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Dugan/Widdop/Marshall/Farrah Spine??

TruSaint

Referee
Messages
20,855
WTF are you talking about? All I said is the fact that Benji and Dugan, the most broadly denounced backs on this forum, were without question the 2 best backs in the team last season. Is this untrue?

Have to agree with Vas on this one.
 

getsmarty

Immortal
Messages
34,330
St George Illawarra players back incumbent Dragons hooker Mitch Rein instead of Robbie Farah move



  • Simon Brunsdon
  • November 28, 2015 6:00AM


ST George Illawarra has been linked to Robbie Farah, but Dragons players seem content with the hooker they’ve got.

With Farah on the outer at Wests Tigers and rumoured to be looking for a home in 2016, the Wollongong club is one of several in the NRL said to be interested in his services.
The message, however, clearly hasn’t made its way down to the playing group.
They have thrown their support behind incumbent No. 9 Mitch Rein.
Benji Marshall, who has a long history with Farah and considers him a close friend, doesn’t see the need for a second (or third) hooker while Rein is wearing the Red V.
“(Farah is) a class player,” Marshall said of his former teammate.
“The problem is we’ve got a class hooker as well in Mitch Rein.

“If Mitch is at the club I think he’s got a great future, he’s a future Origin star.
“If Robbie joins the club that’s another hooker on the books.”

Utility back Peter Mata’utia agrees the club is sufficiently stocked in the hooking department.
Aside from Rein, the Dragons have recruited Josh McCrone from Canberra, who may be used to complement the former rake off the bench.
Mata’utia says Farah would be surplus to needs with Rein already holding a mortgage on the jumper.
“He’s a great player, he’s an Origin hooker, but I don’t know much about Robbie,” Mata’utia told foxsports.com.au.
“I’m happy with Mitchy, he’s a great talent.
“I thought he should have made the Origin squad last year.
“But Mitch is the future of the club and I’ll back him any day of the week.”
Statistics compiled by Fox Sports Lab from the 2015 NRL season paint two very different players when comparing Farah and Rein.
Rein shaded the more experienced man in linebreaks (7 to 2) and tackle busts (31 to 19) last season, suggesting a better running game from dummy half.
This could, however, be contributed to the tighter rein held on Farah by Tigers coach Jason Taylor this year.
Farah also averaged almost three more kicks per game than Rein.
But the one stat that has worked against Rein throughout his NRL career lies in the “average minutes per game” column.
While the diminutive rake has long voiced his desire to play 80 minutes, Dragons coach Paul McGregor insisted on carrying a second hooker on the bench.

As a result, Rein averaged just 59 minutes a game in 2015.
Mata’utia, though, is confident Rein could run rings around most hookers in the game.
“He’s probably one of the fittest at the club, so there’s no doubt Mitchy could play 80 minutes,” Mata’utia said.
“I think he did it the last couple of games last year.”
Marshall and Farah played side by side at the Tigers through most of their careers, but the former insists he has no idea which way Farah is leaning for 2016.
He hasn’t received any indication his mate will land in Wollonogong.
“He doesn’t say anything. I asked him the other night and he said I’ll find out,” Marshall said.
“I said mate, ‘I’ve known you 20 years and you don’t want to tell me’.
“He said how good would it be to finish our careers together, and I said you’ll be finished way before me.”


http://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl...obbie-farah-move/story-e6frf3vc-1227625998109
 

possm

Coach
Messages
15,959
Farrah on a two year deal with an option in favour of the Dragons would be great for our Club. And if the combo between Farrah and Mashall proves to be magic like I think it'll be, maybe the Club will consider giving Marshall a one year extention - till end of 2017.



 

getsmarty

Immortal
Messages
34,330
Mitch Rein deserves to be first choice No.9

By MITCH JENNINGS

Nov. 28, 2015, 1:52 p.m.


IT would be a mistake for the Dragons to sign Robbie Farah.
It’s no knock on Farah, he’s a quality player and has made a habit of proving knockers wrong at both club and particularly with his courageous performances at Origin level.
He’s the current NSW hooker and, if fit, has done enough in previous series to ensure the jumper is his for as long as he wants it.
There’s no doubt he polarises opinion but fans are all but unanimous in their belief that he’s been treated appallingly by the club he’s given his heart and soul to. He’s nearing the end of his career and he deserves a far more dignified exit than that being offered by the Tigers.
After all that has happened the relationship between Farah and Tigers coach Jason Taylor is clearly unworkable.

It’s why Farah and his management have sought a release from his current deal which is reportedly worth close to $900,000 a season for the next two years.

It’s just the latest piece of evidence that back-ended deals are never in a club’s best interest but – whatever your personal opinion of his monetary value – Farah is entitled to that money.
He signed a contract in good faith and frankly I think people are sick to death of club’s trying to wriggle out of the beds they’ve made for themselves when it comes to player contracts and the salary cap.

