england want rl ashes on the line

[1 Eyed TEZZA]

it's going to be the biggest,most hyped games since the 1992 RLWC final.....

but as someone else said its a shame its not at CoMs...

Too late to change? And will it pull a significant crowd?

 

[roughyedspud]

yeah..too late to change and it'll sell out no problem

 

[griff]

scotland & ireland don't have test playing status so the likes of ed joyce and gavin hamilton have to play for england if they want to play test matches

and that's exactly the same as a Wales eligible RL player deciding to play for England if he wants to play decent quality international RL instead of playing for Wales in front of a few friends and relatives

It's so obvious it is a little odd that Richard Lewis et al don't realise how colossally stupid this idea is.

 

[nadera78]

From a RL perspective I want to see Wales and the others doing well, but when it comes down to it I'm English and I want to see England playing internationals. I want to see England re-gain its independence as well come to that.

 

[kiwileaguefan]

and that's exactly the same as a Wales eligible RL player deciding to play for England if he wants to play decent quality international RL instead of playing for Wales in front of a few friends and relatives

It's so obvious it is a little odd that Richard Lewis et al don't realise how colossally stupid this idea is.

Not really, its up to the Welsh to sort out their own matches. I mean the Kiwis use to always play the Welsh and its a shame it does not happen more often.

Its good to see NZ playing Tonga and England playing Wales for the second year running. If the big three nations continue to play other nations then you will find more eligible players declaring themselves for Wales and Tonga for example.

Now all we need is Australia to play PNG every year in a Test match and France vs Ireland. Then that would be 8 nations playing regular test matches. Then of course you got Samoa and Fiji....

 

[roughyedspud]

also it's looking increasingly likely that england & NZ will contest a 3 test baskerville series in 2012..hopefully in NZ

 

[griff]

Not really, its up to the Welsh to sort out their own matches. I mean the Kiwis use to always play the Welsh and its a shame it does not happen more often.

Its good to see NZ playing Tonga and England playing Wales for the second year running. If the big three nations continue to play other nations then you will find more eligible players declaring themselves for Wales and Tonga for example.

Now all we need is Australia to play PNG every year in a Test match and France vs Ireland. Then that would be 8 nations playing regular test matches. Then of course you got Samoa and Fiji....

Exactly, Wales sort out the odd match for themselves while England get the big matches and the big 4 nations type tournaments. They might get the odd warmup game against the Kiwis or England, but that isn't going to help as the big matches will always involve England. Therefore the better players will play for England, and Wales will not significantly improve.

 

[roughyedspud]

or they get serious instead of sorting out "the odd game" and they develop plans to incease the strength of the game in wales and win the european cup thus promoting themselves into the 4NATIONS..

what they all need to do,and i mean every 2nd tier RL nation,is stop looking for scraps from the big three...theres nothing at all from stopping these nations organising games..nothing!

the welsh need to look toward ireland to see how things should be run,nobody has defected from them have they?? why? because they have a very well run govening body and a clear plan on where they want to be in the next few years,they'll win the european cup this year and i fancy them to win it again even when france enter it next year..then they'll be with the big boys..

the welsh plan seem to consist of whinging

 

[East Coast Tiger]

I tend to think Wales is far more advanced than any other developing European country. They have junior/amateur football from kids to adults. The best of them are given the opportunity to play for the national teams and/or the Crusaders under 18s and reserves. The very best will get a chance to play SL with the Cru as several young Welsh players have already. This way they are developing their own players for the future instead of relying on the grandparent rule to put a decent team together. They're hosting the Euro Cup final and the England game too and they should get much bigger crowds than any of the other countries would.

 

[roughyedspud]

tim sheens view on it..

http://www.sportinglife.com/rugbyle...TORY_NAME=rleague/09/09/06/manual_123511.html

Australia coach Tim Sheens believes having a one-off Ashes game against England has added extra pressure to the Kangaroos' forthcoming tour.
Following an agreement this week between the ARL and RFL, the 101-year-old Ashes title will be contested in one-off games over the next three years, starting with England's clash with Australia at Wigan in the Gillette Four Nations on October 31.
Australia have held the Ashes since 1973 and Sheens, who succeeded Ricky Stuart following last year's shock World Cup final defeat by New Zealand, believes the combination of an Ashes game and a major tournament away from home will be a big test for his side.
"It will certainly add some extra spice to the game, there's no doubt," he said.
"With England regularly having beaten Australia in the first game of an Ashes series, it will put the pressure right on us.
"If you are talking about a Four Nations tournament and the Ashes all in one, that's a lot of pressure but there's a lot more there for us to win as well.
"We're the holders of the Tri-Nations but to win on English soil is going to be difficult and to win a one-off Ashes Test that is going to be a great challenge as well."
Australia launch the defence of their crown against the Kiwis at the Twickenham Stoop on Saturday, October 24.
A week later they will travel to Wigan for the Ashes fixture before flying to Paris for their final group fixture against France on October 7.

