Four nations - How the 4th teams compare

[Panfas]

Heres how each of the 3 '4th' nations compare. Discuss

France 2009
v Eng 12-34, v NZ 12-62, v Aus 4-42
For: 28
Against: 140
Difference: -112

PNG 2010
v Eng 10-36, V NZ 12-76, v Aus 0-42
For: 22
Against: 154
Difference: -132

Wales 2011
v Eng 4-42, v NZ 0-36, v Aus 14-56
For: 18
Against: 134
Difference: -116

 

[miguel de cervantes]

Only goes to show how much it is just a three horse race unfortunately.

It's the big 3 followed by a significant gap and then France, PNG and Wales at a similar level.

 

[Valheru]

I think the old tri-nations model is better.

However, they are to persist with the 4 team model they need to put a team in permanently and let them have at least 4 years to try and develop. France would be best suited with the professionalization of their domestic comp.

As for the other sides, they should play tournaments amongst themselves with the 3 best performers each year rewarded with a test or 2 against 1 or more of the top 3 as warm up for the 4 nations.

 

[adamkungl]

France, PNG, Wales would make an interesting tournament.

 

[JasonE]

Wales performances were more encouraging imo, PNG showed very little and had internal problems, France were up and down whilst Wales were fairly solid and consistent.

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

Wales were inspirational, France need a new coach and PNG need to stop the infighting.

I like the format we have, I wouldn't mind a 5 nations but I can live with this.

Give these sides more exposure to the top teams and they'll improve as their domestic and junior numbers improve.

 

[Fast Eddie]

Stick with the four nations. Wales and France have to get a good chance to improve.

 

[Mullins!!!]

Although the 4th team hasn't been that competitive they always add HEAPS! OF interest in the comp overall IMO. I mean I was so excited to see the minnows play in the hope of an upset. I reckon keep it too all '4th' nations mentioned have improved heaps in the last few years as a result!

 

[newman]

Instead of Northen Hemisphere or Southern Hemisphere qualification tournies, why not have a qualification tournament based on ranking? That way PNG, Wales and France (and maybe one other) play a half decent tournament in order to qualify.

 

[Fast Eddie]

Yeah not sure how it work necessarily but that could have qualifying tournament each year for France, PNG, Samoa, Tonga, Wales etc. Would give those teams more good competitive games int he process.

 

[billy2]

Take out the big 3 and about 6 or 8 sides would be fairly competitive with each other.

 

[bazza]

Stick with the four nations. Wales and France have to get a good chance to improve.

Yep - they will have 2 or 3 years to get better. In that time they should play some tough/easy games in the world cup and the qualifiers for the next 4 nations.

If France/Wales can get a few games against each other and similar standard teams as well that should help

 

[Valheru]

Wales were inspirational, France need a new coach and PNG need to stop the infighting.

I like the format we have, I wouldn't mind a 5 nations but I can live with this.

Give these sides more exposure to the top teams and they'll improve as their domestic and junior numbers improve.

I agree that they need the exposure; I am just not sure if the current system works.

Firstly, no team gets back to back chances due to the nature of how the 4th team is chosen (your 5 nations idea would alleviate this). Additionally, if the last few years are anything to go by it may be up to 4 or 5 years before a team gets another crack.

I really believe the future is France and giving them the spot permanently. They have the best chance of becoming competitive in the long run. I don’t believe the others will ever compete regularly with the top 3.

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

Na sorry, I disagree, let them fight it out, it'll mean more in the long run if you know what I mean and gives plenty something to strive for. Having a place automatically means they could rest on their laurels and say, who gives a shit, we are here, got the cash so who cares.

Having to fight from the beginning right through can and will put some spark amongst all the teams.

Look at Europe, they now have Fra, Sct, Wal, Ire all fighting, under that you have new nations wanting to crack the big time from lebanese, Ity, Russ, Serb, Uke and the like. It keeps them all wanting to improve and better themselves.

