Eels Attack Analysis

[Gary Gutful]

Bennett sacked Walters and Lazo in 2005, club legends who won comps and bled for the club. Next year they won the comp, we year after year keep the status quo and wonder why nothing changes. It’s embarrassing.

Thats bullshit. I get you are angry about our team but don't just make stuff up. Every year our squad has changed and we have definitely made tweaks with respect to support staff. You can say that those changes have been crap but you can't argue that there hasn't been any changes.

 

[emjaycee]

So it is different. They went left for one try and right for the other try, ie threats on both sides of the field. They also started both tries from the near post , we go left from the far post. I am not against a setup play and attacking left from the far post, it’s just that we do it at nauseum and it is so predictable.

We also go right - just not as often. How else would Fergo score? In Magic Round didn't we score 2 tries down the right hand side with shift (Jarthur hand off to Matto and Jarthur himself for the last try). It isnt that we always go left, we just prefer it.

 

[emjaycee]

Said it twice.

 

[Gary Gutful]

But we need to do something different if we want to challenge the top teams at the end of the year. Our current system of work to the right post for 2-3 tackles, shift left, work back to the middle and kick and hope is too easy for decent teams to defend against.

I don't know how many times I have to tell you that I've seen us try and do what you are suggesting and it hasn't worked. What we are currently doing has lead to much more consistent performances and more wins. I'm all for trying something, but not something that has been proven to fail.

 

[emjaycee]

So just thought you’d throw it out there huh??

Not sure Delboys answer but I think it’s possibly and maybe bullshit.

I threw it out there based on the original purpose of this thread - to see if people looked at our execution as being an issue and I see execution as primarily the responsibility of the 1-17 that are on the field on game day.

 

[Gary Gutful]

Think that’s over the top re Murphy, I am constantly looking for the improvement in tactics and structure, and not seeing it. I acknowledge he’s a good person, but in my circles all the good coaches I know just repeatedly say, even I can see the predictability in the attack, good NRL coaches recognise it and usually take advantage.

Keep whoever on if you believe it, but at least make a change to see if that assists. What’s the phrase, doing the same thing consistently and expect a different result = madness

Make a change?

What change would you like to see?

 

[Noise]

We also go right - just not as often. How else would Fergo score? In Magic Round didn't we score 2 tries down the right hand side with shift (Jarthur hand off to Matto and Jarthur himself for the last try). It isnt that we always go left, we just prefer it.

And as a result we go left far too often. Teams know it and can adjust their right side defence accordingly, particularly after the hand off unders play to the right post.

 

[TheRam]

No-one is suggesting it isn't an issue and you certainly haven't been the only person to point it out in the past.

The original post was asking for examples of how we are being coached differently and suggests that maybe our ability to execute might be part of the problem. I reckon it is a definite factor and a point well made.

To date the only response people have come up with is "settlers" which is pretty f**ken lame.

OK, you seem to have missed my point. We probably do all the basic attacking plays and structures that all the teams do in the NRL. It is not like the 70's, 80's or 90's, where coaches played different styles of play to suit the players that they had in their roster. Now everyone copies everyone else as soon as there is any new style that is remotely successful for fear of being left behind. Other then Bellamy, there seems to be a real dearth of thinking man coaches out there. Definitely, no B. Smith, W. Ryan or P. Gould types out there that's for sure.

My point is we don't focus on attack as much as we should and it shows. I don't think we do enough training in attack. We can't be, the execution is dreadful at times or we have no clue as to what to do as soon as a team cuts down our space and thinking time. When to opt for the short inside passing game or fast wide option. When to stand deeper because the ref is allowing them to stand offside and they are shuting us down. When to setup both our backrowers (running along each other) at the opposing isolated centre. Just to name a few things we just don't do well at all consistently enough. Not to mention a simple thing, but a massive thing, which is supporting in numbers the most powerful pack in the NRL. This would all be sorted if we trained for it extensively by a real quality teacher.

I mean extensively. We tried doing it a couple of seasons ago mid season and our defense just crumbled so I think Arthur then just thought, oh no I will stick to effort in defense and our attack should be good enough in the end. He then tinkered with it by bringing in Johns, probably to show the higher ups that he is addressing our shortcomings, but it still hasn't been addressed substantially.

