Farrah v Ennis

[watatank]

Yes and 'service from dummy half' always looks so much more impressive when you have three or four forwards running with some intent. Goodness me, even Ben Creagh found his testicles last night

You could argue that Ennis was better at playing direct and the forwards took advantage of his slick passing as well.

 

[watatank]

Having said all that and I say this with no cynicism or sarcasm, if all NSW wants from their hooker is good service and no missed tackles then they don't need Farah.

tbh we need more than that but we can't afford to carry Farah into a game if he was passing like he was in the first two matches. He doesn't have to be able to give the best service but he still needs to be good. If you look at Cameron Smith, he's there for more than his service from dummy half (great defender, organiser, takes right options) but it's still quite good. I don't think Farah was good enough in the first two matches and that's not to say he doesn't have it in him but he was poor IMO. Granted Farah is much better than that and I'm sure there are reasons for why he didn't perform in the first two matches (possibly carrying injuries, even into game 1?), but you'd probably know better than me.

 

[ouwet]

Not really a scientific appraisal there old boy. Wing's contribution had nothing to do with 'service', it had more to do with his metres from dummy half. In fact Bellamy erred in bringing Ennis back on last night, since Wing played wonderfully again and conceivably should have had at least another 10 minutes. Don't think Ennis was 'perfect' by any stretch, 'tradesmanlike' is a more fitting description. By the way, I know emotion can sometimes take over, but Ennis made 18 tackles, not 'over 20'.

LOL... Is it a fact? A fact you took out of your arse? If Bellamy didn't want too, Bellamy didn't have too! Stop talking crap! Face the fact Magpies supporter, Ennis >>>>>> Farah as shown by the Bulldogs & Tigers this year and Origin!

 

[ouwet]

All I'm saying is, Ennis didn't do anything particularly well last night. Did nothing wrong, but I don't think he did anything De Gois/Friend/Payne/Henderson/Most other hookers could do. He gave crisp service from dummy half and put one poor kick in. If that's all NSW wants from a hooker then fine pick him.

That's the point... That's Origin mate that's why all those hookers won't be playing origin. Where was Cameron Smith? Was he missing in action? All he does in origin is give great service out of dummy half and kicks the odd ball... He does his job no fuss! Farah is a show pony, his whole game is based on being the main playmaker out of dummy half and it doesn't work in Origin... It might work in the NRL but Origin is a whole new level!

Ennis>>>>Farah in Origin!

 

[the kirwan kid]

Brilliant synopsis mate......'Ennis is betta dan der uvver bloke, so der'....lol

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

 

[Joker's Wild]

So the second-best hooker in the game will never play origin?

You know that Farah is second in line for an australian hooker jumper right?

:lol: No he is not mate. He's not even the 2nd best hooker in NSW

 

[TimmyB]

That's the point... That's Origin mate that's why all those hookers won't be playing origin. Where was Cameron Smith? Was he missing in action? All he does in origin is give great service out of dummy half and kicks the odd ball... He does his job no fuss! Farah is a show pony, his whole game is based on being the main playmaker out of dummy half and it doesn't work in Origin... It might work in the NRL but Origin is a whole new level!

Ennis>>>>Farah in Origin!

Ah, clearly that was a typo. I would have thought the context would have given that away. But just for you, I'll clarify that I meant that all those hookers listed could have done what Ennis did last night. He gave good service and ran well from but any of the blokes I listed are capable of giving crisp service from dummy half. Ennis is capable of a lot more than what he displayed last night - it's a put down to him to suggest otherwise. By way of example, he put in only one (shocking) kick from dummy half. Are you trying to tell me kicking from dummy half doesn't work in origin? Might be news for Cam Smith.

As for Farah's style of play, you've got no idea whether or not it works in origin. Like I said, watch the first 10 minutes of origin 1 again. Farah took complete control of the team and they were going fine. There was a near 40/20, a disallowed (but arguably fair) try and if he had of passed behind Creagh (I think it was) he had created an overlap with a run around from dummy half. For whatever reason, he went well into his shell after that. Honestly, if you've got it on tape, watch it objectively and you'll see he looked slick initially.

