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Farah or Buderus?

Farah or Buderus


  • Total voters
    186

Eddie.

Bench
Messages
4,188
I would like to see people actually debate the differet aspects of the 2 respective players games. Rather then just Say Farah is better because he is younger, or Buderus is better because he has done it for 5 years bla bla bla.

For Mine Farah has it all over Buderus in terms of attacking creativity and setting up tries. Robbie has had 7 tries assists in his last 2 games, and over 30 during his short career. That is a pretty amazing stat for a number 9 - they are the stats of halfbacks. And im not talking about tries where farah passes to Benji, who sets up someone else, Im talking try assits that lead from directly Robbie Farah. Im Sure Dany does not match this stat.

In terms of kicking game it's a bit of a no contest. Farah has one of the best short kicking games in the business. Again he has probably set up 10/15 tries with his left foot grubber kicks.

Both have line breaking ability. For mine farah makes more clean breaks, like 30-40 metre efforts that lead to tries. Buderus makes alot more 10/15 half breaks where he catches the defence napping time and time again.

Buderus probably has it over Farah in terms of consistency in option taking. You rarely see Buderus take the wrong option, very calculated player. Farah still sometimes throws a couple of wild passes, gets his hand slapped and drops the ball, or runs back into the markers for no gain. Buderus rarely makes these errors, however in sayng that Robbie only makes these mistakes by taking risks, risks that often lead directly to tries.

Then you have defense/fitness/toughness where Buderus also comes out on top. Farah was only a 45/55 minute player last season and often got a bit tired around the middle of the ruck. he has clearly worked on this and is now as close to an 80 minute number 9 as there is.

For Mine the main stat is creativity and try assists, as even most averages number 9 can defend well and take decent options.
 

hybrid_tiger

Coach
Messages
11,684
shadow grinder said:
dunno...just think he is better.

i mean he must be alright....he has played SOO for the past few years.

Never said he wasn't a good player. But he doesn't have Farah's creativity in attack. He is probably a better defender than Farah though. (although not by much)

Great post Eddie.
 

brook

First Grade
Messages
5,065
Bedsy - but Farah is close behind and will get his turn.

In saying that I wouldn't swap Robbie for any other player in the game, but thats taking into account how good I think he will be and not only where he's at now.
 

brook

First Grade
Messages
5,065
shadow grinder said:
nah i disagree smith is great in attack. better kicking game aswell.

Sheens has been holding robbies kicking back a bit up until now its really only this year he's starting to show what he can do in that regard.

Robbies kicking game is first class though and he has the best long kicking game in our club by a LONG way.
 

Mr Saab

Referee
Messages
27,762
Buderus is better than Farrah.
It is all about consistency and Buderus has that. He has been around for 5 yrs or so in the hooking role (NSW) and has been a standout performer.
Farah is good, but is only a johnny come lately.
Farahs 30 odd games are not going to overshadow what Buderus has been over the last 120 plus.
 

Eddie.

Bench
Messages
4,188
Mr Saab said:
Buderus is better than Farrah.
It is all about consistency and Buderus has that. He has been around for 5 yrs or so in the hooking role (NSW) and has been a standout performer.
Farah is good, but is only a johnny come lately.
Farahs 30 odd games are not going to overshadow what Buderus has been over the last 120 plus.

I think your missing the point.

Don't get me wrong your probably in the majority that think Buderus is better. I have no problem with that. However can you argue, in terms of the aspects of a number 9's game?. Rather then trot out tired cliches like "its all about consistency" , is that the consistency that farah set up more tries per game then Danny?, is that the consistency in kicking game?, consistency in option taking?. Trotting out that, Buderus has played more games and more rep games so he must be better is not the point of the debate.
 

Mr Saab

Referee
Messages
27,762
Fair point, but consistency are how players are judged.
Ewan McGrady had a gun yr in 1991 and probably was "better" than Langer/Stuart/Alexander that yr, but what happened after that?
I am not saying Farrah is a one yr wonder, but he is not better than Buderus.
Robbie is very good out of dummy half and has a good kicking game, but Danny's skills overshadow Robbies at this point in time.
And please dont trot out the stats argument, they are for 10 yr olds.
 

hybrid_tiger

Coach
Messages
11,684
Mr Saab said:
but Danny's skills overshadow Robbies at this point in time.

