Dugan/Widdop/Marshall/Farrah Spine??

[The Nick]

The Nick

Plenty of post match interviews with Potter and Taylor where he looked like he sucked a 1,000 lemons.

Got as far as here and stopped reading. IMO you've adequately demonstrated you're no expert on this subject. You don't know the bloke, had absolutely nothing to do with him but you can confidently say he has a bad attitude and is divisive based on a couple of TV interviews you watched. I guess Laurie Daley must have missed those interviews....

Understand your post perfectly.

Your argument is that Thurston allowed Coote to have a great year as defences were supposedly focusing on him. Yet Thurston won every award available, including a premiership. His try assists were 6 more than anyone else in the NRL. One would argue he's had the most space he's had in years.

Unless NRL defences have become geniused, I would argue that Coote and his 15 try assists allowed Thurston the most room he's ever seen.

I said defenses TARGET Thurston, are you seriously saying that they don't!?

Please note there is a distinct difference between TARGETING someone and effectively SHUTTING THEM DOWN. The fact that Thurston can receive such heavy attention week in, week out and still keep producing such impressive stats is testament to how good Thurston is, not Coote.

But let's just go with your theory - opposition defences were so worried about Coote they forgot Thurston was even on the field.... I'm sure many good experts would back you up on that one....

 

[Dragon66]

Please note there is a distinct difference between TARGETING someone and effectively SHUTTING THEM DOWN. The fact that Thurston can receive such heavy attention week in, week out and still keep producing such impressive stats is testament to how good Thurston is, not Coote.

But let's just go with your theory - opposition defences were so worried about Coote they forgot Thurston was even on the field.... I'm sure many good experts would back you up on that one....

Nick, some how you are missing the point. Thurston is an outstanding individual player and is heavily targeted by the defence, BUT the fact that the Cowboys have two more great attacking ball players in Coote and Morgan means that they can't just focus only on Thurston or they will be burnt by the other two. Just as we saw in the grand final.

It means that opposing defences have to be more aware of the shutting down all three players. Not an easy thing to do.

In our case only Marshall and Widdop were capable of opening up a defensive line with evasive running and ball skills, but the problem was that they took turns at being the strike player which meant the opposition defence still only had to focus on one player at a time.

Dugan, being a power runner, meant all you had to do was get numbers in the tackle to stop him because the odds of an offload were very slim indeed.

In my opinion Thurston is an even better player because of the quality of Morgan and Coote to create more questions for the opposing defence.

 

[giboz71]

Got as far as here and stopped reading. IMO you've adequately demonstrated you're no expert on this subject. You don't know the bloke, had absolutely nothing to do with him but you can confidently say he has a bad attitude and is divisive based on a couple of TV interviews you watched. I guess Laurie Daley must have missed those interviews....



I said defenses TARGET Thurston, are you seriously saying that they don't!?

Please note there is a distinct difference between TARGETING someone and effectively SHUTTING THEM DOWN. The fact that Thurston can receive such heavy attention week in, week out and still keep producing such impressive stats is testament to how good Thurston is, not Coote.

But let's just go with your theory - opposition defences were so worried about Coote they forgot Thurston was even on the field.... I'm sure many good experts would back you up on that one....

Of course they target him, never disputed that. But having a 3rd playmaker spread defences more thinly, which meant he probably had more room than he expected. Are you arguing he didn't have a career year? He won just about every award on the planet.

End of the day, I think being on the field together helped them both and more importantly showed the value of a ball playing fullback. With regards to Coote, agree he is far from elite but look at what he brought to the Cowboys just by his ability to pass the f**king ball...an option we don't have with our fullback.

And just like Thurston, I bet our halves (who aren't mugs btw) would benefit immensely if they had the benefit of an extra playmaker.

 

[BrissyRedV]

Nick, some how you are missing the point. Thurston is an outstanding individual player and is heavily targeted by the defence, BUT the fact that the Cowboys have two more great attacking ball players in Coote and Morgan means that they can't just focus only on Thurston or they will be burnt by the other two. Just as we saw in the grand final.

It means that opposing defences have to be more aware of the shutting down all three players. Not an easy thing to do.

In our case only Marshall and Widdop were capable of opening up a defensive line with evasive running and ball skills, but the problem was that they took turns at being the strike player which meant the opposition defence still only had to focus on one player at a time.

Dugan, being a power runner, meant all you had to do was get numbers in the tackle to stop him because the odds of an offload were very slim indeed.

In my opinion Thurston is an even better player because of the quality of Morgan and Coote to create more questions from the opposing defence.

Exactly. No one is knocking the class of Thurston but his job is made a whole heap easier when he has 2 other players in the critical spine positions to take the pressure off himself at times during the game. This just highlights how important it is to have those 3 playmakers in the spine positions. Both our halves had very good numbers when it comes to line breaks and try assists but we didn't have a very contribution from both the hooker and fullbacjfullback in this regard

 

[giboz71]

Exactly. No one is knocking the class of Thurston but his job is made a whole heap easier when he has 2 other players in the critical spine positions to take the pressure off himself at times during the game. This just highlights how important it is to have those 3 playmakers in the spine positions. Both our halves had very good numbers when it comes to line breaks and try assists but we didn't have a very contribution from both the hooker and fullbacjfullback in this regard

Bingo. I'm glad someone gets it.

