Five Gone - Confirmed

[Dragonslayer]

OK who else was really in the mix for Graham & Hunt?
We got Hunt because we paid a huge fee at the time for a player no longer required at the Broncos and Graham would have remained a Dog forever but they pushed him out and paid half of his salary for the 1st year and no top 6 team showed any interest in signing him so we became the next best option.
Dufty got to 1st garde in 2017 as a result of Duges going to centre to cover off the injury to Aitken.
If Duges had of been given a new contract the coach said he was the 1st grade FB so only by Duges going and no other FB being signed did Dufty get the nod ahead of Millward's choice of Field so get your facts correct.
I also said the newbies only get their shot due to injuries and not as part of proper development programme.

Your last paragraph OT is the most interesting one for me.
If (and its a suspect if), we have a development program, it appears to be stymied at the coaching level. You're correct that opportunity at the Dragons only comes via injury or suspension. Dufty, Lomax, Lawrie and even Periera were only given their chance via injury.
Dufty = Aitken
Lomax = Aitken
Lawrie = Vaughan
Periera = Nene and Nighty

Head is suppised to be the transition coach via ISP. However, I dot see ant player, Lomax excluded that is transitionally ready for 1st grade. Herbert, unless he was a poor trainer with attitude, should have been ready for immediate placement when one of our backs went down. But nowhere to be seen.

The other block is McGregor who likes his favourites, no matter how bad they play, and those with "experience", no matter how they play.

Talent is sometimes hidden by bureaucracy. Yesterday, I commented on JAC. He was playing U20's for the Sharks but unwanted after that, only signed a 1yr deal at the Tigers (nirmalky 1yr deaks are for depth players only), and they were happy to let him go. Now a SOO and maybe future Aust rep. The Sharks would be kicking themselves now.

Our youngsters have to be something out of the box, but even then they only get a run when our ciaching staff lose their blinkers.

 

[Old Timer]

Your last paragraph OT is the most interesting one for me.
If (and its a suspect if), we have a development program, it appears to be stymied at the coaching level. You're correct that opportunity at the Dragons only comes via injury or suspension. Dufty, Lomax, Lawrie and even Periera were only given their chance via injury.
Dufty = Aitken
Lomax = Aitken
Lawrie = Vaughan
Periera = Nene and Nighty

Head is suppised to be the transition coach via ISP. However, I dot see ant player, Lomax excluded that is transitionally ready for 1st grade. Herbert, unless he was a poor trainer with attitude, should have been ready for immediate placement when one of our backs went down. But nowhere to be seen.

The other block is McGregor who likes his favourites, no matter how bad they play, and those with "experience", no matter how they play.

Talent is sometimes hidden by bureaucracy. Yesterday, I commented on JAC. He was playing U20's for the Sharks but unwanted after that, only signed a 1yr deal at the Tigers (nirmalky 1yr deaks are for depth players only), and they were happy to let him go. Now a SOO and maybe future Aust rep. The Sharks would be kicking themselves now.

Our youngsters have to be something out of the box, but even then they only get a run when our ciaching staff lose their blinkers.

Latimore, Nicholls are anomalies to me and IMO restrict the pathway of younger talent.
Nicholls should never have been signed and Latimore should be the captain in ISP.
No doubt not all the young players are going to make it but surely Herbert was worth a run to find out how he would go at a higher level but no we let him go to sign a player who is also unproven at NRL level and the other only 11 games in 3 years.
I questioned the Nene signing when it happened for the the now very obvious reasons that he doesn't settle at any club he is at but we have endured his poor attitude and spasmodic form and Herbert didn't even get a chance.
I will be very interested to see how Host is handled in this next year because he will be another that will be gone if we don't give him a proper opportunity.
Now in the end he might not make it but better we find that out rather than have it bight us on the arse.
The stupid thing is we should have already known the answer by now but the jury is still out on him with the coach and the club yet Latimore who can't do any better than what he does retains a spot in the top 17.

 

[Dorothy the Winowhore]

OT......do you think the club should have given Herbert his chance in 1st grade, after he had told them he and his partner want to move back home closer to family, and would not renew or sign another contract at Dragons? We did the right thing.

