Dylan Brown - charged sexual touching

[the phantom menace]

Well why should anyone else's opinion matter in my marriage? It's between me and my wife. Not really @Pneuma's place to decide what is and isn't acceptable in another person's marriage.

So where do you stand on burkas, just out of interest...?

Power imbalances are part of any relationship. If you don't like it you're free to end the relationship.

It would be nice if it were true... but power imbalances often make it harder for partners under coercive control to end the relationship and leave.

 

[the phantom menace]

There is no difference. My employer can't actually stop me from taking the day off if I feel like it, but they can sack me, so I ask permission.

Interesting analogy of a marriage to an employment relationship...

I don't ask my wife what I can wear, and similarly never expect her to ask for permission about what she can wear. It simply doesn't come into it, but then neither of us see each other as a "belonging" either.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Looking at someone without their consent isn't even a crime, ffs.

So is leaving your car unlocked. Does that make it more like sexual touching without consent than staring without consent? We are talking about a spectrum of unwanted behaviours here, not whether something is illegal.

The issue seems to be about sexual touching, and people here implying that a woman's clothing is somehow an issue in that.

Agreed it's dumb. But also for a (straight) bloke looking to find someone willing to consent to such activity in a fairly short timeframe, I'd say you start by judging her appearance. A woman hoping to be approached by a stranger is going to signal that somehow. If the wrong stranger comes along well suddenly she's only interested in having a drink with her friends. Obviously only the right man gets to touch her sexually but I doubt she wants to form a verbal contract.

 

[the phantom menace]

I'm not being contrary mate, I just disagree with you. Good luck with your progressive ideas on marriage, but for me I'd rather not be married to someone who violates my entirely arbitrary boundaries. And if she found those boundaries unreasonable I'm sure she wouldn't want to be married to me either. Where we are unsure where those boundaries are (in my marriage it's either about financial decisions or choices around the kids) we ask permission. It's human decency ffs. But if she assumed I was cool with something when I wasn't I'd tell her. Then it would be up to her whether she went ahead with it. If it makes you uncomfortable I suggest you stop worrying about other people's marriages.

It doesn't make me uncomfortable in the slightest. Good on you for being able to clearly explain the boundaries in your marriage, it bodes well in the communication stakes of navigating said boundaries.

I guess my entirely arbitrary boundaries and those of my wife are relatively minimal, and don't extend to clothing choices, lol. I don't see that as being progressive, although some might... and so I guess I see needing to "allow" a spouse to go out wearing clothes of there choice as a little regressive?

It's been an interesting conversation.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

So where do you stand on burkas, just out of interest...?

I have mixed feelings about them. I can understand why women might want to wear them but also see how they can be abused, by both the wearer and others.

It would be nice if it were true... but power imbalances often make it harder for partners under coercive control to end the relationship and leave.

Well yeah. If you want to live in the same house as your kids you are pretty much stuck living with their mother.

 

[the phantom menace]

Agreed it's dumb. But also for a (straight) bloke looking to find someone willing to consent to such activity in a fairly short timeframe, I'd say you start by judging her appearance. A woman hoping to be approached by a stranger is going to signal that somehow. If the wrong stranger comes along well suddenly she's only interested in having a drink with her friends. Obviously only the right man gets to touch her sexually but I doubt she wants to form a verbal contract.

I'd if said human wasn't fussy, you start by eye contact. Then by verbal contact. Then by consent. Plenty of signals once you get to the verbal stage - irrespective of what they might or might not be wearing.

It's not that difficult tbh - and hopefully men of the next generation might find it easier to respect women in pursuing (mutual) happiness...

 

[the phantom menace]

I have mixed feelings about them. I can understand why women might want to wear them but also see how they can be abused, by both the wearer and others.

So in those cases where they can be abused (by others), is there a role for any intervention in what occurrs in someone else's marriage? How about in cases of DV or coercive control in someone else's marriage? Or no duty of care at all toward the rights of the less powerful spouse?

