Eels Holden Cup Team and junior reps thread, Part II

[Obscene Assassin]

Newbigging is a prop. So is Jordan Grant.

You're forgetting about the jump from SG Ball to Holden Cup though. You saw Latham (a year young) as a below average NYC prop last year, but you're comparing him to blokes who played well in SG Ball. Don't think Pua or Kaufusi are going to be anywhere near the level they were in SG Ball. Tepai Tepu-Smith was more highly rated than either of them last year and he performed no better than Latham in the NYC.

I'm not saying Latham will ever be a first grader. Chances are none of them will.

Jordan Latham born on the 11th August 1994. He's 20 this year not 19, and last year he was 19 when a lot of other forwards make their debut in NYC and he was not outstanding nor did he look like an NYC-worthy player. He wasn't a prop last year he mainly played lock or hooker and was extremely average when he came on the field. Whenever he or Vescio took the field our attack slowed down and our defence wasn't much better.

Difference between Tepu-Smith and Latham was that Tepai was actually a year young and only played a few games to my recollection. If we were able to keep our props that we wanted on the field: Masinamua, and Alvaro I doubt we would have seen Tepu-Smith play.

 

[Forty20]

Not entirely true Poups.

Although Tepu-Smith's sample size is much smaller (4 games vs 17 games) he smashed Latham across all running and meterage metrics. He also lead Latham on most other mean offensive categories.

N.B.
Black = Overall Return
Red = Mean Return

Tepu-Smith

AR AR ARM ARM MpR
35 8.75 393 98.25 11.23

Latham

AR AR ARM ARM MpR
73 4.29 536 31.53 7.34

Latham was better defensively though, albeit still well below the standards of a strong defender.

 

[Obscene Assassin]

Not entirely true Poups.

Although Tepu-Smith's sample size is much smaller (4 games vs 17 games) he smashed Latham across all running and meterage metrics. He also lead Latham on most other mean offensive categories.

The go to man for statistics and NYC and NSW cup related matter. This poster I trust the most. Forty, would you have Latham running with the props? Would you have Latham in the team at all?

 

[Forty20]

I don't share Pou Pou's optimism. Latham wouldn't be close to my top squad, I honestly can not see what he brings to the team.

On props, it will be interesting to see how our NYC prop rotation fares this year given that we will likely be fielding a heavily rookie line-up up front.

We had a superb rotation on paper in 2013 with Alvaro, Masinamua, Pauli and Paulo but I'm almost certain that all four never actually played together. After Masinamua left the club and Paulo was hot-shotted into senior football it all went downhill as it left Pauli and Joseph Ualesi to carry the rest of the second string forwards and young'uns.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Jordan Latham born on the 11th August 1994. He's 20 this year not 19, and last year he was 19 when a lot of other forwards make their debut in NYC and he was not outstanding nor did he look like an NYC-worthy player.

I know how old he is. He doesn't turn 20 for another six months.

He wasn't a prop last year he mainly played lock or hooker and was extremely average when he came on the field. Whenever he or Vescio took the field our attack slowed down and our defence wasn't much better.

Difference between Tepu-Smith and Latham was that Tepai was actually a year young and only played a few games to my recollection. If we were able to keep our props that we wanted on the field: Masinamua, and Alvaro I doubt we would have seen Tepu-Smith play.

Tepu-Smith was two years young, and I actually rate him higher than any of the others mentioned (besides Masinamua). My point though was that last year Tepu-Smith was no better than Jordan Latham, and both were better than the props who stayed in SG Ball. Obviously all the ones who are 19 this year (Tepu-Smith, Pua, Kaufusi, plus Francis who turns 18) have more potential than Latham, Grant or Newbigging by virtue of the fact that they all have an extra year's development in front of them (an extra two in the case of Wayne Francis).

But if people are talking about Jordan Latham like he will be part of our NYC top 17 then it means he has developed well since last year, at least compared to our other front row options (most of whom are eligible again next year). That doesn't mean the others won't become better players than him down the track, but if Latham is in the top four (or however many we use in the lineup) then he should be in the team. And I wouldn't be surprised if he was in the top four props in the squad since last year he was better than most of the blokes that are in this year's squad (many of whom were in SG Ball).

The tight forwards that were better than Jordan Latham last year were Paulo, Alvaro, Masinamua, Ualesi, Pauli and Bugden. And none of them are in this year's NYC squad.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Not entirely true Poups.

Although Tepu-Smith's sample size is much smaller (4 games vs 17 games) he smashed Latham across all running and meterage metrics. He also lead Latham on most other mean offensive categories.

