The Game Future NRL Stadiums part II

[Iamback]

Anywhere that has that crowd will struggle for getting in and out really

 

[The Great Dane]

so what 10k seats for the W league games, Vikings Rugby

who else would play there?

Basically any smaller team that could use a smaller venue. There've been plenty of teams planned for Canberra that didn't get off the ground because such a venue didn't exist as well.

They've even been talking about trying to get the Brumbies to play at least some games at Viking park. It'd be cheaper and a better fit for most of their games at this point.

 

[The Great Dane]

Canberra and the Fed govt showing the rest of the country and the world it is not a real city or community, just a government camp out.

Fed's are just playing politics, and spending any more money in Canberra than they have too is a vote loser for them, meanwhile the ACT's hands are largely tied by the circumstances.

If you want to be angry at anybody then be angry at your average Australian voter, whom, out of abject ignorance, will vote against any proposal that benefits Canberra 'because that's where all the rich politicians live'.

 

[Perth Red]

Anywhere that has that crowd will struggle for getting in and out really

Not at all if it is well positioned and has train lines at the door. No problems getting in and out of Optus stadium from pretty much anywhere in perth even with 60k people there as they actually put it in the right place and built the necessary transport infrastructure to move large volumes of people efficiently.

 

[Perth Red]

Fed's are just playing politics, and spending any more money in Canberra than they have too is a vote loser for them, meanwhile the ACT's hands are largely tied by the circumstances.

If you want to be angry at anybody then be angry at your average Australian voter, whom, out of abject ignorance, will vote against any proposal that benefits Canberra 'because that's where all the rich politicians live'.

I doubt many voters nationally care one way or the other if Canberra gets a new stadium, and certainly not enough for it to be a deciding factor.

 

[The Great Dane]

Imagine if something as good as that in the picture with roof were ever to be built in Canberra. It would become a must every year to go to every time they played Parra. Would be an awesome venue and if at Civic location.

It'd be a disaster because that proposal is only for a 20k stadium and convention centre, and that's way too small for the city's needs. There's also debate whether the plans would fit even at that size. You'd probably either have to reduce the size of the stadium or have the dinkiest convention centre in the country, either way it's no good.

When the government first started promising a stadium in Civic 20 years ago it would have been the perfect spot, but in the meantime they've allowed developers to build over every inch of free space in the city to the point that a stadium in the right orientation simply won't fit unless they knockdown buildings (never going to happen), or they get permission to build into Commonwealth Park (highly unlikely).

That's the major problem with Civic, there simply isn't any space for major stadium anymore, and as such we need to move on from there to another more realistic option before that option gets built out as well.

 

[The Great Dane]

I doubt many voters nationally care one way or the other if Canberra gets a new stadium, and certainly not enough for it to be a deciding factor.

You'd be completely wrong.

Public service funding, investment into infrastructure in/around the capital, programs to invest in political and cultural infrastructure in Canberra, etc, have all been shown to have an outsized impact on swing voters in this country.

If you pay close attention you can hear the rhetoric as well, seriously go listen to any Liberal or Nationals convention for example and you'll hear at least one polly ranting about money wasted on the public service in Canberra.

 

[T-Boon]

On top of a major rectangular stadium the city desperately needs a new or upgraded arena, major oval, boutique rectangular stadium, ice rink, more basketball courts, more netball courts, investment into motorsport infrastructure, upgrades to the theatre, and much more.
A street circuit around parliament hiyas would be good

 

[T-Boon]

…

 

[TheRam]

It'd be a disaster because that proposal is only for a 20k stadium and convention centre, and that's way too small for the city's needs. There's also debate whether the plans would fit even at that size. You'd probably either have to reduce the size of the stadium or have the dinkiest convention centre in the country, either way it's no good.

When the government first started promising a stadium in Civic 20 years ago it would have been the perfect spot, but in the meantime they've allowed developers to build over every inch of free space in the city to the point that a stadium in the right orientation simply won't fit unless they knockdown buildings (never going to happen), or they get permission to build into Commonwealth Park (highly unlikely).

That's the major problem with Civic, there simply isn't any space for major stadium anymore, and as such we need to move on from there to another more realistic option before that option gets built out as well.

Sure in a perfect world it would be nice to have a 30K stadiums in Civic, But the site is to perfect and important to just abandon it and move somewhere else less publicly friendly. If that picture is of a 20K stadium, I'm sure with a little tweaking(maybe go up and making the seating steeper, therefore allowing for more seating) we could squeeze in an extra 5K making it a 25K stadium or there abouts.

