ESL Superthread

[LeedsStorm]

Nope.

I'm saying it now before we get anywhere near the playoffs that i don't like the stupid system where the league means nothing.


If Leeds finish top of the league but Warrington win the grand final then Leeds are the best team in the league this year. I'll even re quote this should that happen and congratulate you.


Warrington beat one of their biggest rivals away from home and it counts for sh*t at the end of the day.

Leeds biggest rivals are about to go bust completely.

Welcome to the super league 2012.

The league does mean something. It indicates the sequence of games you need to play, at home or away to get to the final and contest the championship. All teams know the rules at the start, and it's been a playoff system for some time now. Lets face it, it only took a remarkable achievement from Leeds last year to undermine the system, as the "best" one or two teams during the course of the year usually make it to the final. If Leeds finish top this year and lose in the playoffs, they have failed as it will mean they have choked to a poorer side with home advantage, as warrington did last year. Why would you congratulate that?

It's the playoff system, in my opinion, that helps the likes of the bulls survive through ticket sales, as why would you go watch a team that has nothing to play for after the first couple months of the season? The fact they are struggling just looks like Leeds United esque gross mismanagement at this stage, but it would be nice to hear what has got them in this situation

 

[WireMan]

The league does mean something. It indicates the sequence of games you need to play, at home or away to get to the final and contest the championship. All teams know the rules at the start, and it's been a playoff system for some time now. Lets face it, it only took a remarkable achievement from Leeds last year to undermine the system, as the "best" one or two teams during the course of the year usually make it to the final. If Leeds finish top this year and lose in the playoffs, they have failed as it will mean they have choked to a poorer side with home advantage, as warrington did last year. Why would you congratulate that?

It's the playoff system, in my opinion, that helps the likes of the bulls survive through ticket sales, as why would you go watch a team that has nothing to play for after the first couple months of the season? The fact they are struggling just looks like Leeds United esque gross mismanagement at this stage, but it would be nice to hear what has got them in this situation

The two bolded points you make are interesting defence of the playoffs as a system.

In a cup competition, any team can win. Its known as the beauty of the cup and marketing men go on an on about it. Thats what the playoffs are for. To create another comp for Sky to sell. Why? Because the Challenge cup is protected and has to be on FTA telly.

I don't know why i would congratulate the team that finished top of the league on being the best team in the league. Strange world i live in.

 

[LeedsStorm]

The two bolded points you make are interesting defence of the playoffs as a system.

In a cup competition, any team can win. Its known as the beauty of the cup and marketing men go on an on about it. Thats what the playoffs are for. To create another comp for Sky to sell. Why? Because the Challenge cup is protected and has to be on FTA telly.

I don't know why i would congratulate the team that finished top of the league on being the best team in the league. Strange world i live in.

Well it appears a lonely one pal, as I hadn't heard anyone else bitch about the playoff system until Leeds won from fifth! You've bolded my text, but haven't really explained why you disagree?

The playoff system isn't another comp for sky to sell, its the same one they've invested in. Where would league be now without sky tv money?

Wire will probably win a GF before long. Again, they probably would have last year had they not met a Leeds side largely written off by everyone yet with lots of experience on how to win the comp

 

[Johnny_L_O]

Well it appears a lonely one pal, as I hadn't heard anyone else bitch about the playoff system until Leeds won from fifth! You've bolded my text, but haven't really explained why you disagree?

The playoff system isn't another comp for sky to sell, its the same one they've invested in. Where would league be now without sky tv money?

Wire will probably win a GF before long. Again, they probably would have last year had they not met a Leeds side largely written off by everyone yet with lots of experience on how to win the comp

Were you around here last season?

I wasted a lot of my time on Wireman so I just let him get on with it now. He doesnt seem to comprehend that some teams play to peak at the right time because thats the best thing to do in a comp that's had the same rules since 98.

They got lucky anyway IMO last year because they got to face Wigan the week after the cup final. Had Wigan not made the final I think they would have won that game and finished top because to me, Wigan were the best team throughout the season. Also, had Maguire thought finishing top was such a big achievement im sure he wouldnt have let them celebrate winning the cup and made them focus on such a big game coming up the week after, you know, with it pretty much deciding who "won the league" and all that :lol:

 

[WireMan]

Well it appears a lonely one pal, as I hadn't heard anyone else bitch about the playoff system until Leeds won from fifth! You've bolded my text, but haven't really explained why you disagree?

The playoff system isn't another comp for sky to sell, its the same one they've invested in. Where would league be now without sky tv money?

Wire will probably win a GF before long. Again, they probably would have last year had they not met a Leeds side largely written off by everyone yet with lots of experience on how to win the comp

So i'm the only person who thinks a team that wins the league is the best team in that league?
You sure?


