The Game Future NRL Stadiums part II

[Perth Red]

Gotta love people from other states telling us what Sydney fans should do

Sometimes you cant see the nose on the end of your face. If Sydney was filling stadiums there wouldn't be this conversation. Either NRL really isnt that big in Sydney or the current strategy that has been around for decades and is going nowhere isnt working. Why it takes people from other states to point this is an interesting question lol. Maybe because in our states we fill our stadiums so kind of have experience in what works?

 

[Colk]

Gotta love people from other states telling us what Sydney fans should do

I am from Newcastle so last time I checked that was in NSW. Your club is the outlier in that your club’s support is more and more coming from the Blue Mountains and Western NSW and you are so far from the CBD (presuming you are a Penrith fan)

There is no reason that the Sharks, Manly, Tigers or Dragons should be playing against fellow Sydney teams in their small suburban venues.

 

[Iamback]

I am from Newcastle so last time I checked that was in NSW. Your club is the outlier in that your club’s support is more and more coming from the Blue Mountains and Western NSW and you are so far from the CBD (presuming you are a Penrith fan)

There is no reason that the Sharks, Manly, Tigers or Dragons should be playing against fellow Sydney teams in their small suburban venues.

Tigers would have fans from Campbelltown which puts them in the same boat as us.
45 mins-60 mins extra each way for those fans.
There is a reason so few go to away games. Certainly not on week nights

 

[Iamback]

Sometimes you cant see the nose on the end of your face. If Sydney was filling stadiums there wouldn't be this conversation. Either NRL really isnt that big in Sydney or the current strategy that has been around for decades and is going nowhere isnt working. Why it takes people from other states to point this is an interesting question lol. Maybe because in our states we fill our stadiums so kind of have experience in what works?

so the city set up is the same in Perth as it is here?

Manly for example has no train line and 2 roads in and out. It is a horrible place to get to

 

[Jamberoo]

so the city set up is the same in Perth as it is here?

Manly for example has no train line and 2 roads in and out. It is a horrible place to get to

The exact reason Manly should play their big games somewhere else

 

[Iamback]

The exact reason Manly should play their big games somewhere else

You need to play the games where the crowds are though. Especially on Thurs night games

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Why do all Dragons supporters have to come from southern Sydney? St George have been around for over 100 years, with plenty of success. They have played home games at Homebush and SFS. They are one of the great clubs of RL. Surely they have fans all over the city as well as the 'Gong!
Where do South's fans come from? Don't tell me they are all from the inner south? Souths are the only club to really spread their wings and play across town. Guess what - they have the largest membership and fans all across Sydney! NRL clubs don't need new stadiums, they just need to use their brains and play at the ones that exist. If Dragons dump old Kogarah and play at least half their games at SFS from 2023, they will soon return to being one of the giants of Rugby League.
Tribal is OK if you have given up on mass support, but the clubs they swallow their pride and play at the bigger, newer venues will reap the rewards long term. They don't have to move every games, but the clubs that are able to create some blackbuster matches at SFS will see a resulting bump in membership and corporate support.
Dragons, Souths, Roosters, Manly & Sharks need to get together and agree that all home games between each other will be played at SFS - in the best time slots to create some hype. It would be about 3/4 each, so the smaller 8 or so games would still be at their old grounds, meaning 18K - 20K is fine for when they tart up the suburban stadiums.
So, SFS - Roosters 12, Souths 6/7, Dragons 6/7, Sharks & Manly 3 = 30 - 32 games. It needs to happen from Round 1 next year, before it becomes simply the Roosters home ground.

One argument thrown out by Sydney RL fans is they won't travel to watch their teams play.

Tigers took a game to Parramatta Stadium this year and drew a terrible crowd.

Why waste money on smaller suburban venues if they're not getting 12 games a year?

 

[Jamberoo]

Tigers would have fans from Campbelltown which puts them in the same boat as us.
45 mins-60 mins extra each way for those fans.
There is a reason so few go to away games. Certainly not on week nights

Just like Fremantle in Perth. Miles from the CBD. They could play at Fremantle Oval and draw 15k. That would be more convenient for the 15k fans who live near Freo. Or, because they aspire to be a big club and compete with West Coast, Adelaide and Collingwood, they play in the middle of town to crowds of 40k. It took a while but now their fans come from all parts of Perth.

Does any Sydney NRL club (besides Parra, Souths & Roosters) have any realistic chance to ever compete with Brisbane? Or the Swans? Do they even aspire to? Is the NRL happy that the biggest club in the world’s epicentre of RL is an Aussie Rules club? The one thing that the AFL has over the NRL is aspiration, ambition and foresight. The AFL thinks that The Giants will eventually be the second biggest sporting team in town. Most would agree that they are delusional, but at least they are having a crack and giving themselves every chance. They actually have a plan.
It is not just the NRL that lack ambition, it is the clubs themselves. It is a bizarre situation. Who is running these places?