As the current NSW hooker, Farah has obviously tweaked the interest of other clubs who would be keen to secure a State of Origin player at a bargain basement price.

However, the NRL have shown with their handling of Sam Burgess’s contract at South Sydney and their moves to block Wallaby superstar Israel Folau’s return to rugby league with the Eels, that they won’t allow any club to sign a player of Farah’s calibre at minimum wage.
Whether that is in the best interests of the game is an argument for another day but it’s the present reality.

A potential move to the Roosters has reportedly been quashed by player support for current hooker and co-captain Jake Friend.

Friend is heir apparent to Cameron Smith’s Test and Origin number 9’s and has proven himself as an 80-minute player.

He has the support of his teammates and the vast majority of Roosters fans and coach Trent Robinson risks alienating both should he bring Farah to the club.

It leaves St George Illawarra as potentially the last team in the hunt for his services but a look at the Dragons shows the exact same scenario.
At 25 and with 104 NRL games to his name Mitch Rein is entering his prime.
The 2014 season was undoubtedly his best as an NRL player after re-discovering the running game that made him an NYC star while he also finished the season as an 80-minute player.
The Dragons beefed up forward stocks and a reduction in the interchange will only increase his effectiveness against tired defensive lines next season.
Like Friend he has the complete confidence of his teammates and is seen as a future Origin player - ironically as the likely successor to Farah for NSW.
One could make the argument that it wouldn’t hurt his career to be mentored by a player of Farah’s calibre for a season but the fact is Rein has well and truly finished his apprenticeship.
He’s shared the hooking role with the likes of Dean Young and Nathan Fien at the tail-end of the Bennett era and more recently he’s shared dummy-half duties with Heath L’Estrange and Craig Garvey.
The latter two have both moved on ahead of the 2016 and the scene is set for Rein to really make his mark on the competition – one that will last much longer than Farah’s potential stint at the club.

As good a player as Farah is, as effective as he might be in a short stint with the Dragons, stalling Rein’s development for another season is neither in his interests or the long-term interests of the club.
He’s a local junior who the club have invested a great deal of time in and he deserves to be the club’s first choice hooker.


http://www.illawarramercury.com.au/...-farah-not-the-right-fit-for-dragons/?cs=2382
 

possm

Coach
Messages
15,959
In my opinion Rein won't be an SOO hooker. He is miles behind Farrah in ability and has never been able to deliver a good passing game or even read a game well.

On the other hand, Farrah is the top NSW hooker. With the up-sizing of the Dragon forward pack and with Marshall still there in 2016, I believe Farrah would play a significant role in the Dragons march to a top 4 spot in 2016.

For the past few years we have been hopeful that Rein would improve is service from dummy half however, it has not happened and I believe it will never happen.

I say, if Rein has Clubs chasing him, sign Farrah and let Rein go. Farrah is an elite 80 minute hooker and the Dragons have plenty of backup in Siliva Havili and Josh McCroneif required. After Farrah's two you stint I'd think that Havili would be a good chance of holing down the 9 jumper.
 
Last edited:
Messages
17,055
Regardless if Farah comes this team isn't and will not be a top 4 side.

The backline isn't even close to a top 4 side its a work in progress but i do see lots of potential with Dugan moving to the centres and Mann at fullback.

The halves to me don't work well enough Marshall wants the ball to much and Widdop doesn't command the ball enough.

No steadying influence and way to much panic with a lack of direction from the coach but hopefully Mary has improved in that department in terms of out laying his instructions better if he actually has any.

The forwards are fine they are not super stars but they will go alright but a top 4 forward pack they are not.

I'll be happy with a top 8 finish and thats being realistic with a horrible draw and still alot of question marks over the coaching anything higher then 8 is a massive bonus.
 

possm

Coach
Messages
15,959
Regardless if Farah comes this team isn't and will not be a top 4 side.

The backline isn't even close to a top 4 side its a work in progress but i do see lots of potential with Dugan moving to the centres and Mann at fullback.

The halves to me don't work well enough Marshall wants the ball to much and Widdop doesn't command the ball enough.

No steadying influence and way to much panic with a lack of direction from the coach but hopefully Mary has improved in that department in terms of out laying his instructions better if he actually has any.

The forwards are fine they are not super stars but they will go alright but a top 4 forward pack they are not.

I'll be happy with a top 8 finish and thats being realistic with a horrible draw and still alot of question marks over the coaching anything higher then 8 is a massive bonus.

I'm basing my prediction on the performance of our team in the first half of the 2015 season. We held our own with the big guns and at one stage were top of the ladder. Our depth was poor and our players succumbed to injury after a very heavy contribution.