The bolded bits were when you said Leeds discredited the league by becoming the 'Champions' despite being the 5th best team in the land and the playoffs will stop Bradford going bust. The first bit i agree with, the second is bobbins. So not the best pro-playoffs argument in the world.

The playoffs are around purely for Sky to sell as they wanted a big show piece final at the end of the season and they cannot show the challenge cup. To think otherwise is very naive.

Hopefully Warrington will win a GF. Always nice to see your team lift a cup.

Were you around here last season?

I wasted a lot of my time on Wireman so I just let him get on with it now. He doesnt seem to comprehend that some teams play to peak at the right time because thats the best thing to do in a comp that's had the same rules since 98.

They got lucky anyway IMO last year because they got to face Wigan the week after the cup final. Had Wigan not made the final I think they would have won that game and finished top because to me, Wigan were the best team throughout the season. Also, had Maguire thought finishing top was such a big achievement im sure he wouldnt have let them celebrate winning the cup and made them focus on such a big game coming up the week after, you know, with it pretty much deciding who "won the league" and all that :lol:

What Wigan celebrations? The open top bus parade that they didn't have because they had a league decider to play? The mad days of partying that never happened because they were back in training?
You sure your not just making stuff up?

I'm sure Wigan would of won if not for the Challenge cup, just like the other time they played each other in the league...


The only waste of time is super league before August.

How do you think Leeds drubbing by Saints is going to effect anything?

Go on, admit it, it counts for diddly squat as you will be in the top 8 at the end of the season so have a chance to become champions.

 

[deluded pom?]

Were you around here last season?

I wasted a lot of my time on Wireman so I just let him get on with it now. He doesnt seem to comprehend that some teams play to peak at the right time because thats the best thing to do in a comp that's had the same rules since 98.

At least Wireman is consistent with his dislike of the playoff system.

 

[LeedsStorm]

So i'm the only person who thinks a team that wins the league is the best team in that league?
You sure?


The bolded bits were when you said Leeds discredited the league by becoming the 'Champions' despite being the 5th best team in the land and the playoffs will stop Bradford going bust. The first bit i agree with, the second is bobbins. So not the best pro-playoffs argument in the world.

The playoffs are around purely for Sky to sell as they wanted a big show piece final at the end of the season and they cannot show the challenge cup. To think otherwise is very naive.

Hopefully Warrington will win a GF. Always nice to see your team lift a cup.



What Wigan celebrations? The open top bus parade that they didn't have because they had a league decider to play? The mad days of partying that never happened because they were back in training?
You sure your not just making stuff up?

I'm sure Wigan would of won if not for the Challenge cup, just like the other time they played each other in the league...


The only waste of time is super league before August.

How do you think Leeds drubbing by Saints is going to effect anything?

Go on, admit it, it counts for diddly squat as you will be in the top 8 at the end of the season so have a chance to become champions.

This is entertaining

Well it's easy to twist someone's perfectly valid argument when you selectively quote them isn't it?

For example, "It is not at all the case that Wireman is bitter at the fact his team blew their best opportunity in 50 years to become champions"

Put it a different way, given that only 2-3 of the last 14 grand finals have been contested by teams finishing outside the top two, how confident are you that warrington could not turn up all season and then get their act together to win it from, say 5-6th? Given last year's performance, I wouldn't be too confident - you need the easiest route possible. All the coaches know it, all the players know it, and I maintain there are only a few ignorant fans who don't. nudge nudge... ;-)

Leeds have largely underperformed in the cup, but you don't hear me whinging about the format....We should definately have a league round-robin...:roll:

 

[Evil Homer]

Warrington v Saints looking like a sell-out this weekend, which will be Warrington's biggest home attendance for almost 40 years.

 

[JasonE]

I think with Ben Westwood out suspended and Gareth Carvell still out injured that Saints should win.

 

[WireMan]

This is entertaining

Well it's easy to twist someone's perfectly valid argument when you selectively quote them isn't it?

For example, "It is not at all the case that Wireman is bitter at the fact his team blew their best opportunity in 50 years to become champions"

Put it a different way, given that only 2-3 of the last 14 grand finals have been contested by teams finishing outside the top two, how confident are you that warrington could not turn up all season and then get their act together to win it from, say 5-6th? Given last year's performance, I wouldn't be too confident - you need the easiest route possible. All the coaches know it, all the players know it, and I maintain there are only a few ignorant fans who don't. nudge nudge... ;-)

Leeds have largely underperformed in the cup, but you don't hear me whinging about the format....We should definately have a league round-robin...:roll:

I did not twist anything. I pointed out that the fact that Leeds undermined the playoff system is not the best argument for saying the playoffs are good. If you like watching an undermined league, then thats upto you. I'm glad for you Leeds are alright. Shame about your neighbours though...

