The Game Future NRL Stadiums part II

[Perth Red]

Eleven, where did you get 10 from?

Depends on magic round draw.

 

[Russell Crowe's Band]

WTF you talkin about.....the money I'm talking about is the money from the government.

Not anywhere did I mention money from the development.

Ok so this govt money
i guess there will be an announcement eventually either way. we have 8 million secured already im guessing they are lobbying for more from the non spend of the ANZupgrade?

in the mean time, if people want to have a suss of potential upgrades to shark park on the hills, and the full development plan. they can suss these

DA210635 Original Architectural Plans - [A7641136].pdf (nsw.gov.au)

DA181448 Revised 8 Architectural Drawings 2019 07 17 - [A6255690].pdf (nsw.gov.au)

https://propertydevelopment.ssc.nsw.gov.au/PublicEPropertyPDF/DA161744 Original Architectural Plans - [A4125387].pdf

 

[yadamisha]

The main development version is pretty old but it will give those ignorant of what is happening some idea of the scale, be it these are before the improved final versions. The one for the work for behind the ET stand was already completed prior to the move to Kogarah so the TV trucks had somewhere to park when the Western side of the development was happening. There are now new ones covering all this area above which is the CoE that links the southern stand to ET and goes the length of the field, wrapping the existing stand. There are also modifications for the development on the east side facing the ground. The listed new one for the Hill and a new NE gate similar to the SE/SW gates will all definitely be done in the next off season, the club is paying for this.

 

[Perth Red]

Having stuffed up any opportunity for a decent stand on the East side it looks like they may do the same on the West if a large chunk of the land is going to be taken up with a CofE?

From what I can see the stadium itself has got a few hundred uncovered extra seats on the West side, some plans for terracing on the South Hill and thats about it? Am I missing where a decent main stand is going to be built on the only side it can now be built on to replace the ET stand that only covers a 1/3rd of the sideline?

 

[yadamisha]

Having stuffed up any opportunity for a decent stand on the East side it looks like they may do the same on the West if a large chunk of the land is going to be taken up with a CofE?

From what I can see the stadium itself has got a few hundred uncovered extra seats on the West side, some plans for terracing on the South Hill and thats about it? Am I missing where a decent main stand is going to be built on the only side it can now be built on to replace the ET stand that only covers a 1/3rd of the sideline?

The CofE (not shown in the links) is a grandstand with a lot of corporate space that will extend the ET stand to the full length of the field plus join the southern stand. Not sure on your maths in saying the current ET stand that goes from the 20m line to the other 20m line only covers a 1/3 of the sideline! Also the hill is the northern end of the ground!

 

[Perth Red]

Any pics of the cofe development, from what I saw previously it looked to be sitting behind and alongside the ET stand, not adding seats to it? Is that why theres been a delay as theyve looked for funding for new stand component?
ok 1/2 the sideline then, though it looks like the pitch might have been moved at some point as one end looks on the 20m and one around 25m mark? Geography was never a strong point lol.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

This is an artist's impression of the eastern grandstand. I don't sere any additional seating to what already exists.

According to AUStadiums, there's bugger all work being done to the stadium.

Sharks Stadium Redevelopment (PointsBet Stadium) | Austadiums

View information for the redevelopment of Sharks Stadium Redevelopment (PointsBet Stadium).

www.austadiums.com

 

[Bulldog2020]

Bad quality but an idea of what they want to do

 

[Perth Red]

Bad quality but an idea of what they want to doView attachment 59532

Yeh that’s the one I’ve seen but it looks all buildings, not stand.

 

[Perth Red]

This is an artist's impression of the eastern grandstand. I don't sere any additional seating to what already exists.

According to AUStadiums, there's bugger all work being done to the stadium.