N.B.
Black = Overall Return
Red = Mean Return

Tepu-Smith

AR AR ARM ARM MpR
35 8.75 393 98.25 11.23

Latham

AR AR ARM ARM MpR
73 4.29 536 31.53 7.34

Latham was better defensively though, albeit still well below the standards of a strong defender.

Latham wasn't used as a prop last year though, so his stats will be skewed. Much like Mossop's role in the British national team.

 

[Forty20]

The comparison isn't one-to-one but between statistical evidence and anecdotal reference I believe that it is fair to say that Latham's running game hovers somewhere between below average and abysmal.

In his three starting caps at lock in 2013 (Rd.1, Rd.2 , Rd.3), Latham returned the following:

6 runs, 31 metres, 5.17 metres per run
4 runs, 34 metres, 8.50 metres per run
6 runs, 35 metres, 5.83 metres per run

His highest single game metearage return was a paltry 53 metres (Rd.24 vs Storm) from 17 appearances. Despite fielding a fairly weak squad for most of the season only Michael Ki (2 games) fared worse (52m, Rd.15 vs Rabbitohs) and even then he produced excellent metres per run in his limited chances.

While I could understand if he was used as a defensive backrower (like Mossop) across the course of a number of games but as I mentioned before, he doesn't exactly excel in that aspect either. Fellow backrowers Gorman (when fielded at lock), Jackson, Junior Mauala and Ualesi were all more effective in defence whilst all still providing something with the ball in hand.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Due to a bunch of factors I have mentioned, NYC stats aren't a reliable indicator of future performance the way they are in the NRL. Have a look at Tepai Moeroa's stats and tell me if you think he's going to be ordinary this year.

Latham wasn't even in our top 6 tight forwards last year, but neither were any of the ones in this year's squad. They all need to improve for this year and the thing about young players is that they generally do improve every year. Most of the forwards that made Latham and co look ordinary last year are too old for the NYC this year, whereas all the guys backing up (like Latham) are a year older, bigger and better.

 

[Forty20]

Like I said, I am also weighing my judgement with anecdotal evidence (which is weak, I know). In my opinion, Latham did not made an impact statistically (which is true) nor did any of his actions on the field speak of any untapped potential. You contend that Latham was made to look ordinary by his seniors, whereas I believe that Latham was one of the chief agents of mediocrity in our forward pack.

As you point out, statistically Moeroa was nothing to be excited about. However unlike Latham, who received numerous caps and plenty of game time (again this is anecdotal as NYC stat tracking for game time is terrible - but I am confident in my memory), Moeroa was restricted to extremely limited minutes off the bench for his four games.

You could be right and Latham could come out of the 2013-14 off-season a new player, ready to rip in but I feel that based on my experiences of watching him in 2013 he would simply be wasting a developmental slot for another player.

 

[isaiah]

They did show interest and I believed was invited to tour their training facilities

what they continue to not do is offer good money, like say what a fringe nrl player would get. if they could only lure 2 or 3 with talent, others will follow.

 

[Stagger eel]

Trial this Saturday

Parra v Wenty at Ringrose

2pm and 4pm

 

[Jordy]

Just throwing my 2 cents in but I would have Tepai Tepu Smith, Paea Pua and Paula Kaufusi over Latham after watching over the last few years of the footy careers especially Tepu Smith. Have to also agree with Forty20 on Latham in regards to his 2013 form being below par but having said that 2014 new start better for the experience maybe

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Tepu-Smith is definitely the pick of our NYC front rowers and he's eligible again next year.

Jordan Latham is one of the few tight forwards backing up from last year. That's worth a fair bit, especially early in the season.

 

[Jordy]

Very true pou I guess we'll see how the year pans out with which players they'll play and which ones they send back to RMC or SYD shield. Im very excited to see how this years crop of NYC go for parra as I think they have a selected a few players I definitely would have chose if I was a selector/coach.

 

[Stagger eel]

We play penrith this Saturday at 6pm centrebet stadium.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

NYC trial match? Do you know if the squad is decided yet, Stags? Or is this just a trial to work out the top 17?

 

[Stagger eel]

NYC trial match? Do you know if the squad is decided yet, Stags? Or is this just a trial to work out the top 17?

Nah, they'd be plaing the whole squad in various stages as they did on Saturday

 

[Poupou Escobar]

What I'm asking is, will they be cutting any more players from the squad listed on the official site? And do you know if Raeili is still around?

 

[Stagger eel]

What I'm asking is, will they be cutting any more players from the squad listed on the official site? And do you know if Raeili is still around?

They cut a couple of players before Christmas I'm not quite sure where they're at with the squad and whether it's settled but I can find out

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Thanks mate.