 

[RL1908]

My ten cents worth...

Rugby League's Fight For The Ashes
The notion that rugby league can seek to mirror the interest and euphoria surrounding cricket's Ashes Test series by simply doubling-up on the result of a Four Nations match at Wigan is ludicrous.
Continue reading: http://www.RL1908.com/blog/The-Ashes.htm

Also picked up by The Sun-Herald...

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]

[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]This one-off Ashes Test is not cricket, says historian[/FONT]
By DANIEL LANE
The Sun-Herald - 13 September 2009

THE historian who helped plan last season's heritage year to celebrate the centenary of rugby league in Australia has condemned the decision to make the Kangaroos-England pool game in the Four Nations tournament later this year a one-off Ashes decider.

Sean Fagan was employed last year to oversee the way the code's major milestones were commemorated. He also coached the referees and players to ensure the 1908 exhibition "foundation" match, which featured schoolboy players, would reflect the game of 100 years ago.

Fagan made a last-ditch appeal for the game's decision-makers not to cheapen the tradition-steeped series but failed to sway them.

He believes if Australia and England can't play for the Ashes over three Tests, the concept would be better "consigned to history".

"The Ashes tradition began in cricket, but was quickly taken up by other sports in representative contests between states and countries," Fagan told The Sun-Herald.

"Test series between the Wallabies and All Blacks were for 'rugby's Ashes' before the Bledisloe Cup was donated in 1931.

"By the start of the 20th century it was an accepted principal that the 'fight for the Ashes' had to comprise at least three games to be a true test of strength between the nations.

"Rugby league contests between Australia and England have been three-Test series since they began in 1908 and took on the Ashes name. In the early 1920s the City Tattersall's Club in Sydney donated the 'Ashes Cup' trophy and league's Ashes battles were seen by public [in NSW and Queensland] as the football/winter equivalent of the cricket Ashes.

"The idea that the Ashes could be up for grabs in a one-off game goes against that tradition and the very reason that made Ashes contests unique and revered. A one-off ordinary pool game could never be seen as a true test for the Ashes as it could prove nothing about the merits of the two nations' playing talents."

 

[The Observer]

The ARL has refused to sanction a one off Ashes.

 

[RL1908]

The ARL has refused to sanction a one off Ashes.

It was the RFL who had second thoughts:

RFL SCRAP ASHES PLAN

The Rugby Football League have abandoned plans to play for the Ashes during the end-of-season Gillette Four Nations series.

The RFL had persuaded the Australia Rugby League to put the Ashes trophy, held by the Kangaroos for almost 40 years and currently on display at the National Museum in Canberra, at stake when England meet the old enemy at Wigan on October 31.

Full story:
http://www.sportinglife.com/rugbyle...STORY_NAME=rleague/09/09/14/RUGBYL_Ashes.html

 

[roughyedspud]

at the very least they should have put it up for grabs over the next 3 games then...

 

[1 Eyed TEZZA]

at the very least they should have put it up for grabs over the next 3 games then...

No, it should be a three series test against Great Britain, not England. Just because we havent played for it for a while doesnt mean we should pull out all stops to bring it back because the cricket ASHES is the flavour of the month.

We didnt play a World Cup for 8 years, during that 4 year period, I dont recall anyone ever wanting to have the World Cup up for grabs at the Tri Nations.

 

[roughyedspud]

no but the winners where often called "the unofficial world champions"...but anyway thats a daft argument...

and you'll be waiting a hell of a long time to see GB contest the ashes

http://www.sportinglife.com/rugbyle...TORY_NAME=rleague/09/09/14/manual_092332.html

"The strong feeling expressed about the Ashes are a reminder of how much these contests mean to people and we will no doubt have further discussion regarding an Ashes series in the near future."
There will now be a concerted call for a tour to Australia in 2012 when the Ashes could be contested over a three-match series.
Australia are keen to have an international-free close season in preparation for the 2013 World Cup.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/8236909.stm

But the demise of tours between the two hemispheres means there is unlikely to be a suitable period for Great Britain to take on Australia in a three-match series in the foreseeable future.

GB can't play in 2012 but england can....see ya down under with england in 2012,we will be going to either australia or NZ mark my words...

 

[deluded pom?]

No, it should be a three series test against Great Britain, not England.

Wasn't G.B., as a title, something that only came in after WW11? Prior to that wasn't it the NU and then England who played for the Ashes? There is some history of England contesting the Ashes although this would obviously alienate the other Home countries from the concept.

 

[roughyedspud]

i think it was about 1948? when we officially became Great Britain...prior we were the northern union then 'the lions'...technically of course it was always a GB team cos it contained the odd welsh and even scottish players..

 

[RL1908]

i think it was about 1948? when we officially became Great Britain...prior we were the northern union then 'the lions'...technically of course it was always a GB team cos it contained the odd welsh and even scottish players..

You're right - changed to GB after WW2, but had often included Welsh players from the NU/RFL clubs from the first internationals.