Sharks Stadium Redevelopment (PointsBet Stadium) | Austadiums

View information for the redevelopment of Sharks Stadium Redevelopment (PointsBet Stadium).

www.austadiums.com

The white uncovered seats you can see up against the building is the only stadium development so far. Unfortunately having to sell the land to clear debt has meant they had to compromise ever having a decent 4 sided stadium.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

The white uncovered seats you can see up against the building is the only stadium development so far. Unfortunately having to sell the land to clear debt has meant they had to compromise ever having a decent 4 sided stadium.

Cronulla and St George will never be flush with money because they're competing for marketshare amongst 500k people in Southern Sydney. One team could make it work in an area of that size, but not two. It would be like putting a team in Logan and another in Ipswich.

 

[EuroNymous]

Cronulla and St George will never be flush with money because they're competing for marketshare amongst 500k people in Southern Sydney. One team could make it work in an area of that size, but not two. It would be like putting a team in Logan and another in Ipswich.

i remember there was some talk of building a stadium around loftus couple years ago when a league team bided to be Sutherland shire, Cronulla could had moved there as they were looking at 25/30k capacity

New stadium at Loftus in A-League plans

The proposed site for the stadium is land between Rawson Avenue and the railway line, which at present...

www.theleader.com.au

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

i remember there was some talk of building a stadium around loftus couple years ago when a league team bided to be Sutherland shire, Cronulla could had moved there as they were looking at 25/30k capacity

New stadium at Loftus in A-League plans

The proposed site for the stadium is land between Rawson Avenue and the railway line, which at present...

www.theleader.com.au

Sutherland would be the perfect location for a team that represents Southern Sydney and Wollongong.

 

[taipan]

Cronulla and St George will never be flush with money because they're competing for marketshare amongst 500k people in Southern Sydney. One team could make it work in an area of that size, but not two. It would be like putting a team in Logan and another in Ipswich.

Cronulla is out of debt with money in the bank, plus an additional asset providing income at Kareela.
The new leagues club currently under construction within the confines of the old club will also generate decent income, which was not the case prior ,in the dated club.In fact they are more financial than a few other Sydney clubs.
The club has in addition received Cof E grant .
The NRL has stated they do not want to water down or take away the tribal aspect of the game.Merging Dragons /Sharks would not work, as the "hate" is legendary.Similarly to Manly and North Sydney, with the doomed Northern Eagles
The club has a full book of sponsors, bigger junior league than most other Sydney clubs and a growing population with higher density housing.To say they will be never flush with money, you can then use the same formula for other clubs.And the club will not have to rely on poker machines as their mainstay of income.Nor do they need private investment at present.
Jubilee Oval is in an area becoming a different demographic not into rugby league.Wollongong is growing rapidly with a league demographic.
The new C. of E will have additional sponsors boxes and amenities for directors plus additional seating.
The Sharks aren't moving anywhere else, V'landys and the NRL acknowledge the fact ,they know the tribalism between the Dragons and Sharks.The code has had flicking clubs, mergers, expansion, it's about time to expand from a consolidated base.
We can't fill the Storm stadium despite their continual high yearly rankings after 25 years and the junior base is I believe mainly ex Ntherners and Kiwis, nor the Titan's Cubs stadium both new all seaters ,so the notion that new clubs will pack them in ,ain't necessarily so.
Again there is no reason not to have eventually 20 teams by adding from Brisbane and Perth