How do think the Leeds defeat to Saints effected anything?

We pride ourselves that the league is getting more competitive. Do you think its more or less likely teams will be crowned 'champions' from outside the top 2 in the future?

Warrington, Wigan, Saints, Hull, Leeds, Hudds and Catalans have a shout this year. Any of these teams can beat any other. Hudds have beat Wigan, who have beat Leeds, who have beaten Warrington. Its mega competitive now. Its not like the days when one or two clubs just ran away with it. Even the lower clubs are chiming in with wins against the top teams.

Saints low in the table and gave you a kicking last week and are favorites now vs Warrington. Its not beyond the realms of possibility they won't be in the top 4 at the end.

If Warrington finished 5th, i'd still be confident we could win it. On the day, and of the top teams can beat any other. Finish 5th and play 8th best team. Then play a team who just got beat (possibly quite badly by the best team in the league).

Then a one off cup game to get to a final of a league.

Thats why the system is so totally stupid.

If we want to go down the NFL route then lets do it. Two divisions. East and West.

Until we go the whole way, we are left with a mongrel dog of a comp which is like a league, but with another cup comp tagged on the end to undermine the league we all just spent our money watching.

Warrington v Saints looking like a sell-out this weekend, which will be Warrington's biggest home attendance for almost 40 years.

All good stuff. The expansion of the stadium was good for the club.

I think with Ben Westwood out suspended and Gareth Carvell still out injured that Saints should win.

Carvell is in the squad. Cooper to go back to second row to replace Benny. Carvell to add grunt up front.

If he plays or not, should be a good one. Hopefully Warrington can stop making quite so many errors.

 

[LeedsStorm]

I did not twist anything. I pointed out that the fact that Leeds undermined the playoff system is not the best argument for saying the playoffs are good. If you like watching an undermined league, then thats upto you. I'm glad for you Leeds are alright. Shame about your neighbours though...

How do think the Leeds defeat to Saints effected anything?

We pride ourselves that the league is getting more competitive. Do you think its more or less likely teams will be crowned 'champions' from outside the top 2 in the future?

Warrington, Wigan, Saints, Hull, Leeds, Hudds and Catalans have a shout this year. Any of these teams can beat any other. Hudds have beat Wigan, who have beat Leeds, who have beaten Warrington. Its mega competitive now. Its not like the days when one or two clubs just ran away with it. Even the lower clubs are chiming in with wins against the top teams.

Saints low in the table and gave you a kicking last week and are favorites now vs Warrington. Its not beyond the realms of possibility they won't be in the top 4 at the end.

If Warrington finished 5th, i'd still be confident we could win it. On the day, and of the top teams can beat any other. Finish 5th and play 8th best team. Then play a team who just got beat (possibly quite badly by the best team in the league).

Then a one off cup game to get to a final of a league.

Thats why the system is so totally stupid.

If we want to go down the NFL route then lets do it. Two divisions. East and West.

Until we go the whole way, we are left with a mongrel dog of a comp which is like a league, but with another cup comp tagged on the end to undermine the league we all just spent our money watching.



All good stuff. The expansion of the stadium was good for the club.



Carvell is in the squad. Cooper to go back to second row to replace Benny. Carvell to add grunt up front.

If he plays or not, should be a good one. Hopefully Warrington can stop making quite so many errors.

Fair enough mate. You don't seem able to be convinced, which is a shame given that you're clearly an enthusiast of the game. Perhaps you'll change your mind when your team get to old trafford, cos to be honest, you're just coming across a bit bitter. But onward. Good luck with the meaningless game on Friday. Should be a belter

 

[WireMan]

Fair enough mate. You don't seem able to be convinced, which is a shame given that you're clearly an enthusiast of the game. Perhaps you'll change your mind when your team get to old trafford, cos to be honest, you're just coming across a bit bitter. But onward. Good luck with the meaningless game on Friday. Should be a belter

Bitter is not the right word. I have nothing to be bitter about. My team lost a game. If i was going to be cut up about that months later i would no of survived being a Warrngton fan for so long!

I think the reason it really brought it home to me last year about the league was Warrington won it. I have been a fan of the club for years and have watched Wigan and Saints winning everything. We would have maybe a good cup run before we get knocked out by one of them two clubs. Winning the league? That was something those clubs did.

Then we won the Challenge cup. Awesome day. Watching my team from little old Warrington win a comp. Supporting a team that wins as much as yours does, from a large well known city it cannot mean as much. Warrington on the telly for something other than murders.

Then a few years later we actually won the league. Beating Wigan and Saints home and away playing the best rugby EVER produced from a Warrington team. The feeling was, "Giants next week lads, i hope we can beat them". That was it. It should of been the best feeling ever as a supporter, it was flat. For that reason i will never like the playoffs.