 

[Old Timer]

Got as far as here and stopped reading. IMO you've adequately demonstrated you're no expert on this subject. You don't know the bloke, had absolutely nothing to do with him but you can confidently say he has a bad attitude and is divisive based on a couple of TV interviews you watched. I guess Laurie Daley must have missed those interviews....

You should read the full post and stop being dismissive of people that put an alternate view to yours.

You are correct in that I do not know him however I am more than capable of making an observation of people's behaviour.

You want to hold the line that anything written that is adverse in its opinion of RF is mere hear say.

Now you want me to accept your assumption that Laurie Daley has something to do with this arguement.

Daley is a boofhead and has his own boys club with the SOO team and RF fits straight into that. Daley is the bloke that picks Pearce long before the SOO so not too much crediability there.

Anyway we are talking about RF's behaviour / attitude at club level and that is where all his issues really are and that is what has been reported on.

Three tumultuos periods re coaches at WT in a very short period of time and the one constant is RF but he in your opinion plays no part in it please dont insult your own intelligence.

 

[Vasilevsky]

I'm not sure what has happened to a lot of Dragons supporters posting here. Seems to be some deep seated psychological problems.

Coote is better than Dugan. Dragons shouldn't sign Robbie Farah because he is an Origin player and because he and Gordan Tallis don't get along. The player who creates most of the tries is the one to blame for the attacking problems. Any player poached from Melbourne, i.e. a player Melbourne didn't want to fight for, is automatically better than players the Dragons already have on the books. Wayne Bennett, a enemy coach, is 'a messiah' and etc etc.

Some really sick homies..........

 

[Mr Red]

Understand your post perfectly.

Your argument is that Thurston allowed Coote to have a great year as defences were supposedly focusing on him. Yet Thurston won every award available, including a premiership. His try assists were 6 more than anyone else in the NRL. One would argue he's had the most space he's had in years.

Unless NRL defences have become geniused, I would argue that Coote and his 15 try assists allowed Thurston the most room he's ever seen.

add to this there was a general consensus this season from most experts that with Coote at the back adding an extra dimension and ball playing option, Thurston was able to pick and choose when to inject himself into the attack, rather then be the focus point like in previous years. this in turn made Thurston more dangerous and i guess his try assists stats reflect that.
I'm not sure if there are stats on this but it could be fair to say that Thurston probably averaged less touches per game this year but had a higher conversion of try assists.

 

[giboz71]

I'm not sure what has happened to a lot of Dragons supporters posting here. Seems to be some deep seated psychological problems.

Coote is better than Dugan. Dragons shouldn't sign Robbie Farah because he is an Origin player and because he and Gordan Tallis don't get along. The player who creates most of the tries is the one to blame for the attacking problems. Any player poached from Melbourne, i.e. a player Melbourne didn't want to fight for, is automatically better than players the Dragons already have on the books. Wayne Bennett, a enemy coach, is 'a messiah' and etc etc.

Some really sick homies..........

No one says Coote is better than Dugan. The statement was Coote and his skills gave the Cowboys a better shot of winning (evidenced by their premiership).

But of course let's focus on the individual instead of the team. Coz somehow, people expect Dugan and his 45% winning percentage at fullback to carry us to a premiership.

 

[giboz71]

add to this there was a general consensus this season from most experts that with Coote at the back adding an extra dimension and ball playing option, Thurston was able to pick and choose when to inject himself into the attack, rather then be the focus point like in previous years. this in turn made Thurston more dangerous and i guess his try assists stats reflect that.
I'm not sure if there are stats on this but it could be fair to say that Thurston probably averaged less touches per game this year but had a higher conversion of try assists.

Can't comment about his number of touches, but his try assists (28) were far ahead of the next best Benji (22).

He had an absolutely phenomenal year - Premiership, Dally M, Golden Boot, Clive Churchill. No one will ever top this.

And what was different about this year - he had a ball player (Coote) at FB and a dynamic hooker (Granville) to spread the load. Funnily enough, 2 things we don't have.

Blind Freddy can see this was the case, yet people continue to debate otherwise.

 

[watatank]

Nick, some how you are missing the point. Thurston is an outstanding individual player and is heavily targeted by the defence, BUT the fact that the Cowboys have two more great attacking ball players in Coote and Morgan means that they can't just focus only on Thurston or they will be burnt by the other two. Just as we saw in the grand final.

It means that opposing defences have to be more aware of the shutting down all three players. Not an easy thing to do.

In our case only Marshall and Widdop were capable of opening up a defensive line with evasive running and ball skills, but the problem was that they took turns at being the strike player which meant the opposition defence still only had to focus on one player at a time.

Dugan, being a power runner, meant all you had to do was get numbers in the tackle to stop him because the odds of an offload were very slim indeed.

In my opinion Thurston is an even better player because of the quality of Morgan and Coote to create more questions for the opposing defence.

Excellent points.