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Cronulla is out of debt with money in the bank, plus an additional asset providing income at Kareela.
The new leagues club currently under construction within the confines of the old club will also generate decent income, which was not the case prior ,in the dated club.In fact they are more financial than a few other Sydney clubs.
The club has in addition received Cof E grant .
The NRL has stated they do not want to water down or take away the tribal aspect of the game.Merging Dragons /Sharks would not work, as the "hate" is legendary.Similarly to Manly and North Sydney, with the doomed Northern Eagles
The club has a full book of sponsors, bigger junior league than most other Sydney clubs and a growing population with higher density housing.To say they will be never flush with money, you can then use the same formula for other clubs.And the club will not have to rely on poker machines as their mainstay of income.Nor do they need private investment at present.
Jubilee Oval is in an area becoming a different demographic not into rugby league.Wollongong is growing rapidly with a league demographic.
The new C. of E will have additional sponsors boxes and amenities for directors plus additional seating.
The Sharks aren't moving anywhere else, V'landys and the NRL acknowledge the fact ,they know the tribalism between the Dragons and Sharks.The code has had flicking clubs, mergers, expansion, it's about time to expand from a consolidated base.
We can't fill the Storm stadium despite their continual high yearly rankings after 25 years and the junior base is I believe mainly ex Ntherners and Kiwis, nor the Titan's Cubs stadium both new all seaters ,so the notion that new clubs will pack them in ,ain't necessarily so.
Again there is no reason not to have eventually 20 teams by adding from Brisbane and Perth

Sharks would have a larger fanbase and appeal to more people if they represented Sutherland and Illawarra. It's stupid having the Dragons represent the northern part of Southern Sydney and Illawarra while Sharks sit right in the middle. All it does is prevent both clubs from growing. There's only about 500k people in Southern Sydney, so it's not like they have a huge pool of potential supporters. Sutherland has about 220k and the Sharks are lucky to get 12k to a game. That's a little over 5% of Sutherland's population actively supporting the Sharks.

The hatred between Dragons and Sharks is good for the annual clash between the two clubs, but it doesn't attract fans to Endeavour to watch the 11 other home games that aren't played against St George. Merging the clubs isn't an option, but leaving them as they currently stand will lead to both clubs having limited appeal. Doing the same thing year in year out will produce the same outcome.

Melbourne draw better crowds than most Sydney NRL clubs, despite being in a rusted on fumbleball city.

If we're going by juniors, then Logan has produced a long list of State of Origin and Kangaroos representatives over the last 40 years and is larger than Sutherland. Former referee David Manson put together a list of players from Logan who've represented Queensland, Australia and even England. Logan has about 330k people.

Do we put a team in Logan since it is bigger than Sutherland, has a larger junior base and a history of producing better players?

If not then why have one in Sutherland?

Gold Coast draw better crowds than a few Sydney teams, despite being a basketcase for most of their existence.

With all that said, I think Cronulla are in a stronger position than St George and look more likely to survive in the long term. If Cronulla becomes the sole team in Southern Sydney and promote themselves as a team for everyone from Southern Sydney to Wollongong then they could become one of the largest clubs in Australian sport.

 

[Russell Crowe's Band]

Having stuffed up any opportunity for a decent stand on the East side it looks like they may do the same on the West if a large chunk of the land is going to be taken up with a CofE?

From what I can see the stadium itself has got a few hundred uncovered extra seats on the West side, some plans for terracing on the South Hill and thats about it? Am I missing where a decent main stand is going to be built on the only side it can now be built on to replace the ET stand that only covers a 1/3rd of the sideline?

I think there is actually enough room within the stadium to build something pretty decent if there was money and they were smart.
i don't believe just adding more without changing what exists is the way tho.

they have a few constraints (not just budget). where the southern stand is, the overhead wires etc

if you had the money.....
You would knock down all the concourse, and the PB seats, and the Lower ET stand Seats. essentially starting again bar the Porter and the upper ET.

Then you could basically build a horse shoe shaped bowl around 3/4 of the stadium (imagine cbus etc) at ta greater steepness and and have all your walkways and amenities built in behind it.

This would in my view pretty much double the current seated seat capacity within the available area.

The upper ET would remain as it is but the new buildings for corporate and coe would be behind the new bowl on each side.
that would also mean that the ET side and the southern stand had good amounts of cover.

the family hill would then be behind the new northern bowl area. there would be less space on it but it would still exist.

The PB side, youve got a bowl all the way around to a certain level (essentially double and a bit what you have now) but where the old stand seats were, the seats would just keep going further back.
sure. you are out in the elements, but he sight lines and seating and amenities are all improved 4000%

so youd have half the ground with roofing, half without. but that without is now way improved.

again. all if you had access to enough money.