 

[Perth Red]

so the city set up is the same in Perth as it is here?

Manly for example has no train line and 2 roads in and out. It is a horrible place to get to

Perth runs from Yanchep to Mandurah a total distance of around 125kms. That's the catchment for our centralised sports clubs. Takes me about 45mins to get to Optus or HBF and its no hardship to do a dozen times a year. Not like Sydney is some unique city.

No they are not the same geographically but what can be learnt is that playing the big games on the right day at the right time in the right stadium that is set up with excellent public transport options gets people to fill stadiums. And sharing new stadiums when feasible makes sense.

The outlier clubs like Penrith and Dragons in Gong of course need their own stadiums, the rest need to get over the sharing issue and play in new 25-30k stadiums with big games at the central large venues. Or as I said you stick to what the game in Sydney has been doing for decades and stop worrying about getting more than 13k to most games.

At the moment there's not pressure as the non Sydney clubs are equally not doing a great job at filling stadiums (Newcastle aside), which makes you wonder if it is just that the NRL isnt as popular as we'd like to believe? Sydney should be our strength with two sets of fans and local rivalries driving interest, but it isnt and is in fact a lower avg attendance than non sydney overall.

2019
Non Sydney avg 20,508
Sydney club avg 14,554

 

[Perth Red]

You need to play the games where the crowds are though. Especially on Thurs night games

No one is suggesting a Thursday night game against an out of sydney team would be a good idea to move.

 

[TheEroticGamer]

Well since we’re getting a new 25-30k stadium in three years I’d like to think we’re at least aspiring to compete with Swans and Brisbane. No reason not to.

 

[Iamback]

No one is suggesting a Thursday night game against an out of sydney team would be a good idea to move.

I don't know every clubs finances but it costs Panthers $550k a year to play out of Penrith. They get paid $300k to play at Bathurst. I am sure CommBank would pay to.
If it was viable teams would do it. They are certainly better off but it doesn't suit the clubs for many reasons

 

[Iamback]

Just like Fremantle in Perth. Miles from the CBD. They could play at Fremantle Oval and draw 15k. That would be more convenient for the 15k fans who live near Freo. Or, because they aspire to be a big club and compete with West Coast, Adelaide and Collingwood, they play in the middle of town to crowds of 40k. It took a while but now their fans come from all parts of Perth.

Does any Sydney NRL club (besides Parra, Souths & Roosters) have any realistic chance to ever compete with Brisbane? Or the Swans? Do they even aspire to? Is the NRL happy that the biggest club in the world’s epicentre of RL is an Aussie Rules club? The one thing that the AFL has over the NRL is aspiration, ambition and foresight. The AFL thinks that The Giants will eventually be the second biggest sporting team in town. Most would agree that they are delusional, but at least they are having a crack and giving themselves every chance. They actually have a plan.
It is not just the NRL that lack ambition, it is the clubs themselves. It is a bizarre situation. Who is running these places?

Again not an apples v oranges comparison

Broncos and Swans have much larger fan bases do one town teams. Or were for many years

 

[mongoose]

Just like Fremantle in Perth. Miles from the CBD. They could play at Fremantle Oval and draw 15k. That would be more convenient for the 15k fans who live near Freo. Or, because they aspire to be a big club and compete with West Coast, Adelaide and Collingwood, they play in the middle of town to crowds of 40k. It took a while but now their fans come from all parts of Perth.

Does any Sydney NRL club (besides Parra, Souths & Roosters) have any realistic chance to ever compete with Brisbane? Or the Swans? Do they even aspire to? Is the NRL happy that the biggest club in the world’s epicentre of RL is an Aussie Rules club? The one thing that the AFL has over the NRL is aspiration, ambition and foresight. The AFL thinks that The Giants will eventually be the second biggest sporting team in town. Most would agree that they are delusional, but at least they are having a crack and giving themselves every chance. They actually have a plan.
It is not just the NRL that lack ambition, it is the clubs themselves. It is a bizarre situation. Who is running these places?

To be fair, Sydney is a bit harder to traverse than Perth. Perth is a planned city with very low density. Sydney isn't planned and is significantly more dense than Perth.

 

[Iamback]

To be fair, Sydney is a bit harder to traverse than Perth. Perth is a planned city with very low density. Sydney isn't planned and is significantly more dense than Perth.

That sums it up there.

 

[Perth Red]

To be fair, Sydney is a bit harder to traverse than Perth. Perth is a planned city with very low density. Sydney isn't planned and is significantly more dense than Perth.

Travel time is travel time. Like I said its 45mins to the stadiums for me, and I dont live way out of the city. As it would be for most of Perths population. density should help in that regards as you would have a lot more people in a 45min travel radius of the stadiums with higher density living.