Will just add that Granville's impact was a factor as well, setting up two tries in the grand final. Just another player to take the pressure off Thurston that wasn't there last year.

 

[giboz71]

Excellent points.

Will just add that Granville's impact was a factor as well, setting up two tries in the grand final. Just another player to take the pressure off Thurston that wasn't there last year.

Again, Bingo.

 

[hazzbeen]

Exactly. No one is knocking the class of Thurston but his job is made a whole heap easier when he has 2 other players in the critical spine positions to take the pressure off himself at times during the game. This just highlights how important it is to have those 3 playmakers in the spine positions. Both our halves had very good numbers when it comes to line breaks and try assists but we didn't have a very contribution from both the hooker and fullbacjfullback in this regard

Spot on.... well said...

 

[possm]

It was reported this morning on Sky Sports News that Farrah and his management met with the Dragons yesterday.

I don't understand what is happening. Surely the time to do a deal was prior to the signing of Balin from Manly. So unless Rein has a club chasing him, I don't see how we can afford Farrah.

 

[Vasilevsky]

It was reported this morning on Sky Sports News that Farrah and his management met with the Dragons yesterday.

I don't understand what is happening. Surely the time to do a deal was prior to the signing of Balin from Manly. So unless Rein has a club chasing him, I don't see how we can afford Farrah.

The Roosters, Broncos, Bullgrubs, Manly (who have less money than even us) and others always find a way to sign to sign a player to fill a weakness in their line-up. Salary cap is of very little importance to them. Time the Dragons copied the same formula.

 

[Vasilevsky]

Can't comment about his number of touches, but his try assists (28) were far ahead of the next best Benji (22).

He had an absolutely phenomenal year - Premiership, Dally M, Golden Boot, Clive Churchill. No one will ever top this.

And what was different about this year - he had a ball player (Coote) at FB and a dynamic hooker (Granville) to spread the load. Funnily enough, 2 things we don't have.

Blind Freddy can see this was the case, yet people continue to debate otherwise.

But he didn't have a fullback who can consistently take on and beat the line or at least bend it and get a quick play the ball.

 

[giboz71]

But he didn't have a fullback who can consistently take on and beat the line or at least bend it and get a quick play the ball.

Correct. He didn't need one.

They're premiers.

A running fullback with no passing game would have been about as useful to them as Dugan was to us in terms of scoring points.

 

[hazzbeen]

The Roosters, Broncos, Bullgrubs, Manly (who have less money than even us) and others always find a way to sign to sign a player to fill a weakness in their line-up. Salary cap is of very little importance to them. Time the Dragons copied the same formula.

Vas have said before the club needs to be smarter in regards to the cap.. Like you say the other clubs find a way .....

 

[The Nick]

I think if Dugan is the marked man in the team, then maybe we need a different focus. He is obviously a dangerous player regardless but his skills are limited and doesn't make his teammates better. He is not as mobile or elusive as he used to be either.

I honestly have no idea what any of this is supposed to mean, but I'll do my best to respond. Firstly, opposition defences focus on him because he is one of our most potent attacking weapons and more often than not will beat a 1-on-1 tackle.

Your argument that he is "not as mobile or elusive as he used to be" has zero basis to it and his stats suggest the complete opposite.

Dugan, being a power runner, meant all you had to do was get numbers in the tackle to stop him because the odds of an offload were very slim indeed.

Really all the opposition have to do is put numbers in the tackle to try and stop him? Amazing, you have literally come up with a formula to stop all the "power runners"... Players like Inglis, Vatuvai, Morris etc are now officially redundant because you have cracked the code how to shut down the "power running" attack. I hope NRL defensive coaches are taking note... Unbelievable...

Are you arguing he didn't have a career year? He won just about every award on the planet..

Barr the Premiership and CC medal Thurston had already won every award prior. He's had a phenomenal career period. Year after year he has produced, regardless of who he has played with. Many would argue that he may have already won the Premiership and CC medal in 2013 or 2014 if not for blatant refereeing errors.

Can't comment about his number of touches, but his try assists (28) were far ahead of the next best Benji (22).

So you're arguing that Thurston was able to get so many try assists (28 in 25 matches) due to Coote's presence on the field, yet Marshall was able to get 22 try assists in 22 matches, despite having only Josh Dugan (who apparently can't pass the football) on the field?

Statistically they are virtually on par which means your try assist argument is invalid.

Excellent points.

Will just add that Granville's impact was a factor as well, setting up two tries in the grand final. Just another player to take the pressure off Thurston that wasn't there last year.

You obviously have a short memory. In 2005 Thurston had Nathan Fien and Matt Bowen in his spine, both of which were better than Granville and Coote.

 

[Vasilevsky]

Forwards were really good last season. Dugan and Benji were by far the best two backline players. The only 2 that seemed to worry the enemy defence. Yet, a lot of you ******* homies spend most of your time denouncing one or the other or both of them. Would be confusing but given the previously mentioned deep-seated psychological problems a lot of you obviously suffer from, perfectly normal and natural.

Anyway, Robbie Farah and Peta Hiku would both be outstanding acquisitions. Release Mitch Rein and ....... who?