I don't think so.

Consistency wise Buderus is undoubtedly #1, but IMO Farah's skills certainly overshadow Danny's right now.
 

Eddie.

Bench
Messages
4,188
Mr Saab said:
Fair point, but consistency are how players are judged.
Ewan McGrady had a gun yr in 1991 and probably was "better" than Langer/Stuart/Alexander that yr, but what happened after that?
I am not saying Farrah is a one yr wonder, but he is not better than Buderus.
Robbie is very good out of dummy half and has a good kicking game, but Danny's skills overshadow Robbies at this point in time.
And please dont trot out the stats argument, they are for 10 yr olds.

Sabb, your getting closer to the point, but not quite there. Again a very generalised comment. Which of Danny's skills overshadow Robbies? please elaborate

As for stats being for 10 years olds, some may be. It is a stat that Robbie has more try assists per game game then Buderus, do you not see that as an important aspect of a number 9's game? It is a stat that Buderus has played more rep games then Farah - stats are for 10 year olds though so that doesn't matter.

I agree that their are some misleading stats in the game, stats like tackle counts and amount of hit ups can be take with a grain of salt at times. However a stat like try assists is a fairly honest one.
 

strewth_mate

Bench
Messages
2,989
Farah is more of a playmaker in general play than Buderus. He'll do his flashy stuff, it'll come off, and he's brilliant for that.

However, and I can't help but be biased here so forgive me for that, every time something needs to be done for the Knights it's almost always Buderus that does it and rarely fails.

What it seems to come down to is spark. Farah has a lot more spark than Buderus. He excites the crowd and gets the team fired up with a bit of individual flair. Really, who wants to see a hooker that only passes the ball to first receiver? This is what frustrates the hell out of me about Buderus in rep games, he never seems to DO anything in attack. Then someone like Wing comes on and makes a darting run, and everyone says 'about bloody time'.

Buderus is more than capable of that kind of play and he does actually do stuff for Newcastle. There's a reason why most Knights fans give Buderus points in our player of the week polls just about every week, whether it's a huge win or a crushing loss. He is at the centre of everything that Newcastle does and that's why I wouldn't swap him for anyone at Newcastle. His presence and efforts mean much more than individual stats.

But when it comes down to it, for me it's like comparing Schifcofske and Bowen, or Thurston and Johns, or Fittler and Campbell. Everyone wants someone in their side that makes 10 linebreaks a game, 5 try assists, puts a couple of chips over the top, worries the defense with every touch of the ball and make 40 metres from dummy half. It makes sense. Buderus isn't that player. It isn't his job in the team.

Where it gets unbalanced is, in reality, a lot of people would want their entire team to be flashy like that. Put a Bowen at fullback, one in each of the three-quarter positions, for both halves, at hooker and maybe a couple on the bench and you'd have a pretty gun team. In that instance, it'd probably make the more traditional position specialists look obsolete and struggling, and you'd question their role in the team when it's obvious Bowen would have more attacking spark than Bowman, so why put up with someone who's just 'safe'?

In that way it's increasingly difficult to elect who is more suitable for which role on the field. 5/8's today are either running support players with some ball skill, who could also play in the forwards, or quick and agile buggers that add more options, and could also do so from fullback. Some hookers can play at halfback, some bench players could do a capable job anywhere on the field. It's up to what the team needs and in a lot of teams now, position and number on the jersey is really a formality that doesn't indicate the role of the player. In a way, I tend to think a reliance on a flashy hooker means a deficiency in attack somewhere else on the field, but for a team like the Tigers that really isn't the case; Farah's just that good a player.

I'm only trying to justify the necessity of Buderus because Farah makes him look bad with his attacking play. But I don't really think you can assess a player, especially in this position sometimes looked at as a berth for utility players (and busy wingers), by a comparison of stats. It's a struggle with no chance of convincing anyone, but really it's 'just the vibe of the thing' ;-)

(by the way, they're both good players...)
 

salivor

First Grade
Messages
9,804
If we're talking about who is better right now then it's Buderus, thats a no-brainer. He looked a bit tired and out of it last year and I thought that may be the beginning of a slide for him but he's been brilliant this year.

If we're talking about who would I take for my team though? Farrah hands down as he has the potential to be better than Buderus is and was at the peak of his powers IMO.
 
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