Friday will hopefully be a cracker, but i have a horrible feeling we will lose, as we are playing badly and they have just found form. Still this team still suprises me with how good they are so we will see.


oh and i've been to old trafford may times as a United fan and seen more trophys lifted than i can remember. ;-)

 

[LeedsStorm]

Bitter is not the right word. I have nothing to be bitter about. My team lost a game. If i was going to be cut up about that months later i would no of survived being a Warrngton fan for so long!

I think the reason it really brought it home to me last year about the league was Warrington won it. I have been a fan of the club for years and have watched Wigan and Saints winning everything. We would have maybe a good cup run before we get knocked out by one of them two clubs. Winning the league? That was something those clubs did.

Then we won the Challenge cup. Awesome day. Watching my team from little old Warrington win a comp. Supporting a team that wins as much as yours does, from a large well known city it cannot mean as much. Warrington on the telly for something other than murders.

Then a few years later we actually won the league. Beating Wigan and Saints home and away playing the best rugby EVER produced from a Warrington team. The feeling was, "Giants next week lads, i hope we can beat them". That was it. It should of been the best feeling ever as a supporter, it was flat. For that reason i will never like the playoffs.

Friday will hopefully be a cracker, but i have a horrible feeling we will lose, as we are playing badly and they have just found form. Still this team still suprises me with how good they are so we will see.


oh and i've been to old trafford may times as a United fan and seen more trophys lifted than i can remember. ;-)

Are you for real mate? I watched leeds for 18 years before they won anything! And what has the big city got to do with it? Saints and Wigan fans might add their two pennies worth....

Winning from 5th was the best feeling ever. After seeing the team dismantle in front of your eyes, losing trust in the coaching team, the way the team regrouped and pulled off one of the best achievements in the modern era - that was a great feeling. Yet you get ignoramoses hateful of this success who just blame the system. 3 in a row was amazing - a couple of cup final wins short of a dynasty IMO. Who knows when that will happen again

 

[WireMan]

Are you for real mate? I watched leeds for 18 years before they won anything! And what has the big city got to do with it? Saints and Wigan fans might add their two pennies worth....

Winning from 5th was the best feeling ever. After seeing the team dismantle in front of your eyes, losing trust in the coaching team, the way the team regrouped and pulled off one of the best achievements in the modern era - that was a great feeling. Yet you get ignoramoses hateful of this success who just blame the system. 3 in a row was amazing - a couple of cup final wins short of a dynasty IMO. Who knows when that will happen again

Leeds are one of the biggest teams in the country, in a city that is trying to be the Manchester of Yorkshire. You have nothing to prove over any of your neighbours. Leeds is not defined over whether they are better than Wakey, Bradford or Cas on a rugby pitch.

Wigan and Saints are both known for there Rugby team like Warrington. Who said different? Do you know anything else these places are famous for or do? They won a lot more than Warrington over time. Hence why it was such a big thing to beat them. A thing that has been lost thanks to the SKY TV cup.

Winning from 5th was great eh? Well i'm glad for you Leeds are alright. Shame about the league losing any meaning, but Leeds are fine. The RFL doing its job nicely.

 

[LeedsStorm]

My heart bleeds for you mate. You and your lowly small time club with rich financial backer

Now, is the "sky cup" the playoffs or the actual cup, given that they now show both? Bang goes that conspiracy theory

Jeezus. And I thought storm fans whinged a lot

 

[WireMan]

My heart bleeds for you mate. You and your lowly small time club with rich financial backer

Now, is the "sky cup" the playoffs or the actual cup, given that they now show both? Bang goes that conspiracy theory

Jeezus. And I thought storm fans whinged a lot

I'lll be sure to tune into the actual cup final on sky then...

I'm sure its relevant when Sky set up a comp many years before they buy the rights to a few rounds of the actual cup. I can't see why, but i'm sure it relevant or you would not of said it. As that would be silly.

Don't get all heart bleeding for me mate, we have turned it around. Rugby league is growing in the nice side of the pennines despite the RFL. We all have nice stadiums (with a roof on all stands!!), Widnes back is nice. All we need now is league worth winning and we can continue to grow.

 

[LeedsStorm]

So now you are saying RFL favour yorkshire clubs? This is priceless

 

[WireMan]

So now you are saying RFL favour yorkshire clubs? This is priceless

Did I?

I said rugby was growing around here despite the RFL. Don't give a stuff about Yorkshire clubs and there relations to the RFL to be honest. ;-)

 

[Didgi]

Any reason the game this morning started an hour early? Wasn't too happy to switch on a game half over.

 

[LeedsRhinos]

The kick off time is the same as always 8pm but the clocks went forward an hour last Saturday.