Eels release Kieran Foran

[strider]

Game over let the shit fight continue ... oh ahng on it never stopped

 

[Happy MEel]

Actually I was quite enjoying your debate with Pou. It's not like him to leave a debate half finished. I suspect he is analysing some stats and will be back with a counter attack soon

I suspect the same. There's no way he'd concede defeat but I'll assume he's taking some time to come up with a new argument and I'll take the first round win.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Because different positions require different levels of involvement. That's obvious isn't it?

It is, which is why I said the comparison must be between like positions. Ma'u makes about 15 runs a game when he plays edge forward. Scott never did at right edge forward and still doesn't now he's in the middle. But Tepai Moeroa is also making 15 runs a game now that he's moved to the right edge.

Mau is one of our best attackers isn't he? Why don't we do a shift to the left three or four times a set if that's the case? The reason is because his carries are most effective when he has time and space. That doesn't necessarily happen every set. Yet wicks will touch the ball pretty much every set he is on.

Wicks doesn't always make a lot of carries. In the middle there are only so many carries to share around and the best attacking forwards (like Watmough last year) get far more carries than the other middle forwards.

Why would that be the case if BA gives the lions share of involvement to the best attackers? Does BA have no idea?

Arthur gave the most carries to Moeroa today. Seven times this year Ma'u has made the most carries of any of our forwards. How many times do you think Scott has made the most carries?

 

[El Diablo]

Learn to f*cking spell moron

straight over your head lol

 

[hineyrulz]

Come on lads, Pou and I were engaged in rigorous debate and the fact he hasn't replied can only lead me to believe he's lost the thread in your tit-for-tat.

He'll be back, he's just like the T 1000 when it comes to an argument.

 

[Happy MEel]

It is, which is why I said the comparison must be between like positions.

You only mentioned "similar positions" after back tracking and stating "The stats are the only objective measure. If a forward is making more runs and metres he is making a bigger contribution. There is no way to 'spin' that."

 

[Happy MEel]

Arthur gave the most carries to Moeroa today. Seven times this year Ma'u has made the most carries of any of our forwards. How many times do you think Scott has made the most carries?

This is actually an excellent example of what I'm arguing. Tep did get the most carries today and he played very well. However, he was effectively used as a middle forward but on the edge (Ie. A battering ram). He absolutely made plenty of metres which were needed, but this should in no way diminish Edwards attacking threat on the other side. He made less runs for less metres but had an LBA and 4 tackle busts as opposed to Tep's none. Both were a handful, just had different roles in attack.

 

[strider]

I feel left out ... who wants to pick a fight with me?

 

[Happy MEel]

...and just to reiterate the onfield contribution Beau makes, our defence has been pretty terrible the last two weeks without him In the team. We've leaked 57 points (23.5 per game) which is significantly higher than our average points against prior to round 20.

Points for is also lower (11) but I won't use that due to the players we have unavailable. I don't remember Watmough's absence having as much influence.

 

[The Phelan Folly]

I feel left out ... who wants to pick a fight with me?

Your profile pic licks balls.

 

[strider]

Your profile pic licks balls.

I know you are, but what am i?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

You only mentioned "similar positions" after back tracking and stating "The stats are the only objective measure. If a forward is making more runs and metres he is making a bigger contribution. There is no way to 'spin' that."

It was not 'back tracking', it was making a clarification after sensing you would start playing semantics:

You can tell the effectiveness of Scott's attack with one simple and very telling statistic - number of carries. The more important players (besides halves, obviously, whose 'importance' stat is indicated by touches) in a team's structure make more runs than the less important ones. At least when comparing similar positions.

I posted this eight minutes after the one you've posted above, with nobody else posting in between. It's not 'back tracking'. It was clarifying what should be a common sense assumption after I noticed you starting to clutch at straws.

 

[Happy MEel]

I posted this eight minutes after the one you've posted above, with nobody else posting in between. It's not 'back tracking'. It was clarifying what should be a common sense assumption after I noticed you starting to clutch at straws.

Now who's playing semantics?? Claiming I'm clutching at straws by directly refuting something you just said sounds to me like something someone would say who was losing an argument.

Although I'll give it to you...it was a clever way of avoiding a response to my previous post re. Tep and Edwards.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

This is actually an excellent example of what I'm arguing. Tep did get the most carries today and he played very well. However, he was effectively used as a middle forward but on the edge (Ie. A battering ram). He absolutely made plenty of metres which were needed, but this should in no way diminish Edwards attacking threat on the other side. He made less runs for less metres but had an LBA and 4 tackle busts as opposed to Tep's none. Both were a handful, just had different roles in attack.

Exactly, both Moeroa and Edwards (and Ma'u when he plays) are dangerous attacking edge forwards, as proven by the stats. Beau Scott is not dangerous either on the edge or in the middle. Watmough was dangerous in the middle, like how he was dangerous back when he played as an edge forward up until 2011).

Beau Scott has his strengths (including being a better defender and a better human being than Watmough), but he offers very little in attack other than his offload. The better attackers have some power and/or footwork, just like Ma'u, Edwards, Moeroa and former NRL player Anthony Watmough.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Now who's playing semantics?? Claiming I'm clutching at straws by directly refuting something you just said sounds to me like something someone would say who was losing an argument.

Although I'll give it to you...it was a clever way of avoiding a response to my previous post re. Tep and Edwards.

I responded to your post above. Obviously I can't respond to something you post while I am responding to your previous point.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

...and just to reiterate the onfield contribution Beau makes, our defence has been pretty terrible the last two weeks without him In the team. We've leaked 57 points (23.5 per game) which is significantly higher than our average points against prior to round 20.

Points for is also lower (11) but I won't use that due to the players we have unavailable. I don't remember Watmough's absence having as much influence.

I remember we hit good form prior to him getting injured and then rapidly going downhill after he left. We won four from his final six full games (with Watmough making 100 metres in five of those games). Then in the final seven games after he was injured we only won two games.

 

[Noise]

Watmough was twice the attacking player Scott is, and comparable in defence.

Beau Scott has his strengths (including being a better defender and a better human being than Watmough),

Changing his tune...

 

[Happy MEel]

Exactly, both Moeroa and Edwards (and Ma'u when he plays) are dangerous attacking edge forwards, as proven by the stats. Beau Scott is not dangerous either on the edge or in the middle. Watmough was dangerous in the middle, like how he was dangerous back when he played as an edge forward up until 2011.

Yes they are. But according to you, Moeroa is the better attacking player by default because "You can tell the effectiveness of [Scott's] attack with one simple and very telling statistic - number of carries."

I'm not arguing that Scott is a better attacking player than Tep, Edwards or Watmough. He's not. I'm saying that his overall onfield contribution, being his exceptional defence and adequate attack, has been more than Watmough's last year (higher work rate with more errors/missed tackles and less attacking THREAT). A nice way to look at it is the team's performance without them playing.

 

[Happy MEel]

Changing his tune...

Great find!!

 

[Happy MEel]

I remember we hit good form prior to him getting injured and then rapidly going downhill after he left. We won four from his final six full games (with Watmough making 100 metres in five of those games). Then in the final seven games after he was injured we only won two games.

That's nice. What about the previous 13 games? We had a winning percentage of 41% last year when Watmough was playing. This dropped to 29% when he wasn't playing. We have a 59% winning percentage with Scott in the team and although it's a small sample size, we have a 0% winning percentage without him in the team.