some supporters' hopes for their teams to compete.

Dragons are struggling to re-sign their existing squad let alone adding new talent to it....and thats after several poor years.

 

[R&WTILLIDIE]

Just read an article on Sportal where "Hopoate is only on a $150,000 a year deal with Canterbury and will be able to earn a much higher salary at the Tigers...."
We need to find a way to get Dugan for a quarter of his real value just like the Bulldogs did with Hoppa.

Clearly something shonky going on as I know Hopoate was on big $ at Parra.
Why would Bulldogs release him if it only saves them so little on the cap?
Keep him as depth as thats almost the amount you sign juniors for!
If Parra are still partly paying Hopoate, then why would they release him to a rival only picking up so little of his contract?

NRL should not be allowing deals like this to go on.
It gives some teams a huge unfair advantage and makes a mockery of the hopes of some supporters' hopes for their teams to compete.

Dragons are struggling to re-sign their existing squad let alone adding new talent to it....and thats after several poor years.

Some good points here...Maybe Dugan can turn to God and not play on Sunday. That'll reduce his price. It just goes to show that we have some good players in our team that are highly sort after, yet our team has performed very poorly the last few years. Who do you think is to blame for this? the coaching? the other players not pulling their weight?...seriously...why have we been so shit?

And why do we always seem to go after Canberra players when Canberra hasn't set the world on fire in the past few years either?

 

[Kuro]

And why do we always seem to go after Canberra players when Canberra hasn't set the world on fire in the past few years either?

Weyman, Dugan, Vaughan, Thompson is why..

 

[possm]

Hayne is in the same boat as Foran comes with more baggage than a 747 bound for Bangkok

Dugan and Packer came with baggage and the Club handled it fine.
The Dogs have to make room before signing the likes of Foran and a fullback. This would be the reason for the delay.

So in my opinion we have lost Dugan to the Dogs or Titans, depending what Hayne decides. We should move on Hayne asap and withdraw our offer to Dugan.

 

[Gareth67]

" Like the sands through an hourglass , so are the days of our Duges "

For pity sake Josh , your turned this into a bluudy soap-opera , make up your mind , so as the Dragons can move on .

 

[possm]

Just read an article on Sportal where "Hopoate is only on a $150,000 a year deal with Canterbury and will be able to earn a much higher salary at the Tigers...."
We need to find a way to get Dugan for a quarter of his real value just like the Bulldogs did with Hoppa.

Clearly something shonky going on as I know Hopoate was on big $ at Parra.
Why would Bulldogs release him if it only saves them so little on the cap?
Keep him as depth as thats almost the amount you sign juniors for!
If Parra are still partly paying Hopoate, then why would they release him to a rival only picking up so little of his contract?

NRL should not be allowing deals like this to go on.
It gives some teams a huge unfair advantage and makes a mockery of the hopes of some supporters' hopes for their teams to compete.

Dragons are struggling to re-sign their existing squad let alone adding new talent to it....and thats after several poor years.

And some on here deny our recruiting is in a mess.

Again Hoppa was on a TPA. The Dogs don't want him anymore and his TPA dollars will probably used to sign Dugan. The same goes for Reynolds/Foran and one of their forwards/Woods.

No one in the NRL will investigate or try and track the TPAs.

 

[hazzbeen]

Lets forget what baggage Hayne has if we have to pay big money for Duges to stay and same money to sign Hayne it would be Hayne for me .Hayne is a match winner can turn a game on its head when needed , can score a try from anywhere , can setup play is a strong defender . Duges yea good defender , dosnt score many tries for a fullback dosnt setup play . Duges is good but IMO Hayne is a Athlete and far better footballer than our Duges .Hunt , Widdop , Hayne ......

 

[TomRedVRiver]

And some on here deny our recruiting is in a mess.

Again Hoppa was on a TPA. The Dogs don't want him anymore and his TPA dollars will probably used to sign Dugan. The same goes for Reynolds/Foran and one of their forwards/Woods.

No one in the NRL will investigate or try and track the TPAs.

Our recruitment is not in a mess and it's impossible to say right now if Dugan is staying or leaving. Everything you are saying and have been saying is complete speculation.

We have re-signed De Belin, Host, Widdop, Field, Herbert, Lawrie, Frizell, Aitken and Leilua whilst signing players like Hunt, Vaughan, McInnes, Kerr and Macdonald.

I would say our recruitment is doing just fine.

 

[R&WTILLIDIE]

Weyman, Dugan, Vaughan, Thompson is why..

Fair enough...they're all good players. But of all those players, only Weyman won a grand final. And he was recruited with a whole range of other players from other clubs such as Boyd, and Costigan.

Since then, Dugan, Vaughan, and Thompson were all on the outer at a club that has been as poor as us in the past few years.

 

[possm]

Lets forget what baggage Hayne has if we have to pay big money for Duges to stay and same money to sign Hayne it would be Hayne for me .Hayne is a match winner can turn a game on its head when needed , can score a try from anywhere , can setup play is a strong defender . Duges yea good defender , dosnt score many tries for a fullback dosnt setup play . Duges is good but IMO Hayne is a Athlete and far better footballer than our Duges .Hunt , Widdop , Hayne ......

