The Game Future NRL Stadiums part II

[AlwaysGreen]

At this point an enclosed stadium isn't worth the costs and sacrifices that would have to be made to make it happen, and allowing the perfect to be the enemy of the good has almost completely destroyed the rectangular sports chances of getting a good outcome out of the new stadium.

No one wants the perfect to be the enemy of the good or any other type of nonsense you're spouting. If you're going to reply to me just answer like a normal person.

 

[The Great Dane]

No one wants the perfect to be the enemy of the good or any other type of nonsense you're spouting. If you're going to reply to me just answer like a normal person.

Your proposition is the allowing the perfect being the enemy of the good at this point, and if you really don't know what a common saying like "don't let the perfect be the enemy of good" means then that's your problem.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Considering how often it’s relevant when discussing stadium proposals, it pays to know what “the perfect is the enemy of the good” means.

 

[AlwaysGreen]

I always thought it was baddies verses goodies.

 

[Captain Apollo]

Speaking of drips, the biggest whinger on this site calling people soft. It gets freezing in Canberra in the middle of winter and responsible adults rightly don't like taking their kids to sit in a freezing stadium.

PR obviously never saw this -


The Raiders sure haven't forgotten it -

Remembering the snow game!

The snow that hit Canberra this morning might be fleeting, but memories from the Raiders infamous snow game in 2000 will live on forever.

www.raiders.com.au

 

[Wb1234]

If you talk to people their main concerns about the current stadium are that there's nothing to do around Bruce, i.e. the location, and the lack of coverage from the elements in the stadium. You can build a stadium with reasonable coverage from the elements anywhere, but the location is what it is, and nothing you, I, or the government, do is going to suddenly turn Bruce into an bustling entertainment quarter with strong public transport links from all over the city.

Simply building an enclosed stadium at Bruce would draw a couple thousand more on average than you're getting now, but it's expensive, fails to address a bunch of the major issues with the current stadium, and creates a shit ton of other issues in the process. Sacrificing the enclosed stadium to build a decent modern stadium with good coverage over the stands in a better location would draw significantly more on average.

Honestly, effectively copying and pasting Parra or AAMI and dropping it into any one of the town centres would more than meet the city's needs.

There're locations other than Civic in the city that meet those criteria as well, so it's a false a dichotomy to suggest that it's choice between either Civic or Bruce.

Doing nothing or getting a brand new stadium at Bruce

people don’t need stuff around a stadium that’s bs

in the glory days the raiders and brumbies got 20k crowd averages there so the location can work fine

commbank allianz aren’t in ideal spots either but they work

this sounds like Canberra will get a new ground I think that’s awesome

 

[Wb1234]

At this point an enclosed stadium isn't worth the costs and sacrifices that would have to be made to make it happen, and allowing the perfect to be the enemy of the good has almost completely destroyed the rectangular sports chances of getting a good outcome out of the new stadium.

Dunedin did it for a reasonable cost

fumblers have their ground that opens and closes

 

[Heisenberg]

Te Kaha Stadium In Christchurch has to be the absolute minimum the ACT government should be aiming for.
Civic is obviously the best option, clearly it ain’t gonna happen for a bunch of reasons.
If they’re doing Bruce, do it properly. Build this in Bruce and tell me people won’t come.

 

[The Great Dane]

Doing nothing or getting a brand new stadium at Bruce

That's another false dichotomy.

people don’t need stuff around a stadium that’s bs

Speak for yourself.

The expressed preference of most people and the average attendance at centralised stadia compared to non-centralised stadia clearly shows otherwise.

in the glory days the raiders and brumbies got 20k crowd averages there so the location can work fine

Neither the Raiders nor Brumbies have ever averaged 20k.

The Raiders highest average attendance on record in 17k in 94, other than that their attendance fluctuates between roughly 12-15k during times when the team is going well, and seems to have largely plateaued. The Brumbies had similar numbers at their peak, but they've tanked over the last half decade.

commbank allianz aren’t in ideal spots either but they work

Both have good public transport links and are within short walking distance of pubs and restaurants.

Bruce is wedged between the AIS, a CIT campus, and a major highway, in the middle of suburbia with next to no PT links. The Belconnen town centre, the nearest area with good PT, hotels, restaurants and bars, something amounting to a nightlife, etc, is 4km away with no way to get there easily except to drive or walk.

So yeah, you're full of shit.

this sounds like Canberra will get a new ground I think that’s awesome

The City to the Lake plan was announced by Labour a decade ago, it included a stadium in Civic that was meant to be built by 2020. . . Almost nothing that was announced in City to the Lake ever came to fruition, and most of the land was sold off to developers (which is why we're in the predicament that we're in now). It's not the only example either, I'd be a very rich man if I had a dollar for every time an ACT government had announced plans to build new basketball courts or an ice rink.

I'll believe this new stadium when I'm sitting in it, which almost certainly won't happen within the next decade, and probably not the decade after that either unless the federal government steps in.

 

[Wb1234]

That's another false dichotomy.