Ennis had a tremendous advantage in the forwards wednesday night. Sure some of it was due to his service, but you can't deny there was a huge jump in the intensity of the blues' forwards. Every commentator and pundit noted the leap in passion and committment of the team. Look at the speed of the play the ball as well. I don't think there was one instance in the match last night were the Blues were pinned inside the 20, which occurred with reasonable frequency in the first two matches. You can't tell me that all these improvements - in intensity, commitment and control of the ruck were because Ennis' persence at hooker. But he certainly benefited from it.

Anyway, I'm going to try and leave this thread now, though if something intentionally inflammatory is said I may be back...

 

[Charlie124]

Farah blows goats.

 

[ouwet]

Ah, clearly that was a typo. I would have thought the context would have given that away. But just for you, I'll clarify that I meant that all those hookers listed could have done what Ennis did last night. He gave good service and ran well from but any of the blokes I listed are capable of giving crisp service from dummy half. Ennis is capable of a lot more than what he displayed last night - it's a put down to him to suggest otherwise. By way of example, he put in only one (shocking) kick from dummy half. Are you trying to tell me kicking from dummy half doesn't work in origin? Might be news for Cam Smith.

As for Farah's style of play, you've got no idea whether or not it works in origin. Like I said, watch the first 10 minutes of origin 1 again. Farah took complete control of the team and they were going fine. There was a near 40/20, a disallowed (but arguably fair) try and if he had of passed behind Creagh (I think it was) he had created an overlap with a run around from dummy half. For whatever reason, he went well into his shell after that. Honestly, if you've got it on tape, watch it objectively and you'll see he looked slick initially.

Ennis had a tremendous advantage in the forwards wednesday night. Sure some of it was due to his service, but you can't deny there was a huge jump in the intensity of the blues' forwards. Every commentator and pundit noted the leap in passion and committment of the team. Look at the speed of the play the ball as well. I don't think there was one instance in the match last night were the Blues were pinned inside the 20, which occurred with reasonable frequency in the first two matches. You can't tell me that all these improvements - in intensity, commitment and control of the ruck were because Ennis' persence at hooker. But he certainly benefited from it.

Anyway, I'm going to try and leave this thread now, though if something intentionally inflammatory is said I may be back...

All fair enough but at the end of the day... Ennis deserves and will get 1st crack next year!

 

[Forth & Clyde]

LOL... Is it a fact? A fact you took out of your arse? If Bellamy didn't want too, Bellamy didn't have too! Stop talking crap! Face the fact Magpies supporter, Ennis >>>>>> Farah as shown by the Bulldogs & Tigers this year and Origin!

'Groundhog Day' then ?, as you wish. Must admit I have never had a discussion where the basis for the opposite view is x > y.........is that the Hezbollah style of debate then ?

 

[dovif]

Ah, clearly that was a typo. I would have thought the context would have given that away. But just for you, I'll clarify that I meant that all those hookers listed could have done what Ennis did last night. He gave good service and ran well from but any of the blokes I listed are capable of giving crisp service from dummy half. Ennis is capable of a lot more than what he displayed last night - it's a put down to him to suggest otherwise. By way of example, he put in only one (shocking) kick from dummy half. Are you trying to tell me kicking from dummy half doesn't work in origin? Might be news for Cam Smith.

As for Farah's style of play, you've got no idea whether or not it works in origin. Like I said, watch the first 10 minutes of origin 1 again. Farah took complete control of the team and they were going fine. There was a near 40/20, a disallowed (but arguably fair) try and if he had of passed behind Creagh (I think it was) he had created an overlap with a run around from dummy half. For whatever reason, he went well into his shell after that. Honestly, if you've got it on tape, watch it objectively and you'll see he looked slick initially.

Ennis had a tremendous advantage in the forwards wednesday night. Sure some of it was due to his service, but you can't deny there was a huge jump in the intensity of the blues' forwards. Every commentator and pundit noted the leap in passion and committment of the team. Look at the speed of the play the ball as well. I don't think there was one instance in the match last night were the Blues were pinned inside the 20, which occurred with reasonable frequency in the first two matches. You can't tell me that all these improvements - in intensity, commitment and control of the ruck were because Ennis' persence at hooker. But he certainly benefited from it.