Hayne has:
A good passing game.
A good long and short kicking game.
An ability to kick goals.
An ability to kick field goals.
Is a good tackler.
Good speed.
The x factor.

Get Hynes manager to convince his TPA sponsor to continue supporting Hayne. Mr Black - his sponsor - is a multi millionaire and a huge Dragons fan.

 

[hazzbeen]

Hayne has:
A good passing game.
A good long and short kicking game.
An ability to kick goals.
An ability to kick field goals.
Is a good tackler.
Good speed.
The x factor.

Get Hynes manager to convince his TPA sponsor to continue supporting Hayne. Mr Black - his sponsor - is a multi millionaire and a huge Dragons fan.

Possm Id take him ...........

 

[kenz272]

dugan interviewed by james hooper today asked ....are you any closer to resolving where you'll be next season??? ...."i'm hoping it will be done pretty soon just trying to work out the last few chinks and get something sorted'......for me its just about playing good footy and letting my manager and the club's management to sort that out " is your preference still to stay in the red v???? .... "yeah definitely i've come out publicly and said that i'd love to stay and they've said they want to keep me and as i've said its about working those last few chinks out"

 

[Old Kogarah Boy 1]

" Like the sands of an hourglass , so are the days of our Duges "

For pity sake Josh , your turned this into a bluudy soap-opera , make up your mind , so as the Dragons can move on .

Cut ! Cut ! ........... someone call makeup!
Ok, Take 47 .........Dugan to sign contract, smile please!

 

[denis preston]

Our recruitment is not in a mess and it's impossible to say right now if Dugan is staying or leaving. Everything you are saying and have been saying is complete speculation.

We have re-signed De Belin, Host, Widdop, Field, Herbert, Lawrie, Frizell, Aitken and Leilua whilst signing players like Hunt, Vaughan, McInnes, Kerr and Macdonald.

I would say our recruitment is doing just fine.

Come on Possm , we would love your response to this ?

 

[possm]

Come on Possm , we would love your response to this ?

Really Denis Preston - I used to have a friend with that name, lived in Bondi. What you have me say that I haven't already said.

It is my opinion that the Club has hired Millward only because he is an old boy. I have already said that it is my opinion we would have avoided this situation if we started signing Dugan and Widdop at around the time Hunt was signed, in fact better before Hunt was sign because then there would not be a reference to 1m contracts.

So we start with around 3m off our cap and work through the first grade extensions and then juniors and fringe first graders. Very little controversy about some juniors and fringe first graders not signed until the NRL give a final figure on the cap.

In my opinion Millward did it back the front and probably ended up paying more than he expected. He counted on Aitken, Field and a few other juniors being ready for first grade. I'm afraid that is not how it works. You really need for the juniors to demonstrate they are ready for first grade and that has not be done to date.

By going from bottom to top, the question will be, is there enough cap to sign some of our key players.
By going from top to bottom, the question is a choice between some fringe first grade players and some juniors.

 

[TomRedVRiver]

Really Denis Preston - I used to have a friend with that name, lived in Bondi. What you have me say that I haven't already said.

It is my opinion that the Club has hired Millward only because he is an old boy. I have already said that it is my opinion we would have avoided this situation if we started signing Dugan and Widdop at around the time Hunt was signed, in fact better before Hunt was sign because then there would not be a reference to 1m contracts.

So we start with around 3m off our cap and work through the first grade extensions and then juniors and fringe first graders. Very little controversy about some juniors and fringe first graders not signed until the NRL give a final figure on the cap.

In my opinion Millward did it back the front and probably ended up paying more than he expected. He counted on Aitken, Field and a few other juniors being ready for first grade. I'm afraid that is not how it works. You really need for the juniors to demonstrate they are ready for first grade and that has not be done to date.

By going from bottom to top, the question will be, is there enough cap to sign some of our key players.
By going from top to bottom, the question is a choice between some fringe first grade players and some juniors.

I hear what you're saying possm and it's always a pleasure to debate with you, let that be known, nothing but respect here.

However I would argue that you need to think back to around the time when negotiations between Hunt and the club were taking place. The season had not kicked off yet, so the club were basing its opinions on last year's form and to be honest with you, Widdop wasn't exactly putting his hand up to be a priority re-signing. By Widdop's standards, he was poor last year. The squad as a whole were poor but Widdop in particular was going sideways in attack and not showing an ounce of the form he's showing this year.
If I was the club, I wouldn't have made his retention a priority before the start of the year. He had to play for his contract and he has done that remarkably. Hats off to him.

Dugan on the other hand was seen as a centre so there wasn't a massive priority over his head as well. To be fair to Duges, he has played well for his contract and he too deserves an extension.

In relation to what you're saying about our juniors, you don't just abandon them because you're not sure they're going to make it. Aitken, Host, Leilua, Field etc would have been signed for chips. It's a small price to pay for players who show as much promise as they do. If it works out, jackpot. If it doesn't, it's only a small dent.