Speak for yourself.

The expressed preference of most people and the average attendance at centralised stadia compared to non-centralised stadia clearly shows otherwise.

Neither the Raiders nor Brumbies have ever averaged 20k.

The Raiders highest average attendance on record in 17k in 94, other than that their attendance fluctuates between roughly 12-15k during times when the team is going well, and seems to have largely plateaued. The Brumbies had similar numbers at their peak, but they've tanked over the last half decade.

Both have good public transport links and are within short walking distance of pubs and restaurants.

Bruce is wedged between the AIS, a CIT campus, and a major highway, in the middle of suburbia with next to no PT links. The Belconnen town centre, the nearest area with good PT, hotels, restaurants and bars, something amounting to a nightlife, etc, is 4km away with no way to get there easily except to drive or walk.

So yeah, you're full of shit.

The City to the Lake plan was announced by Labour a decade ago, it included a stadium in Civic that was meant to be built by 2020. . . Almost nothing that was announced in City to the Lake ever came to fruition, and most of the land was sold off to developers (which is why we're in the predicament that we're in now). It's not the only example either, I'd be a very rich man if I had a dollar for every time an ACT government had announced plans to build new basketball courts or an ice rink.

I'll believe this new stadium when I'm sitting in it, which almost certainly won't happen within the next decade, and probably not the decade after that either unless the federal government steps in.

17k crowd averages is supposed to disprove my point lmao

yep they’ve packed them in at Bruce in the past

if you think a good ten minute walk from a train station means it’s well located for public transport then good luck to you

fact is with commbank or allianz aren’t centrally located and yet get major crowds

people buy food and drinks at the ground what do they need other options outside the ground

even a dump like accor gets decent crowds and it’s a ghost town around the ground

the act govt has said where it’s going to be and like I said it’s better than doing nothing

not even you can argue the status quo should be maintained

this is a good result for rugby league which only you can spin into a negative

 

[The Great Dane]

Te Kaha Stadium In Christchurch has to be the absolute minimum the ACT government should be aiming for.
Civic is obviously the best option, clearly it ain’t gonna happen for a bunch of reasons.
If they’re doing Bruce, do it properly. Build this in Bruce and tell me people won’t come.

People won't come in significantly larger numbers than they are now after the initial novelty effect wears off as you won't have addressed any of the broader issues with the stadium's location.

It'll still be in a location that's relatively difficult for most people in the south and east of city to get to, that has next to no public transport links, and none that are designed to deal with high capacity, with nothing to do around the stadium once you get there. It'll also be brutally hot any time the temperature's over 30°C because it has a clear roof.

 

[The Great Dane]

17k crowd averages is supposed to disprove my point lmao

yep they’ve packed them in at Bruce in the past

Once in 40 years, and it was before counters were installed in the turnstiles, so it's definitely off because they were counting tickets sold not attendance, and included every season ticket holder into the number even when they didn't attend.

Haven't really come close before or since either.

if you think a good ten minute walk from a train station means it’s well located for public transport then good luck to you

A 10min walk as opposed to the hour walk from Belco to Bruce stadium... You're so embarrassingly clueless.

fact is with commbank or allianz aren’t centrally located and yet get major crowds

You don't know what centrally located means in this context, and I can't be bothered explaining it to you.

people buy food and drinks at the ground what do they need other options outside the ground

Only morons do if they have other options, and a whole bunch of people just refuse to go when they don't have other options.

even a dump like accor gets decent crowds and it’s a ghost town around the ground

Sydney Olympic Park is practically Highstreet compared to Bruce. You've obviously never been to Bruce considering the way you're talking.

the act govt has said where it’s going to be and like I said it’s better than doing nothing

They've said where it's going to be and continued to do nothing on and off for 15 years now. This is no different.
You've literally got no idea what you're talking about...

not even you can argue the status quo should be maintained

You're the one arguing for the status quo and you so clueless that you don't even realise it.

this is a good result for rugby league which only you can spin into a negative

What's happening is the equivalent of being served a shit sandwich and being told to like it, and mark my words, once the rectangle is built talk will quickly move to an oval and suddenly location won't be an issue anymore.

Talk may move to a "multipurpose" before then the way things are going, especially if the AFL expresses even the slightest interest in basing a team here before the stadium is built.

Either way we'll end up with an oval monstrosity or be stuck in the back water that is Bruce for the next 30-50 years while the AFL is living it up in a good location in the city, and people like you will be dumbstruck and confused as to why and how it happened.

 

[Wb1234]

Once in 40 years, and it was before counters were installed in the turnstiles, so it's definitely off because they were counting tickets sold not attendance, and included every season ticket holder into the number even when they didn't attend.

Haven't really come close before or since either.

A 10min walk as opposed to the hour walk from Belco to Bruce stadium... You're so embarrassingly clueless.

You don't know what centrally located means in this context, and I can't be bothered explaining it to you.

Only morons do if they have other options, and a whole bunch of people just refuse to go when they don't have other options.