Yeah it would still be on the smaller side for a one city team, but with all due respect, it is Canberra not the bleeding Broncos that we are talking about here and so I doubt that they will be having to many occasions where they will be needing much more to be honest.

Besides it is a much more desirable thing to have a scarcity of tickets then thousands of empty seats everywhere. Making Raiders tickets special and valuable not something that everyone takes for granted and can just simply rock up last minute on game day as is the psyche of most fans of RL at the moment. Tickets to the NRL should be seen as a grand and converted, like in the US with the NBA or NFL. At the moment there isn't much prestige associated with having tickets to any NRL game. I think Parra has created two such games this season, but there wouldn't be to many others is there?

Anyway over time if the Raiders should ever actually out grow a Civic stadium, then sure find a suitable site that can accommodate 35K-40K and build it then. But in the mean time grow the brand and game by playing in a boutique smaller roofed stadium that is in the best possible location that will attract the most local and interstate fans possible. I doubt that they will be regularly turning fans away any time soon. Currently the Raiders can only dream that they had that problem.

P.S. Do you mean that the Civic site is meant to accommodate both a stadium and a convention centre on the same site? If so, then maybe they should just build a stadium there if that means that they could then build a larger one and put the convention centre somewhere else.

 

[baselinepanther]

Sure in a perfect world it would be nice to have a 30K stadiums in Civic, But the site is to perfect and important to just abandon it and move somewhere else less publicly friendly. If that picture is of a 20K stadium, I'm sure with a little tweaking(maybe go up and making the seating steeper, therefore allowing for more seating) we could squeeze in an extra 5K making it a 25K stadium or there abouts.

Yeah it would still be on the smaller side for a one city team, but with all due respect, it is Canberra not the bleeding Broncos that we are talking about here and so I doubt that they will be having to many occasions where they will be needing much more to be honest.

Besides it is a much more desirable thing to have a scarcity of tickets then thousands of empty seats everywhere. Making Raiders tickets special and valuable not something that everyone takes for granted and can just simply rock up last minute on game day as is the psyche of most fans of RL at the moment. Tickets to the NRL should be seen as a grand and converted, like in the US with the NBA or NFL. At the moment there isn't much prestige associated with having tickets to any NRL game. I think Parra has created two such games this season, but there wouldn't be to many others is there?

Anyway over time if the Raiders should ever actually out grow a Civic stadium, then sure find a suitable site that can accommodate 35K-40K and build it then. But in the mean time grow the brand and game by playing in a boutique smaller roofed stadium that is in the best possible location that will attract the most local and interstate fans possible. I doubt that they will be regularly turning fans away any time soon. Currently the Raiders can only dream that they had that problem.

P.S. Do you mean that the Civic site is meant to accommodate both a stadium and a convention centre on the same site? If so, then maybe they should just build a stadium there if that means that they could then build a larger one and put the convention centre somewhere else.

We need to be hosting prelim finals , we won't with a 20K capacity stadium.
We haven't drawn a crowd of under 20K to a final since 2003 I think as well with all of them pretty much selling out.
We need that wriggle room of a stadium that has 25K permanent seats & capacity for another 5K for those bigger events similar to the venue in Dunedin.

I still think this can happen in civic with the east bound lanes of parksway being built over , maybe it will need to sit over constitution ave too , but it could be done.

 

[baselinepanther]

the only way it will happen id if a Federal Labor Govt builds it. The Territory Govt can't because its committed its resources to a tree hugging whale humping green agenda & this moronic light rail

Katy Gallagher needs to get in Albo's ear should enough Australians be sick enough of that smug prick sco mo & vote him out.
can easily be justified as federal infrastructure projects etc

 

[The Great Dane]

We need to be hosting prelim finals , we won't with a 20K capacity stadium.
We haven't drawn a crowd of under 20K to a final since 2003 I think as well with all of them pretty much selling out.
We need that wriggle room of a stadium that has 25K permanent seats & capacity for another 5K for those bigger events similar to the venue in Dunedin.

I still think this can happen in civic with the east bound lanes of parksway being built over , maybe it will need to sit over constitution ave too , but it could be done.
View attachment 59195

You don't understand.