 

[Old Timer]

If you read my edited post, you would've seen I worded it better by saying Dufty got to show his skills due to injury in 2017, but earned his position at the start of this year. Not Duftys fault Dugan signed elsewhere. The opportunity opened up and Dufty showed he deserved a shot at it. Now, can you tell me which rookies don't get their start due to injuries? To me that is pretty common throughout all clubs. Remember Ponga showing his skills on the Cowboys wing when Winterstein was out? Can think of hundreds more just like that.

And again, possum stated we don't sign big names.....a Kangaroo and a Pom International are big name signings. He didn't say anything about whether they were being chased by any other clubs. And you say we only got the Hunt signature because we offered him a bigger deal. Isnt that what one has to do to win a much needed signature? Again, you are clutching at straws.....we signed 2 big names for season 2018, and we are developing juniors.

We obviously don't agree on what constitutes a "big name" or what constitutes us being gifted a player or actually signing him despite all other offers.
Graham's best is a couple of seasons a go and has no upside other than his passion and leadership so IMO no longer a big name.
Hunt is certainly the best half we have had in years but the jury still out as to how good he is and whether he can settle at our club and in that position so a good player bordering on a big name but certainly not elite.

 

[Old Timer]

OT......do you think the club should have given Herbert his chance in 1st grade, after he had told them he and his partner want to move back home closer to family, and would not renew or sign another contract at Dragons? We did the right thing.

That is certainly news to me when was that made apparent?

 

[Dorothy the Winowhore]

We also lost Garrick and Johns (supposedly)......they need to be replaced too. You do that by signing guys like Pearson and Ravalawa, not Radradra and Oates.

 

[Dorothy the Winowhore]

That is certainly news to me when was that made apparent?

It was not made apparent because it is nobody elses business

 

[possm]

You mean like signing Ben Hunt and James Graham, 2 Internationals, and developing Zac Lomax, Matt Dufty, or Luciano Leilua, or even a fully developed junior like Jack Debelin?

Yeah, what a shame our club can't do stuff like that

You'll get no argument from me about the handful of great players we have in our squad. I'm talking about the back 5 and the absence on one more decent prop in the forwards.

At the moment I only have confidence in the suitability of one good player in our back 5.
Dufty is still on trial as far as I'm concerned. Defence, taking the high ball and positional play need addressing to make him safe at fullback.
Not sure who will be our wingers with both Mann and Macdonald leaving and Nightingale retired. The 3 juniors announced will be a risk that we may have to take if Millward does not come up with one or two experienced wingers with speed.
The centre positions are the real mess. Lomax should take right centre unless Dufty fails at fullback. We need a big fast centre to replace Lafai.

So still a long way from having a good backline and only one extra first grade prop away from having a forward pack that may go through the whole season without collapsing.

Sign Oats, a great centre and a first grade prop and we should be done.

 

[possm]

If you read my edited post, you would've seen I worded it better by saying Dufty got to show his skills due to injury in 2017, but earned his position at the start of this year. Not Duftys fault Dugan signed elsewhere. The opportunity opened up and Dufty showed he deserved a shot at it. Now, can you tell me which rookies don't get their start due to injuries? To me that is pretty common throughout all clubs. Remember Ponga showing his skills on the Cowboys wing when Winterstein was out? Can think of hundreds more just like that.

And again, possum stated we don't sign big names.....a Kangaroo and a Pom International are big name signings. He didn't say anything about whether they were being chased by any other clubs. And you say we only got the Hunt signature because we offered him a bigger deal. Isnt that what one has to do to win a much needed signature? Again, you are clutching at straws.....we signed 2 big names for season 2018, and we are developing juniors.

The Roosters signed Tedesco for 700k.
The Roosters lost Furguson and signed B Morris and Hall in replace.

We still need to sign a player like Oates and a first grade prop to have a chance to realize our potential.

 

[True_Believer]

I will be very interested to see how Host is handled in this next year because he will be another that will be gone if we don't give him a proper opportunity.

Maybe he doesn't deserve an opportunity? Just because you say he does doesn't mean it needs to happen.

 

[True_Believer]

The Roosters signed Tedesco for 700k.
The Roosters lost Furguson and signed B Morris and Hall in replace.

We still need to sign a player like Oates and a first grade prop to have a chance to realize our potential.

Tedesco cost is pure speculation.

The signing of Morris and Hall is not an upgrade.

 

[Dorothy the Winowhore]

Possm.....you said we don't sign big names and we don't develop juniors. I showed you that statement is wrong. So now are you saying we don't sign big names and develop juniors just for the back 5?