We need a complete off season of focussing on execution of attacking plays. All the different scenarios that can and do come up in a game and nail how we will respond. If you think we responded like a team that knew how to handle an in your face and compressed defense last night you are kidding yourself. There is way to much individual talent in that side to be incapable of executing a well trained plan or contingency plans when necessary. What do you think this same team under a coach like Bellamy would have come up with against a tight defense like that? The effort was there so he wouldn't have had to improve that. He would have made sure though that each and every player would know how to adjust and react to what is in front of them under any given situation. We currently though don't know how to even count numbers properly and send the ball to where the opposition want us to. It is ridiculous watching games like last night unfold. Just not good enough from a top 4 talented team.

 

[Noise]

A different coach isn't going to get this current squad performing much better than BA has.

How on earth do you know that?

 

[TheRam]

Setups also get our attack set. When we don't do them we lose structure and start playing "Parra Ball" which is incredibly inconsistent and results in more errors and turnovers. Its not as simple as just saying take less settlers.

That's right. That's were great coaching addresses that. If Murphy can't, and he obviously even by your reckoning hasn't because we revert to "Parra ball" then someone needs to be brought in that can. Not hard to workout really. Players have changed over the years, but attacking coach hasn't. Hmmm...want could be the problem? What to do, what to do? Oh, but we are imbeciles, there could be heaps of different reasons for our lack of creativity. We just haven't thought this out.

 

[Noise]

I don't know how many times I have to tell you that I've seen us try and do what you are suggesting and it hasn't worked. What we are currently doing has lead to much more consistent performances and more wins. I'm all for trying something, but not something that has been proven to fail.

Please tell me a game where we were consistently throwing shape both left and right and it wasn't working. I want to watch it.

 

[Gary Gutful]

OK, you seem to have missed my point. We probably do all the basic attacking plays and structures that all the teams do in the NRL. It is not like the 70's, 80's or 90's, where coaches played different styles of play to suit the players that they had in their roster. Now everyone copies everyone else as soon as there is any new style that is remotely successful for fear of being left behind. Other then Bellamy, there seems to be a real dearth of thinking man coaches out there. Definitely, no B. Smith, W. Ryan or P. Gould types out there that's for sure.

My point is we don't focus on attack as much as we should and it shows. I don't think we do enough training in attack. We can't be, the execution is dreadful at times or we have no clue as to what to do as soon as a team cuts down our space and thinking time. When to opt for the short inside passing game or fast wide option. When to stand deeper because the ref is allowing them to stand offside and they are shuting us down. When to setup both our backrowers (running along each other) at the opposing isolated centre. Just to name a few things we just don't do well at all consistently enough. Not to mention a simple thing, but a massive thing, which is supporting in numbers the most powerful pack in the NRL. This would all be sorted if we trained for it extensively by a real quality teacher.

I mean extensively. We tried doing it a couple of seasons ago mid season and our defense just crumbled so I think Arthur then just thought, oh no I will stick to effort in defense and our attack should be good enough in the end. He then tinkered with it by bringing in Johns, probably to show the higher ups that he is addressing our shortcomings, but it still hasn't been addressed substantially.

We need a complete off season of focussing on execution of attacking plays. All the different scenarios that can and do come up in a game and nail how we will respond. If you think we responded like a team that knew how to handle an in your face and compressed defense last night you are kidding yourself. There is way to much individual talent in that side to be incapable of executing a well trained plan or contingency plans when necessary. What do you think this same team under a coach like Bellamy would have come up with against a tight defense like that? The effort was there so he wouldn't have had to improve that. He would have made sure though that each and every player would know how to adjust and react to what is in front of them under any given situation. We currently though don't know how to even count numbers properly and send the ball to where the opposition want us to. It is ridiculous watching games like last night unfold. Just not good enough from a top 4 talented team.

I'm not sure any of us know how much time they spend on training attack v defense. I agree with you that the issue is more about execution than it is about our game.

Bennett's Souths team have had some atrocious performances this year - worse than anything Parra have dished up. I don't think he's a great example to refer to at the moment when talking about how to get players prepared.

 

[Delboy]

Thats bullshit. I get you are angry about our team but don't just make stuff up. Every year our squad has changed and we have definitely made tweaks with respect to support staff. You can say that those changes have been crap but you can't argue that there hasn't been any changes.

Gary, sure there have been changes and certainly some have worked, particularly the appointment of Trent Elkin, but what we are trying to address is the need to at least look like we are moving with the changes in attack. The defence currently is holding up and that’s fine, but as soon as the opposition gets in our faces and we don’t dominate the ruck, we seem to have no idea how to change things up. We look pedestrian When compared to Storm, Riff , Souffs and even Roosters, which isn’t good looking at the roster we have.