Anyway, I'm going to try and leave this thread now, though if something intentionally inflammatory is said I may be back...

Sorry disagree completely with your assessment of Farah

I think Farah was the reason NSW was not going fine in game 1 and game 2 and we were outplayed in the forwards. Not having Farah there was why the forward was better in game 3.

The reason is that Farah tried to ball play too much from the hooker role in game 1 and 2, as I said earlier, ever 2-3 plays, Farah tried to run from dummy half from a standing start, and if the markers was catching him, he dumps the ball to the charging forward. The forward meanwhile has to stop wait for Farah to pass and losses all momentum.

The difference in game 3 was that Ennis (who I dislike) gave earlier ball, did not look to run every play, only ran when the markers was out of position. The forward did not lose momentum and the NSW forward played better and made more meters.

Farah was the reason the NSW forwards was not as good in the first 2 games, it was because Farah tried to be involve in every play and did not wait for his opportunities.

A case in point is in game two, we were 10 meters out, instead of giving the quick ball to Creagh, Farah took 2 steps out of dummy half, was concentrating on the marker, as they converge on him, he threw a no look pass to Creagh, the ball went to noone and the Maroon scored. Most hooker would have just rucked it out of the 20, giving the quick ball, they might not get noticed, but it is effective. Farah tried to get noticed, and cost us a try.

The same goes for the later tackles, Farah tried to run too many plays off himself, while Ennis delivered the early ball to Kimmorley and Barrett, in game 3, we were able to move the ball wider, creating the Creagh try and allowing Hayne more room to move. We had more width in the 3rd game because of Ennis.

Until Farah learns that he is not the "star" in SOO (unlike West Tigers) and wait for his opportunities at State of Origin level, he is going to be a hindrance.

Yes, a lot of players can deliever what Ennis did in game 3, that is to give the forwards better service and get the ball to Kimmorley earlier so we can get outside the Maroon's forwards ... but we were not getting that from Farah. Farah was stopping our hit ups and stopping the ball from going wide, at west tigers, where Benji can create his own room, that can work, at SOO, it does not

 

[mepelthwack]

Farah blows goats.

Farah will tear the Cowgirls apart, just like in the 05 Grand Final and just like every time the 2 teams play.

No wonder you hate him lol.

 

[lifesgood]

As for Farah's style of play, you've got no idea whether or not it works in origin. Like I said, watch the first 10 minutes of origin 1 again. Farah took complete control of the team and they were going fine. There was a near 40/20, a disallowed (but arguably fair) try and if he had of passed behind Creagh (I think it was) he had created an overlap with a run around from dummy half. For whatever reason, he went well into his shell after that. Honestly, if you've got it on tape, watch it objectively and you'll see he looked slick initially.


.

Farahs style of play and him wanting to be the number one play maker comes from the Tigers, and him neednig to be number one play maker.

If NSW give him more time and work on him, instead of getting rid of him after one bad game, he will change his game in origin and will be awesome player

 

[Charlie124]

Farah will tear the Cowgirls apart, just like in the 05 Grand Final and just like every time the 2 teams play.

No wonder you hate him lol.

Round 2 this year - Cowboys 42 def. Tigpies 14 :sarcasm:

If i was going to hate someone for the 2005 GF it would be Benji Marshall and Scott Prince, they're the ones who did the damage. But i dont hate either of them, in fact im a huge fan of Scott Prince.

 

[Charlie124]

Farahs style of play and him wanting to be the number one play maker comes from the Tigers, and him neednig to be number one play maker.

If NSW give him more time and work on him, instead of getting rid of him after one bad game, he will change his game in origin and will be awesome player

Why do any of that and put up with his rubbish performances when they have Ennis proving himself right now??

Farah had his shot and blew it, now he'll fade off into the Origin history books as just another guy who couldnt handle the big stage. If NSW havent learned and moved on from the Farah experience, they should have.