Well yeah. If you want to live in the same house as your kids you are pretty much stuck living with their mother.

True that...

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Interesting analogy of a marriage to an employment relationship...

Pretty apt I think. Sometimes you need your employer more than they need you and other times they need you more. But if you treat them and yourself with respect the power dynamics shouldn't matter.

I don't ask my wife what I can wear, and similarly never expect her to ask for permission about what she can wear. It simply doesn't come into it, but then neither of us see each other as a "belonging" either.

Having nothing to lose must be very liberating.

 

[the phantom menace]

Having nothing to lose must be very liberating.

It actually is... I find a lack of arbitrary petty boundaries tends to take your own ego out of the equation, and means you can be more genuinely interested in supporting your partner's own goals and ambitions (and they yours).

 

[Poupou Escobar]

So in those cases where they can be abused (by others), is there a role for any intervention in what occurrs in someone else's marriage? How about in cases of DV or coercive control in someone else's marriage? Or no duty of care at all toward the rights of the less powerful spouse?

Not really. How do you police it? Threatening divorce isn't 'coercive control', it is the only way to maintain boundaries in a marriage. I mean what else have you got? If you don't believe your wife is going out in miniskirt and boob tube to "just have a drink with her friends" you can't stop her, like @T-Boon said. If she blows off your concerns you have to assume it's time for a divorce.

 

[Gronk]

Can you actually put a Thread on ignor @Gronk

It’s like a block of cadbury fruit n nut that’s call your name !

 

[Gazzamatta]

It’s like a block of cadbury fruit n nut that’s call your name !

Yeah. Well Ive stopped answering the call. It can stay BOLD.

 

[the phantom menace]

Not really. How do you police it? Threatening divorce isn't 'coercive control', it is the only way to maintain boundaries in a marriage. I mean what else have you got?

Wow! Boundaries seem very important...

If you don't believe your wife is going out in miniskirt and boob tube to "just have a drink with her friends" you can't stop her, like @T-Boon said. If she blows off your concerns you have to assume it's time for a divorce.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see what the big deal is if the wife wears a miniskirt and boob tube, and presumably attracts attention etc? That doesn't "concern" me, as I don't believe that I "own" or "possess" my wife's free will.

 

[Bandwagon]

Oh ok no problem. Jesus never existed, just made up. It's quite embarrassing. If aliens land and it's Christmas time, they will ask who this is for. For Jesus. Who's he. Nobody. Just a figment of all our imaginations.

I said your god does not exist, Jesus is debatable, once you accept there is no god, Jesus is just a man.

Now Jesus existing as an historical figure is no more evidence of a god than L Ron Hubbard having existed is proof of omnipresent alien lifeforms.

 

[Pumpkin]

It actually is a sin to look at a woman in lust.

Matthew 5:28

But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

 

[T-Boon]

So you're advocating husbands needing to give their wives permission for what to wear... or just being contrary? Just for clarity....

My wife won't even let me go to Jade's place (work friend) to watch movies, which I want to do.

 

[Pumpkin]

I said your god does not exist, Jesus is debatable, once you accept there is no god, Jesus is just a man.

Now Jesus existing as an historical figure is no more evidence of a god than L Ron Hubbard having existed is proof of omnipresent alien lifeforms.

Hi Bandwagon. Hope you are well.

John 14:8-9

Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.”

9 Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

 

[emjaycee]

My wife won't even let me go to Jade's place (work friend) to watch movies, which I want to do.

Just tell her you and Jade are going to watch Netflix and chill, she'll be right with that mate.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Wow! Boundaries seem very important...


Maybe it's just me, but I don't see what the big deal is if the wife wears a miniskirt and boob tube, and presumably attracts attention etc? That doesn't "concern" me, as I don't believe that I "own" or "possess" my wife's free will.

I’d say most married people care what their spouses get up to, especially in regard to sexual interactions with other people. Not everyone is an ‘ethical non-monogamist’. I suspect those freaks are in the minority, God bless them.

 

[hineyrulz]

Wow !well this thread just got very exciting!!