This year we have beefed up our forwards and signed some quality depth. Hopefully this will address the problems we had in 2015.

However, if the real problem is within our halves or outside backs, then we now have the capacity to make positional changes to try and rectify these problems; e.g. move Dugan to center, Mann/Widdop to fullback or halfback and Benji to five-eighth where I really think he belongs.

I do feel we have a good solid 17 with plenty of backup and so I stand by my prediction of a top four placing if we can sign Farrah.

I have been a critic of May's coaching appointment and some of his decisions made in 2015. For season 2016 he is the Dragon's head coach and so I hope and pray with his rookie year behind him, he will learn from is mistakes and do better in 2016.
 
Last edited:

Jubileeboy

First Grade
Messages
9,259
I'm basing my prediction on the performance of our team in the first half of the 2015 season. We held our own with the big guns and at one stage were top of the ladder. Our depth was poor and our players succumbed to injury after a very heavy contribution.

This year we have beefed up our forwards and signed some quality depth. Hopefully this will address the problems we had in 2015.

However, if the real problem is within our halves or outside backs, then we now have the capacity to make positional changes to try and rectify these problems; e.g. move Dugan to center, Mann/Widdop to fullback or halfback and Benji to five-eighth where I really think he belongs.


I do feel we have a good solid 17 with plenty of backup and so I stand by my prediction of a top four placing if we can sign Farrah.

I have been a critic of May's coaching appointment and some of his decisions made in 2015. For season 2016 he is the Dragon's head coach and so I hope and pray with his rookie year behind him, he will learn from is mistakes and do better in 2016.

Good post.
 

possm

Coach
Messages
15,959
possm,

I believe we need a strike centre, Packer and Farah to be considered a top 4 chance. Just my view

GO

I do not disagree with you however, I'm not sure we have the funds to buy Farrah and a strike center. We have been linked to serveral outside backs by the media and maybe we can fit someone in; I don't really know.

We can always move/promote one of our own 10 to centers if the situation requires. Potential centers currently on our books:

Dugan
Matta Utia
Aitken
Carr
Faifai Loa
Farrell
Glymin
Mann
Milne
Thompson

If none of the above are suitable for the NRL 17, maybe we should be getting rid of acouple of them and buying a suitable player prior to season 2016.

You will note that in my previous post I suggested moving Rein on for Farrah. This applies to the center positon as well.


P.S. I'm tipping Milne to have a big year and possibly be our first choice left center from mid season on.


 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
17,977
Interesting stats

Since 2003 when BM & RF first played a few games in 1st grade WT have had only 3 top 8 finishes with only 2010/11 being back to back.

They had the stellar year in 2005 but didn't make the semi's again until 2010.

No doubt both have been brilliant individuals but the actual outcome for WT as a team is in fact extremely average.

For a brief period the dazzle dazzle was great to watch and every kid wanted to be Benji but you have to ask yourself was that style of football truly successful?

Judging by cold hearted stats the answer has to be not very.

Now some will say they were just simply brilliant and the things that held WT back was the various coaches and some will say the playing roster and some will say both.

Surely not all the coaching and all the rosters were bad perhaps it was the style that they wanted to play?

No doubt at the time it was exciting however it was't disciplined nor repeatable and ultimately ineffective other than for pure entertainment.

Our attack over the last few years has been very average and some think that the old firm of BM & RF will change that into a winning formula.

Statistics show they already had plenty of years at it and the success rate was minimal so what exactly is it that they will do for us?

Let's move on and adapt to the requirements of 2016 and beyond and stop believing that 2 blokes running on 30 + year old legs who thrilled us beyond imagination 10 years ago and for a brief period 5 years ago are going to make the big difference for us.
 

TruSaint

Referee
Messages
20,855
Interesting stats

Since 2003 when BM & RF first played a few games in 1st grade WT have had only 3 top 8 finishes with only 2010/11 being back to back.

They had the stellar year in 2005 but didn't make the semi's again until 2010.

No doubt both have been brilliant individuals but the actual outcome for WT as a team is in fact extremely average.

For a brief period the dazzle dazzle was great to watch and every kid wanted to be Benji but you have to ask yourself was that style of football truly successful?

Judging by cold hearted stats the answer has to be not very.

Now some will say they were just simply brilliant and the things that held WT back was the various coaches and some will say the playing roster and some will say both.

Surely not all the coaching and all the rosters were bad perhaps it was the style that they wanted to play?

No doubt at the time it was exciting however it was't disciplined nor repeatable and ultimately ineffective other than for pure entertainment.

Our attack over the last few years has been very average and some think that the old firm of BM & RF will change that into a winning formula.

Statistics show they already had plenty of years at it and the success rate was minimal so what exactly is it that they will do for us?