 

[TimmyB]

Sorry disagree completely with your assessment of Farah

I think Farah was the reason NSW was not going fine in game 1 and game 2 and we were outplayed in the forwards. Not having Farah there was why the forward was better in game 3.

The reason is that Farah tried to ball play too much from the hooker role in game 1 and 2, as I said earlier, ever 2-3 plays, Farah tried to run from dummy half from a standing start, and if the markers was catching him, he dumps the ball to the charging forward. The forward meanwhile has to stop wait for Farah to pass and losses all momentum.

The difference in game 3 was that Ennis (who I dislike) gave earlier ball, did not look to run every play, only ran when the markers was out of position. The forward did not lose momentum and the NSW forward played better and made more meters.

Farah was the reason the NSW forwards was not as good in the first 2 games, it was because Farah tried to be involve in every play and did not wait for his opportunities.

A case in point is in game two, we were 10 meters out, instead of giving the quick ball to Creagh, Farah took 2 steps out of dummy half, was concentrating on the marker, as they converge on him, he threw a no look pass to Creagh, the ball went to noone and the Maroon scored. Most hooker would have just rucked it out of the 20, giving the quick ball, they might not get noticed, but it is effective. Farah tried to get noticed, and cost us a try.

The same goes for the later tackles, Farah tried to run too many plays off himself, while Ennis delivered the early ball to Kimmorley and Barrett, in game 3, we were able to move the ball wider, creating the Creagh try and allowing Hayne more room to move. We had more width in the 3rd game because of Ennis.

Until Farah learns that he is not the "star" in SOO (unlike West Tigers) and wait for his opportunities at State of Origin level, he is going to be a hindrance.

Yes, a lot of players can deliever what Ennis did in game 3, that is to give the forwards better service and get the ball to Kimmorley earlier so we can get outside the Maroon's forwards ... but we were not getting that from Farah. Farah was stopping our hit ups and stopping the ball from going wide, at west tigers, where Benji can create his own room, that can work, at SOO, it does not

Thanks, I appreciate the analysis rather than just Farah is sh*t.

I think there's a lot of truth in what you wrote and I'm not so sure it's totally it's totally incongruous with what I've said however. No doubt Ennis' service from dummy half was slicker than Farah's and he had a far better understanding with the forwards. Conversely, Farah badly lacked cohesion and there were times were the forwards overran him because he'd stuttered. I wrote at half time in game 1 that I thought part of the problem was that he is a pretty unconventional hooker - he often takes a few steps from dummyhalf. Our forwards never overrun him or lose their momentum, probably because they're used to adjusting their runs to Farah's service. Perhaps this isn't viable at state of origin level. I've got no doubt he could adjust his game and pass straight from dummy half ala Ennis last night. But then that maybe that nullifies the qualties he would bring to the field.

Anyway, I do differ in your willingness to pin the poor performance of the forwards solely on Farah's back - at least in game 1. You can't deny the Blues were up for the match in a way they haven't been all series. Like I said, the universal comment in the media has been to question where the passion was in previous games.


I agree entirely that Ennis has the jump on Farah for the record. Clearly it's his jumper to lose now. I think it's harsh to write him off completely. I'm sure he learned a lot from the two games he played.

 

[TimmyB]

Why do any of that and put up with his rubbish performances when they have Ennis proving himself right now??

Farah had his shot and blew it, now he'll fade off into the Origin history books as just another guy who couldnt handle the big stage. If NSW havent learned and moved on from the Farah experience, they should have.

One name. Hodges.

Would it have been fair to say unable to handle the big stage after his first game? Would it have been correct?

 

[Charlie124]

The thing that i think saved Hodges is that his mistakes didnt matter in the end, we won the game. He got hooked from the field and dropped for the rest of the series.

The other thing is that Wing (where Hodges was playing at the time) is nowhere near as important as Hooker. NSW dont have time to wait around until little Robbie feels good about himself enough to put in a good game of football, he isnt a special tallent that you have to protect and work on over time, he's very easily replacable.