I believe that the club was of the view that given the information they had been provided from the league, that they didn;t have to do all that much moving forward to the venue, and that the cost benefit and return on investment wasn't there at this stage.

 

[Jamberoo]

Cronulla and St George will never be flush with money because they're competing for marketshare amongst 500k people in Southern Sydney. One team could make it work in an area of that size, but not two. It would be like putting a team in Logan and another in Ipswich.

Why do all Dragons supporters have to come from southern Sydney? St George have been around for over 100 years, with plenty of success. They have played home games at Homebush and SFS. They are one of the great clubs of RL. Surely they have fans all over the city as well as the 'Gong!
Where do South's fans come from? Don't tell me they are all from the inner south? Souths are the only club to really spread their wings and play across town. Guess what - they have the largest membership and fans all across Sydney! NRL clubs don't need new stadiums, they just need to use their brains and play at the ones that exist. If Dragons dump old Kogarah and play at least half their games at SFS from 2023, they will soon return to being one of the giants of Rugby League.
Tribal is OK if you have given up on mass support, but the clubs they swallow their pride and play at the bigger, newer venues will reap the rewards long term. They don't have to move every games, but the clubs that are able to create some blackbuster matches at SFS will see a resulting bump in membership and corporate support.
Dragons, Souths, Roosters, Manly & Sharks need to get together and agree that all home games between each other will be played at SFS - in the best time slots to create some hype. It would be about 3/4 each, so the smaller 8 or so games would still be at their old grounds, meaning 18K - 20K is fine for when they tart up the suburban stadiums.
So, SFS - Roosters 12, Souths 6/7, Dragons 6/7, Sharks & Manly 3 = 30 - 32 games. It needs to happen from Round 1 next year, before it becomes simply the Roosters home ground.

 

[Colk]

This times a thousand. Sydney teams should be playing their games against each other at the bigger venues (SFS when it is complete and BankWest). They can play at their traditional smaller venues when they play the outer Sydney teams.

 

[Perth Red]

Why do all Dragons supporters have to come from southern Sydney? St George have been around for over 100 years, with plenty of success. They have played home games at Homebush and SFS. They are one of the great clubs of RL. Surely they have fans all over the city as well as the 'Gong!
Where do South's fans come from? Don't tell me they are all from the inner south? Souths are the only club to really spread their wings and play across town. Guess what - they have the largest membership and fans all across Sydney! NRL clubs don't need new stadiums, they just need to use their brains and play at the ones that exist. If Dragons dump old Kogarah and play at least half their games at SFS from 2023, they will soon return to being one of the giants of Rugby League.
Tribal is OK if you have given up on mass support, but the clubs they swallow their pride and play at the bigger, newer venues will reap the rewards long term. They don't have to move every games, but the clubs that are able to create some blackbuster matches at SFS will see a resulting bump in membership and corporate support.
Dragons, Souths, Roosters, Manly & Sharks need to get together and agree that all home games between each other will be played at SFS - in the best time slots to create some hype. It would be about 3/4 each, so the smaller 8 or so games would still be at their old grounds, meaning 18K - 20K is fine for when they tart up the suburban stadiums.
So, SFS - Roosters 12, Souths 6/7, Dragons 6/7, Sharks & Manly 3 = 30 - 32 games. It needs to happen from Round 1 next year, before it becomes simply the Roosters home ground.

That was Dave Smiths strategy, right game at right venue. The Sydney clubs spat the dummy, rather have 13k at their suburban grounds, along comes the next administration and tells NSW govt to abandon the big stadium strategy and invest in smaller stadiums and doing up shtholes. NRL used to have a strategic goal of getting to an avg of 20k. Latest strat plan doesn't even mention crowds lol.

 

[Iamback]

Gotta love people from other states telling us what Sydney fans should do