The planners are only just squeezing in 20k in the right orientation after Parkes way has been realigned and all the necessary infrastructure is in place. In other words they've already squeezed in all the seats they can, there is no more room for any more seats, and definitely not room for 5k more which is still too small anyway (you really want 30k if Canberra is going to attract many events that will be the difference between it being viable and a white elephant).

The only way you could fit a stadium big enough is if you build over Constitution avenue and knock down the convention centre, which is never going to happen, or get permission to build into commonwealth park, which is outside the ACT government's control and it's highly unlikely that the feds would agree to give enough room.

Building over that part of commonwealth park would mean relocating Floriade and other events as well, which would mean shit fight as well.

 

[TheRam]

We need to be hosting prelim finals , we won't with a 20K capacity stadium.
We haven't drawn a crowd of under 20K to a final since 2003 I think as well with all of them pretty much selling out.
We need that wriggle room of a stadium that has 25K permanent seats & capacity for another 5K for those bigger events similar to the venue in Dunedin.

I still think this can happen in civic with the east bound lanes of parksway being built over , maybe it will need to sit over constitution ave too , but it could be done.
View attachment 59195

Sorry mate, but like I said before in a perfect world, sure 30K-35K would be ideal, but location, location, location.

So with that in mind, I would rather see a stadium that is slightly smaller then ideal and have it running at capacity for most games if it means we have it built right in the epicentre of the city. It would make it the most convenient RL stadium in NSW if not the country and if it has that design and roof and with the intimate viewing experience a stadium of that size provides, it would make it a massive and irresistible attraction on every level for most sporting fans.

In regards to it not being large enough for finals matches, sure I get it, it would probably mean around 5K fans could/would miss out, but lets be realistic here for a second. How many home finals games would the Raiders play in a decade of finals campaigns? How many have they had in the last 10 years? On average I would hazard a guess and say 3 or 4 at best? In my opinion hardly a reason to lose such an advantageous site for the 3 or 4 games a decade that we might lockout a few thousand fans. The week in week out games should be accommodated first and are way more important then the occasional finals lockout game.

Build the atmosphere and brand first before we start to panic about the crowd limitations of the stadium at finals time. Like I said, lockouts are a good problem not a bad one.

 

[The Great Dane]

Sure in a perfect world it would be nice to have a 30K stadiums in Civic, But the site is to perfect and important to just abandon it and move somewhere else less publicly friendly. If that picture is of a 20K stadium, I'm sure with a little tweaking(maybe go up and making the seating steeper, therefore allowing for more seating) we could squeeze in an extra 5K making it a 25K stadium or there abouts.

Yeah it would still be on the smaller side for a one city team, but with all due respect, it is Canberra not the bleeding Broncos that we are talking about here and so I doubt that they will be having to many occasions where they will be needing much more to be honest.

Besides it is a much more desirable thing to have a scarcity of tickets then thousands of empty seats everywhere. Making Raiders tickets special and valuable not something that everyone takes for granted and can just simply rock up last minute on game day as is the psyche of most fans of RL at the moment. Tickets to the NRL should be seen as a grand and converted, like in the US with the NBA or NFL. At the moment there isn't much prestige associated with having tickets to any NRL game. I think Parra has created two such games this season, but there wouldn't be to many others is there?

Anyway over time if the Raiders should ever actually out grow a Civic stadium, then sure find a suitable site that can accommodate 35K-40K and build it then. But in the mean time grow the brand and game by playing in a boutique smaller roofed stadium that is in the best possible location that will attract the most local and interstate fans possible. I doubt that they will be regularly turning fans away any time soon. Currently the Raiders can only dream that they had that problem.

Your whole premise is f**ked because the new stadium can't be just for Raiders if it is going to be feasible, and the city outgrew it's current 25k seat stadium a decade ago.

It's the hight of insanity to suggest that the city build a white elephant that's 10k seats too small just because, when there're other options that would be able to accommodate all the City's needs without any of negatives that are still on the table if we allow them to be.

P.S. Do you mean that the Civic site is meant to accommodate both a stadium and a convention centre on the same site? If so, then maybe they should just build a stadium there if that means that they could then build a larger one and put the convention centre somewhere else.

The convention centre needs updating as well, and is across the road from the Civic Pool plot.

The plan that you got the render from included a new convention centre as part of the new stadium plans on the Civic pool plot, however it's not normally included in the stadium plans.

 

[baselinepanther]

Sorry mate, but like I said before in a perfect world, sure 30K-35K would be ideal, but location, location, location.