Building good public transport options of course makes the biggest difference. There is zero parking at Optus so everyone gets the train and no problem getting 60k in and out efficiently. Its called good planning and design and building stadiums in places that make sense!

Being central means the radius is much bigger to catch from 360 degrees as opposed to be a suburban ground like Shark Park or Campbelltown where away fans are unlikely to travel to in any great numbers. AFL figured that out in Melbourne, Perth and Adelaide decades ago.

Distances
Canterbury to Moore Park 11km
Balmain to Moore Park 10km
Kogorah to Moore Park 15km
Cronulla to Moore Park 26km

Fremantle to Optus Stadium 21km.

Its much more mindset than it is distance.

 

[Iamback]

Travel time is travel time. Like I said its 45mins to the stadiums for me, and I dont live way out of the city. As it would be for most of Perths population. density should help in that regards as you would have a lot more people in a 45min travel radius of the stadiums with higher density living.

Building good public transport options of course makes the biggest difference. There is zero parking at Optus so everyone gets the train and no problem getting 60k in and out efficiently. Its called good planning and design and building stadiums in places that make sense!

Being central means the radius is much bigger to catch from 360 degrees as opposed to be a suburban ground like Shark Park or Campbelltown where away fans are unlikely to travel to in any great numbers. AFL figured that out in Melbourne, Perth and Adelaide decades ago.

Distances
Canterbury to Moore Park 11km
Balmain to Moore Park 10km
Kogorah to Moore Park 15km
Cronulla to Moore Park 26km

Fremantle to Optus Stadium 21km.

Its much more mindset than it is distance.

The travel times?

You are doing the Cronulla and Kogarah trips in 45 mins minimum.

Past the airport and Port area are shocking or you pay $20 for tolls

Again. People who know zero about Sydney has no place telling locals what we should do

 

[Perth Red]

The travel times?

You are doing the Cronulla and Kogarah trips in 45 mins minimum.

Past the airport and Port area are shocking or you pay $20 for tolls

Again. People who know zero about Sydney has no place telling locals what we should do

Sometimes people who keep failing need some outside help! 45mins isnt a hardship for a Sat or Sun game.
So whats your answer? Sydney crowd have been stagnant for 20 years, not every club is going to get a $300mill new stadium. So what do you suggest should happen?

Having state of the art new stadiums with one NRL club in them whilst other clubs are playing what could be big drawing games in dilapidated suburban grounds in front of 13k seems such a waste.

Smiths idea of hosting NRL 'events" at the new SFS regularly with blockbuster games and the NRL controlling the match day experience is the way to go to at least start to make Sydney NRL look like a top tier sport.

I'd have Friday night game at SFS marketing to the city after work crowd and young adult fans and a Sunday afternoon blockbuster at WSS marketed towards families. NRL gives the club $200k for losing the home game and controls ticket prices and game day experience, both sets of full members get into the game. Just try something different for a change!

 

[hrundi99]

Travel time is travel time. Like I said its 45mins to the stadiums for me, and I dont live way out of the city. As it would be for most of Perths population. density should help in that regards as you would have a lot more people in a 45min travel radius of the stadiums with higher density living.

Building good public transport options of course makes the biggest difference. There is zero parking at Optus so everyone gets the train and no problem getting 60k in and out efficiently. Its called good planning and design and building stadiums in places that make sense!

Being central means the radius is much bigger to catch from 360 degrees as opposed to be a suburban ground like Shark Park or Campbelltown where away fans are unlikely to travel to in any great numbers. AFL figured that out in Melbourne, Perth and Adelaide decades ago.

Distances
Canterbury to Moore Park 11km
Balmain to Moore Park 10km
Kogorah to Moore Park 15km
Cronulla to Moore Park 26km

Fremantle to Optus Stadium 21km.

Its much more mindset than it is distance.

Distance in Sydney is not the same as distance in Perth. If it was possible it would be good to compare the number of traffic lights in those distances (and the number of cars/buses/trucks on the road) to get a more accurate measure of what it takes.

The cities are completely different. Your ignorance is showing once again.

 

[hrundi99]

With Google Maps times:

Canterbury to Moore Park 11km (26 min (20.4 km) via M5 and M1) - where did you get 11km? as the crow flies?
Balmain to Moore Park 10km (21 min (8.9 km) via Cleveland St) - very few WT supporters actually live in Balmain
Kogarah to Moore Park 15km (20 min (15.4 km) via M1) - not all Dragons fans live in Kogarah; they have to drive to Kogarah, then Moore Park?
Cronulla to Moore Park 26km (46 min (25.5 km) via Princes Hwy/A36)

These are Tuesday night post peak hour optimistic estimates.

Fremantle to Optus Stadium 21km (32 min (19.2 km) via Canning Hwy/State Route 6)

Sydney is renowned as one of the most complex sports/entertainment cities in the world. You're oversimplifying the situation.