Then look at all the Pac nations fighting it out, if say they were joined by the likes of the USA, CAN, Jam and SA, it gives it meaning.

 

[hitman82]

I like the current format. While I do see the logic behind having a constant 4th team over a period of time, it's important for the "closer minnows" to have something to compete for.

I would love to see a 5 nations involving both France and Wales, but don't think it's realistic right now.

What I do want is some kind of total shut down of the NRL for the origin period, with a test series involving NZ and either an island team or a European team of some kind.

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

I like the current format. While I do see the logic behind having a constant 4th team over a period of time, it's important for the "closer minnows" to have something to compete for.

I would love to see a 5 nations involving both France and Wales, but don't think it's realistic right now.

What I do want is some kind of total shut down of the NRL for the origin period, with a test series involving NZ and either an island team or a European team of some kind.

Can't argue with that. agree100%.

 

[yakstorm]

Geez Rugby League can be a cruel game, Wales were a lot better than PNG, yet if you look at the scorelines between Wales v Aus and PNG v Aus, the differential is equal. Clearly the wet conditions at Parramatta last year worked in the Kumuls favour.

One thing worth noting, is England in 2011, is a stronger than England in 2009, and definitely a lot stronger than England 2010. So the fact Wales 'kept up' with the big 3 despite arguably the weakest of the three improving significantly, shows these second tier nations aren't dropping off the pace.

It would have been nice if France could have had a go against NZ and Australia again this year. This year is the first time I can recall the French naming a full 17 of full-time professional players (against England in Avignon), surely that's a sign of improvement?

 

[adamkungl]

Catalans will continue to improve, the local comp will keep getting better, and France will take a big scalp within 5 years...hopefully Wales and PNG keep up.

 

[PaddyBoy]

Wish the RLIF (or a similar body) actually had more power than the clubs. Like with FIFA (despite their corruption) they can say "These are international dates, if the national team want players and their doctors clear them, then cry me a river".

Origin breaks would be good, and you wouldn't have to worry about not having much footy on if you had them + Under 19s, NZ (South vs North, maybe three way with PNG?). Some NSW Residents vs Queensland Residents games. Wouldn't be as good, but Origin would bolster ratings.

 

[newman]

As it stands currently the format of 3 permanent nations and a fourth spot up for grabs is probably the best scenario. Whilst i am nott opposed to a permanent 4th nation, no one has been dominant enough to deserve that YET. France despite being fully professional didn't even qualify for this years tournament! I just think the fourth nation set up needs a bit of work and I think that the rotation of southern hemi/northern hemi is a bit flawed. They've really got to squeeze as much juice out of this lemon as they can because in reality the 4 nations is the best vehicle to grow the intl game.

For mine the biggest problem is that the way it stands no team gets a crack two years running. Wales, for all their good work, miss out next year due to the cycle and then there is a world cup so their next chance is 2014. A long way off and with their best player just retiring it seems unlikely they will qualify again. So they will drop down the rankings and any ground made will be lost. If they had a crack at qualifying next year, and they make it, who knows how good it will be for their game AND as a flow on how much it will drag the other nations on their level up?

Now, if it is unfair to give France a permanent 4th spot, what's the point of qualifying for the southern hemisphere when PNG are so far ahead of the other southern hemi nations? Tonga and Samoa aren't even playing, Fiji just proved they are well behind and the cooks are well down the ladder. It's a bit farcical that they get an almost guaranteed spot while France and wales sit the year out when they are arguably better teams. My solution? Play a qualification tournament with the top 4 teams behind aus eng nz and the winner of that gets in. That way, you have the most "deserving" team in the 4N but there is a healthy, solid competiton between these 2nd tier nations that only serves to increase their quality. As it would be based on rankings it gives the lower tier nations like Ireland, Italy, Samoa etc a real shot to improve if they play well.



Conversely (and more radically) you could expand