So with that in mind, I would rather see a stadium that is slightly smaller then ideal and have it running at capacity for most games if it means we have it built right in the epicentre of the city. It would make it the most convenient RL stadium in NSW if not the country and if it has that design and roof and with the intimate viewing experience a stadium of that size provides, it would make it a massive and irresistible attraction on every level for most sporting fans.

In regards to it not being large enough for finals matches, sure I get it, it would probably mean around 5K fans could/would miss out, but lets be realistic here for a second. How many home finals games would the Raiders play in a decade of finals campaigns? How many have they had in the last 10 years? On average I would hazard a guess and say 3 or 4 at best? In my opinion hardly a reason to lose such an advantageous site for the 3 or 4 games a decade that we might lockout a few thousand fans. The week in week out games should be accommodated first and are way more important then the occasional finals lockout game.

Build the atmosphere and brand first before we start to panic about the crowd limitations of the stadium at finals time. Like I said, lockouts are a good problem not a bad one.

well we will disagree then
20K is pointless anywhere in Canberra including civic

 

[The Great Dane]

Sorry mate, but like I said before in a perfect world, sure 30K-35K would be ideal, but location, location, location.

So with that in mind, I would rather see a stadium that is slightly smaller then ideal and have it running at capacity for most games if it means we have it built right in the epicentre of the city. It would make it the most convenient RL stadium in NSW if not the country and if it has that design and roof and with the intimate viewing experience a stadium of that size provides, it would make it a massive and irresistible attraction on every level for most sporting fans.

In regards to it not being large enough for finals matches, sure I get it, it would probably mean around 5K fans could/would miss out, but lets be realistic here for a second. How many home finals games would the Raiders play in a decade of finals campaigns? How many have they had in the last 10 years? On average I would hazard a guess and say 3 or 4 at best? In my opinion hardly a reason to lose such an advantageous site for the 3 or 4 games a decade that we might lockout a few thousand fans. The week in week out games should be accommodated first and are way more important then the occasional finals lockout game.

Build the atmosphere and brand first before we start to panic about the crowd limitations of the stadium at finals time. Like I said, lockouts are a good problem not a bad one.

No, all of them miss out because a 20k stadium isn't big enough to host finals in either the NRL or Super Rugby, and as such all their finals games would be played in Sydney.

With all due respect; the fact that you keep suggesting that the stadium is only to accommodate the Raiders shows you know nothing about Canberra, it's geography, or the stakeholders it's trying to juggle in building a new stadium.

In other words you've got no idea what you are talking about, and if we took your advice we'd be in the position of spending hundreds of millions of dollars building on a new stadium only to have to do it all again less than a decade later, which would be the hight of stupidly bad management.

 

[baselinepanther]

You don't understand.

The planners are only just squeezing in 20k in the right orientation after Parkes way has been realigned and all the necessary infrastructure is in place. In other words they've already squeezed in all the seats they can, there is no more room for any more seats, and definitely not room for 5k more which is still too small anyway (you really want 30k if Canberra is going to attract many events that will be the difference between it being viable and a white elephant).

The only way you could fit a stadium big enough is if you build over Constitution avenue and knock down the convention centre, which is never going to happen, or get permission to build into commonwealth park, which is outside the ACT government's control and it's highly unlikely that the feds would agree to give enough room.

Building over that part of commonwealth park would mean relocating Floriade and other events as well, which would mean shit fight as well.

It'd be tight , but it could be done
put that 150m of parksway east & west under the stadium then ( a tunnel ) , & it would be on the civic pool site , over parksway & butt up against commonwealth park.

It could be done ...

enough of your " you don't understand "
I simply don't agree with you , that doesn't mean it can't be done ...

 

[The Great Dane]

well we will disagree then
20K is pointless anywhere in Canberra including civic

And if we build a pointless 20k stadium the next 30k stadium that is built to make up the difference will almost certainly be an oval, which would be a disastrous outcome for rectangular sports locally.

 

[parrawentyfan]

I'm a bit confused about the Sharks stadium situation.

I've heared many times that the two years away from home was due to the construction impacts of the precinct, with no stadium improvements involved. Certainly the stadium hasn't been improved.

However the scaffolding on the far side is awfully close to the main stands. So what is that all about?

Are they actually doing stadium renovations to extend the big grandstand the length of the field? If so that is great.

Or are they building some other structure adjacent to the stadium? If this is the case, then that seems very short-sighted. They are giving themselves no room to grow. Are they planning on drawing tiny crowds forever?