Let's move on and adapt to the requirements of 2016 and beyond and stop believing that 2 blokes running on 30 + year old legs who thrilled us beyond imagination 10 years ago and for a brief period 5 years ago are going to make the big difference for us.

With respect. I get it that many believe Marshall is a weak link in our team and his best years are behind. Whilst I disagree, questioning Beni's influence on juniors and the game in general should be irrefutable.

Kids here and in the islands wanted to be Benji "like" Huge influence on the game.

Won a premiership.
Captained World Cup winning side.
captained 4 nations championship.
Golden Boots winner.

Not too many can make claim to the above. In fact maybe a handful.

If the game becomes so clinical, whereby natural instinct and ad lib is taken out of it, then its a major loss.

Remarkably, his stats for 2015 were very good.

I understand that people want to move on, and thats fine. Just giving credit to a unique athlete that brought so much to the game. On and off the field.
 

giboz71

First Grade
Messages
9,676
With respect. I get it that many believe Marshall is a weak link in our team and his best years are behind. Whilst I disagree, questioning Beni's influence on juniors and the game in general should be irrefutable.

Kids here and in the islands wanted to be Benji "like" Huge influence on the game.

Won a premiership.
Captained World Cup winning side.
captained 4 nations championship.
Golden Boots winner.

Not too many can make claim to the above. In fact maybe a handful.

If the game becomes so clinical, whereby natural instinct and ad lib is taken out of it, then its a major loss.

Remarkably, his stats for 2015 were very good.

I understand that people want to move on, and thats fine. Just giving credit to a unique athlete that brought so much to the game. On and off the field.

Benji is a great player no doubt and there was enough to suggest he has a few good years left. But I think both he and Widdop suffered from not having an organising half back to complement them. Add the fact that we didn't have a ball player at fullback, then that meant both our halves were restricted somewhat.

When our backs did look good on the odd occasion, it was because both our halves are supremely talented, but they were never going to be consistent because two 5/8's just don't work.

It's why I'm scratching my head as to why we're after Bird if and when Marshsll moves on as this leaves us with exactly the same problem.
 

Old Timer

Coach
Messages
17,977
TruSaint

Not for a minute am I saying that Benji should not be respected for his contribution to the game nor that he doesn't deserve the superstar status he has earned in the game.

He was to a generation in NRL what Greg Norman was to the golfing youth of Australia 35 years age. "inspirational" and both sports would be poorer for not having them.

I am just merely pointing out the stats around what actually happened at club level because that is the evidence we should rely on when making an assessment whether they bring something to the ST GI table.

I would rather be posting as "Young One' rather than "Old Timer" but unfortunately the clock can't be stopped and that is how it is for BM & RF.

The stuff we really enjoyed from them is some time ago and should be remembered for what it was rather than watching them try to do the same thing now and having it in unravel.
 

TruSaint

Referee
Messages
20,855
Benji is a great player no doubt and there was enough to suggest he has a few good years left. But I think both he and Widdop suffered from not having an organising half back to complement them. Add the fact that we didn't have a ball player at fullback, then that meant both our halves were restricted somewhat.

When our backs did look good on the odd occasion, it was because both our halves are supremely talented, but they were never going to be consistent because two 5/8's just don't work.

It's why I'm scratching my head as to why we're after Bird if and when Marshsll moves on as this leaves us with exactly the same problem.

Fair analysis mate. The issue we have with the respective roles of Gaz and Marshall is real.
TBH, i am a fan of both. My post was mostly addressed to BM and the perception that he is over it, or plays in a bygone era. However i do understand that clinically speaking they are both
5/8ths.


TruSaint

Not for a minute am I saying that Benji should not be respected for his contribution to the game nor that he doesn't deserve the superstar status he has earned in the game.

He was to a generation in NRL what Greg Norman was to the golfing youth of Australia 35 years age. "inspirational" and both sports would be poorer for not having them.

I am just merely pointing out the stats around what actually happened at club level because that is the evidence we should rely on when making an assessment whether they bring something to the ST GI table.

I would rather be posting as "Young One' rather than "Old Timer" but unfortunately the clock can't be stopped and that is how it is for BM & RF.

The stuff we really enjoyed from them is some time ago and should be remembered for what it was rather than watching them try to do the same thing now and having it in unravel.

I like your posts YOUNG ONE.

Only in reference to your last paragraph. I think we all can agree Benji's magic ora of ad lib, freaky plays are behind him. He has IMHO revamped his game to a point where those moments are limited, and he is much more prone to deliver a nice short pass to a raging Friz, kick a 40/20 when under pressure, and offer experience to those around him. Overall, 2015 was a good season for him. In essence he has matured and we have a young squad. Until a viable option arises, i can still see him as a leader.
 

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