 

[tiger_nick]

Sorry disagree completely with your assessment of Farah

I think Farah was the reason NSW was not going fine in game 1 and game 2 and we were outplayed in the forwards. Not having Farah there was why the forward was better in game 3.

The reason is that Farah tried to ball play too much from the hooker role in game 1 and 2, as I said earlier, ever 2-3 plays, Farah tried to run from dummy half from a standing start, and if the markers was catching him, he dumps the ball to the charging forward. The forward meanwhile has to stop wait for Farah to pass and losses all momentum.

The difference in game 3 was that Ennis (who I dislike) gave earlier ball, did not look to run every play, only ran when the markers was out of position. The forward did not lose momentum and the NSW forward played better and made more meters.

Farah was the reason the NSW forwards was not as good in the first 2 games, it was because Farah tried to be involve in every play and did not wait for his opportunities.

A case in point is in game two, we were 10 meters out, instead of giving the quick ball to Creagh, Farah took 2 steps out of dummy half, was concentrating on the marker, as they converge on him, he threw a no look pass to Creagh, the ball went to noone and the Maroon scored. Most hooker would have just rucked it out of the 20, giving the quick ball, they might not get noticed, but it is effective. Farah tried to get noticed, and cost us a try.

The same goes for the later tackles, Farah tried to run too many plays off himself, while Ennis delivered the early ball to Kimmorley and Barrett, in game 3, we were able to move the ball wider, creating the Creagh try and allowing Hayne more room to move. We had more width in the 3rd game because of Ennis.

Until Farah learns that he is not the "star" in SOO (unlike West Tigers) and wait for his opportunities at State of Origin level, he is going to be a hindrance.

Yes, a lot of players can deliever what Ennis did in game 3, that is to give the forwards better service and get the ball to Kimmorley earlier so we can get outside the Maroon's forwards ... but we were not getting that from Farah. Farah was stopping our hit ups and stopping the ball from going wide, at west tigers, where Benji can create his own room, that can work, at SOO, it does not

has anyone thought that farah and ennis were both just following game plans?

farah was the first nsw player picked and both bellamy and johns called him and spoke tactics the night before anyone else knew they were playing.

farah only had a 10m break in both games whilst ennis had about a 30m one.

to me it was obvious the tactics were for farah to ball play and kick, but he got no support at all. ennis's role was to deliever to the forwards, to which they delievered.

if ennis gets first crack next year you'll hear no complaints from me. but to label farah as 'not an origin player' is just ridiculous imo

 

[dovif]

Thanks, I appreciate the analysis rather than just Farah is sh*t.

I think there's a lot of truth in what you wrote and I'm not so sure it's totally it's totally incongruous with what I've said however. No doubt Ennis' service from dummy half was slicker than Farah's and he had a far better understanding with the forwards. Conversely, Farah badly lacked cohesion and there were times were the forwards overran him because he'd stuttered. I wrote at half time in game 1 that I thought part of the problem was that he is a pretty unconventional hooker - he often takes a few steps from dummyhalf. Our forwards never overrun him or lose their momentum, probably because they're used to adjusting their runs to Farah's service. Perhaps this isn't viable at state of origin level. I've got no doubt he could adjust his game and pass straight from dummy half ala Ennis last night. But then that maybe that nullifies the qualties he would bring to the field.

Anyway, I do differ in your willingness to pin the poor performance of the forwards solely on Farah's back - at least in game 1. You can't deny the Blues were up for the match in a way they haven't been all series. Like I said, the universal comment in the media has been to question where the passion was in previous games.


I agree entirely that Ennis has the jump on Farah for the record. Clearly it's his jumper to lose now. I think it's harsh to write him off completely. I'm sure he learned a lot from the two games he played.

I still thinks Farah is a good player, he just need to learn when to ball play at state of origin level.

I will bring up another example, Michael Weyman, he played much better at StG than SOO 1 and 2, he is an "advantage line" runner, he build up momentum during the play the ball and needs a flat ball at the advantage line to pound into the defense, Farah atm is not the hooker to give him the ball.

But if Farah can learn to give the quick ball, as well pick the time to run out of dummy half, he can be better than both Smith and Ennis