Sydney Olympic Park is practically Highstreet compared to Bruce. You've obviously never been to Bruce considering the way you're talking.

They've said where it's going to be and continued to do nothing on and off for 15 years now. This is no different.
You've literally got no idea what you're talking about...

You're the one arguing for the status quo and you so clueless that you don't even realise it.

What's happening is the equivalent of being served a shit sandwich and being told to like it, and mark my words, once the rectangle is built talk will quickly move to an oval and suddenly location won't be an issue anymore.

Talk may move to a "multipurpose" before then the way things are going, especially if the AFL expresses even the slightest interest in basing a team here before the stadium is built.

Either way we'll end up with an oval monstrosity or be stuck in the back water that is Bruce for the next 30-50 years while the AFL is living it up in a good location in the city, and people like you will be dumbstruck and confused as to why and how it happened.

I visited Bruce stadiu once and somehow I managed to get out alive

bought some food and drink at the ground

easy to park got back in the cbd in ten mins

must’ve just been lucky I guess lmao

my issues were it was freezing and the stands are built so far from the field

a modern roofed stadium there would be perfect wonder if that’s a chance in the real world rather than Danes world

 

[Heisenberg]

People won't come in significantly larger numbers than they are now after the initial novelty effect wears off as you won't have addressed any of the broader issues with the stadium's location.

It'll still be in a location that's relatively difficult for most people in the south and east of city to get to, that has next to no public transport links, and none that are designed to deal with high capacity, with nothing to do around the stadium once you get there. It'll also be brutally hot any time the temperature's over 30°C because it has a clear roof.

Completely agree with you. For the record I am firmly in the City stadium camp.

However, If it is going to be Bruce I’m hopeful they can design roads in and out that work for major events, prioritise a bus lane, I don’t know what the answers are.
Starting from scratch has its benefits.

Not sold on talk of a precinct though. A new brew pub is great, but that precinct dies without visitors when there is no event.

 

[Perth Red]

PR obviously never saw this -


The Raiders sure haven't forgotten it -

Remembering the snow game!

The snow that hit Canberra this morning might be fleeting, but memories from the Raiders infamous snow game in 2000 will live on forever.

www.raiders.com.au

I grew up watching winter RL in places like whitehaven and barrow, that’s a positively balmy day out in Cumbria!
But yeh let’s spend $300mill on a roof for the one game in a three decades it snows in canberra. maybe people should toughen up A bit. A 4 sided stadium with decent drip line Is perfectly adequate in australia.

 

[Suitman]

17k crowd averages is supposed to disprove my point lmao

yep they’ve packed them in at Bruce in the past

if you think a good ten minute walk from a train station means it’s well located for public transport then good luck to you

fact is with commbank or allianz aren’t centrally located and yet get major crowds

people buy food and drinks at the ground what do they need other options outside the ground

even a dump like accor gets decent crowds and it’s a ghost town around the ground

the act govt has said where it’s going to be and like I said it’s better than doing nothing

not even you can argue the status quo should be maintained

this is a good result for rugby league which only you can spin into a negative

Oh dear. I don't understand why you are settling for 2nd best.

 

[Wb1234]

I grew up watching winter RL in places like whitehaven and barrow, that’s a positively balmy day out in Cumbria!
But yeh let’s spend $300mill on a roof for the one game in a three decades it snows in canberra. maybe people should toughen up A bit. A 4 sided stadium with decent drip line Is perfectly adequate in australia.

That might explain the perpetual negativity

that freezing breeze off the North Sea and a decrepid caravan park

Oh dear. I don't understand why you are settling for 2nd best.

because that’s the only options on the table

despite what people write on here the stadium doesn’t need a precinct to be a sucess that’s a load of bs

 

[Perth Red]

Having been to Bruce it desperately needs replacing, not refurbing.,but not where it is. It was a shtter of a place to get to with nothing at all around it. I won’t be rushing back. If you want to attract event tourism you need the event areanas in the city near hotels and close to restaurants and bars. Just so happens public transport links are also best into the city centre, go figure!

 

[Perth Red]

That might explain the perpetual negativity

because that’s the only options on the table

despite what people write on here the stadium doesn’t need a precinct to be a sucess that’s a load of bs

Weirdly the coldest countries always rate highest on the happiness scales. Go figure.

no it doesn’t but it’s been proven that fans prefer it and that it makes going to the game more enjoyable. Nothing else to do you’re spending a lot of money hoping for a result. At least having something nice to eat ajd a few beers and laughs afterwards makes the losses easier to handle and not feeling like a waste of time and money.

every stadium I’ve been to with stuff near by has been a better night out. Suncorp, ammi, commbank, allianz, my faves.

a modern stadium should have this location feature and good public transport linkages, it’s stadium 101 really.

 

[Suitman]

despite what people write on here the stadium doesn’t need a precinct to be a sucess that’s a load of bs

It's a proven fact that stadiums around vibrant precincts are more successful.
In fact, it doesn't even need to be proven.
Of course they f**king would be, as opposed to stadiums out in the sticks.