How many ISP games and under 20 games did you watch this year? I am not saying our development program is run correctly, and quite a few of these kids will not make 1st grade, but it is the same for every club....not just us.

And rookies being developed in all clubs will only get their opportunity through injuries.

And if you think Tedesco is only getting paid $700k, well you must really love Xmas with a real Santa. Roosters legally cheat the cap, and there are many clubs that can't do as they do.

 

[getsmarty]

Tedesco cost is pure speculation.

The signing of Morris and Hall is not an upgrade.

Correct..and if its 700k its probably another 500 in third party LOL

 

[Old Timer]

Maybe he doesn't deserve an opportunity? Just because you say he does doesn't mean it needs to happen.

Well Millward extended his contract last year so I suppose that means nothing does it or maybe you don't rate him?
If he had no future then why was he resigned?
No doubt his injury hampered his progress so as I say I will be interested to see how he is handled and if Mc Fookknuckle can wean himself off players past their prime.

 

[Old Timer]

It was not made apparent because it is nobody elses business

Well we can only comment on the situation based on evidence at hand so don't slap me around the head with something nobody in here is aware of except you evidently.

 

[possm]

Possm.....you said we don't sign big names and we don't develop juniors. I showed you that statement is wrong. So now are you saying we don't sign big names and develop juniors just for the back 5?

How many ISP games and under 20 games did you watch this year? I am not saying our development program is run correctly, and quite a few of these kids will not make 1st grade, but it is the same for every club....not just us.

And rookies being developed in all clubs will only get their opportunity through injuries.

And if you think Tedesco is only getting paid $700k, well you must really love Xmas with a real Santa. Roosters legally cheat the cap, and there are many clubs that can't do as they do.

It was reported that Tedesco signed a Rooster's NRL contact for 700k. To me it is obvious that a TPA for about 500k was also included.

I believe that Herbert who was developed by SGI would have made a good replacement for Lafai in 2019. Both he and Lomax were voted the best ISP centres for 2018.

So please tell me:

1. Who is our backup for Lafai?
2. Is Lafai's backup better than Herbert?
3. Who are our wingers for 2019?
4. Are these wingers better than Nightingale and Macdonald?
5. During the offseason will Dufty improve:
   1. His defence?
   2. His taking the high ball?
   3. His ositional play?
6. Where will Aitken play in 2019?

 

[giboz71]

OT......do you think the club should have given Herbert his chance in 1st grade, after he had told them he and his partner want to move back home closer to family, and would not renew or sign another contract at Dragons? We did the right thing.

Well if that’s imdeed true that might explain a few things. No point grving a guy FG minutes ahead of others if his intention was to leave.

He was certainly good enough to be least given a go.

 

[True_Believer]

Well Millward extended his contract last year so I suppose that means nothing does it or maybe you don't rate him?
If he had no future then why was he resigned?
No doubt his injury hampered his progress so as I say I will be interested to see how he is handled and if Mc Fookknuckle can wean himself off players past their prime.

You obviously rate Host because you've been banging on about him all year.

What's odd to me is that you don't think Millward is doing a good job - so did he get the signing right?

 

[True_Believer]

Well we can only comment on the situation based on evidence at hand so don't slap me around the head with something nobody in here is aware of except you evidently.

So what's different about this statement compared to the post about Host not being a part of Mary's 21 at the start of the season? You were keen to jump on that without anything other than someone's random statement.

 

[Dorothy the Winowhore]

It was reported that Tedesco signed a Rooster's NRL contact for 700k. To me it is obvious that a TPA for about 500k was also included.

I believe that Herbert who was developed by SGI would have made a good replacement for Lafai in 2019. Both he and Lomax were voted the best ISP centres for 2018.

So please tell me:

1. Who is our backup for Lafai?
2. Is Lafai's backup better than Herbert?
3. Who are our wingers for 2019?
4. Are these wingers better than Nightingale and Macdonald?
5. During the offseason will Dufty improve:
   1. His defence?
   2. His taking the high ball?
   3. His ositional play?
6. Where will Aitken play in 2019?

Umm, recruitment for 2019 is not finished yet, old mate. There is still 5 months before round 1. Have some patience, you will have all the answers you seek before then. As for individuals development, that really is up to the individual themselves. I can't tell you how Dufty will go next year. If he loses his shine, he loses his 1st grade spot.....up to him.

Oh, and Herbert wanted to go back to NZ.....not the recruitment managers fault.