Tend to agree that we don’t need wholesale changes, but at least recognise we should be doing a whole lot better when things get tough, our work and understanding on shifts and line running doesn’t compare and it should .

 

[Gary Gutful]

That's right. That's were great coaching addresses that. If Murphy can't, and he obviously even by your reckoning hasn't because we revert to "Parra ball" then someone needs to be brought in that can. Not hard to workout really. Players have changed over the years, but attacking coach hasn't. Hmmm...want could be the problem? What to do, what to do? Oh, but we are imbeciles, there could be heaps of different reasons for our lack of creativity. We just haven't thought this out.

Good coaching is to play to a teams strengths and recognise their limitations. You cant just say "play like the storm" and expect it to happen without turning us into the storm everywhere else on an off the field.

Not hard to work out? Mate, you'll need some metamucil and a pencil they way you're going...

 

[hineyrulz]

Thats bullshit. I get you are angry about our team but don't just make stuff up. Every year our squad has changed and we have definitely made tweaks with respect to support staff. You can say that those changes have been crap but you can't argue that there hasn't been any changes.

What’s different from last year in the coaching set up?? Same head coach, same attack coach, same defensive coach plus Carr who was involved last season and John’s who was with the team last year. Add in the exact same spine which look like strangers half the time out there.

Murphy has been here for 8 seasons and Kidwell since mid 2018??? We’ve had just 3 main assistant coaches in all BA’s time here. Hardly massive changes.

 

[TheRam]

Last night Canberra were getting 3-4 players into the tackle. We needed some short balls from our middles to get 1v1 or 1v2 and we could've worked off the back of that. When our middles ball-play they're generally playing out the back to a half.

Look at last week Browny was hitting other forwards with some really nice short balls. He is the key to our attack. I think we need to simplify Junior's game a bit. Early in the game every time he gets the ball Reg and Junior should be on either shoulder, that'll spread the defence out a bit and we can get a quick play the ball off that

Yes, that is just one simple thing that we could do, but there are many depending on the situation and opposition. We juts don't do any when the team we are playing gives it to us. When Moses is there at least, his kicking game puts pressure on them and we can keep them pinned down in the half, till they get frustrated enough to start to push and make errors and then we slowly get the upper hand. With him not there last night we didn't even have that and they ended up beating us even with less ball.

 

[Gazzamatta]

What I witnessed last night was Rickys Faiders rushing out of the line and targeting players with the knowledge they knew exactly where the ball was going usually 4 or 5 tackles out of each 6. Predictability is a huge issue for our team. Our game plan exhausts players which I must admit has marginally improved since BA has utilised his bench better.
An incident last night was a terrific run by Jnr in the opposition 20. He'd created space, got in position to offload for a simple try yet he had no support and went to ground. Ffs we had a glut of ball yet the constant collisions wore our support players badly. Run at spaces not faces.
The Tits D last week was gash early. A bit of a false dawn for our A. I agree with the analysis that we appear to be de skilling our players. There definitely needs to be a shake up of sorts within the coaching ranks. A new voice with different ideas that are utilised wouldnt go astray.

 

[Gary Gutful]

The defence currently is holding up and that’s fine, but as soon as the opposition gets in our faces and we don’t dominate the ruck, we seem to have no idea how to change things up.

True. But I'm not sure there are many teams that do well when they are getting dominated in the ruck.

 

[Gary Gutful]

What’s different from last year in the coaching set up?? Same head coach, same attack coach, same defensive coach plus Carr who was involved last season and John’s who was with the team last year. Add in the exact same spine which look like strangers half the time out there.

Murphy has been here for 8 seasons and Kidwell since mid 2018??? We’ve had just 3 main assistant coaches in all BA’s time here. Hardly massive changes.

You originally said we don't make any changes. Glad to see you've changed that view.

If you are suggesting that we should make changes every year, then I'm afraid I'd have to disagree with you on that one.

 

[Angry_eel]

BA even said in the interview last night Bea Jr's job was to lead the team around the park while Dyl sticking to his job. He doesn't think he is capable of leading the team around the park which i reckon is BS. His game has stalled and IMO that's all on the coach and his staff. I wonder where his game would be at id he was at the Roosters or Storm. I bet he would be asked to do more than tackle, kick when needed and just run the ball. As i said earlier we are ridiculously under coached.

Unless we win a premiership in a year or two, I'd leave if I was Brown. Its a bad situation to be in, He'll always be a second-rate half as things are going.