The club had a clear direction, sign an elite halfback and lock up our juniors, which they have done. They were right to hold off on certain players to see how they progressed this year. Besides, it's a little extra incentive for the players to show what they're really capable of.

 

[possm]

I hear what you're saying possm and it's always a pleasure to debate with you, let that be known, nothing but respect here.

However I would argue that you need to think back to around the time when negotiations between Hunt and the club were taking place. The season had not kicked off yet, so the club were basing its opinions on last year's form and to be honest with you, Widdop wasn't exactly putting his hand up to be a priority re-signing. By Widdop's standards, he was poor last year. The squad as a whole were poor but Widdop in particular was going sideways in attack and not showing an ounce of the form he's showing this year.
If I was the club, I wouldn't have made his retention a priority before the start of the year. He had to play for his contract and he has done that remarkably. Hats off to him.

Dugan on the other hand was seen as a centre so there wasn't a massive priority over his head as well. To be fair to Duges, he has played well for his contract and he too deserves an extension.

In relation to what you're saying about our juniors, you don't just abandon them because you're not sure they're going to make it. Aitken, Host, Leilua, Field etc would have been signed for chips. It's a small price to pay for players who show as much promise as they do. If it works out, jackpot. If it doesn't, it's only a small dent.

The club had a clear direction, sign an elite halfback and lock up our juniors, which they have done. They were right to hold off on certain players to see how they progressed this year. Besides, it's a little extra incentive for the players to show what they're really capable of.

I too like debating with you. Firstly I agree with you that Widdop had a bad year, but Dugan had a good year in 2016. So the first thing is to consider what the Club was thinking in early Jan 2017. We don't know and can only guess that the Club did not think Widdop or Dugan was worth big money; most certainly not the money Widdop has managed to get and that Dugan is asking for.

The next fact to consider is that these two players and the rest of the leadership group along with Mary and others agreed on a change of playing style and a power game plan. I'd imagine that they put their thoughts into action and would have practiced it a bit before the Christmas break. With all players and coach excited, there would have been a belief that under this new style of play, the team would be very competitive and as an aside, Dugan and Widdop along with our forward pack would be very effective.

Widdop
A straight forward deal offer / counter offer and so on until they reach agreement. Make it known we want to sign our marquee players first. Millward would not have been thinking of Widdop's form during 2016 but how he would go under the new style. I feel sure he had a good read on Widdop's worth but tried very hard to get him at a bargain. No other Club would have been chasing him because the memory would have been the 2016 form. Very little competition so sign him quickly. I would think he would have been signed at around 750k at that time - around the time Hunt was signed but without knowing Hunt was signed and how much he was signed for..

Dugan
Most of what I've said above about Widdop also applies to Dugan. The biggest mistake was to mention a figure for a centre. Millward should just have tabled an offer of 700k and considered Dugan's reply and negotiated if he wanted to keep Dugan. I doubt Dugan would have been offered a contract of 850k however, the Hunt price of 1m and the mention of Dugan's price being based on a centre position, really threw a spanner in the works. Thus the current delay.

Meanwhile 5 moths later, valued first grade player's extensions are being held up and open to be targeted by other Clubs who may offer more than the Dragons can afford under the cap.

Signing from top down would avoid all of this fuss and probably save the Club some valuable cap space.

Just as an aside, when I started my business up about 25 years ago I went about staffing this way;
Hired a GM
The GM and I hired a Sales Manager and Chief Engineer
The Sales Manager, GM and I hired sales staff
The Chief Engineer, GM and I hired Engineers
The GM hired Admin staff and accounts staff

For a start up company this was an efficient way of going about the recruitment of staff. Starting from the top down. I just could not imagine hiring the admin and account staff first. Or hiring engineers and trying to manage them while looking for a Chief Engineer.

Hope you can see where I'm coming from.

 

[Dragon Revival]

Given that we still have 21 players unsigned and the salary cap is increasing there would appear to be
considerable money available to resign Dugan, Lafai, Mann and Packer. I would think that close to $2 million would sign them all up leaving about the same amount of money to sign the lesser lights. I believe it was right to sign our top juniors early as there is some top talent there available at reasonable dollars based on their 2016 not 2017 form the latter perhaps being at a higher grade level.

 

[dragonssamy61]

Lets forget what baggage Hayne has if we have to pay big money for Duges to stay and same money to sign Hayne it would be Hayne for me .Hayne is a match winner can turn a game on its head when needed , can score a try from anywhere , can setup play is a strong defender . Duges yea good defender , dosnt score many tries for a fullback dosnt setup play . Duges is good but IMO Hayne is a Athlete and far better footballer than our Duges .Hunt , Widdop , Hayne ......

Hazz
Agree but hayne needs to be fully committed.
A fully focus hayne we could have the premiership we want.
Be if he comes and is not fully committed he will split the club and set us back years.
Just as what he did a parramatta and titans.
So he is a mybe for me.
Would prefer we give mann a proper go a fb .
Also Jai Field may be ready by then.