The Game Future NRL Stadiums part II

[Russell Crowe's Band]

Why should the government pay a cent towards Cronulla? Privately owned. Let the developers pay

dunno. maybe if it could be used more as a community asset?

I would prefer if we own the place that we get it privately funded. but anyway

 

[BlueandGold]

Not that upset , but I do believe the money could be better spent elsewhere.

Not the ridiculous idea of $25m to each suburban ground though.

Better spent....can you explain that one for me if you don't mind?

And don't say move Parra to ANZ, what a joke of an idea :lol::lol:

Stadium return for investment

Pepper stadium - about 160k patrons a year. 0 sellouts

Cambelltown - about 48k patrons a year. 0 sellouts

Manly - about 160k patrons a year. maybe 1 sellout in a good year.

Skarks - Privately owned, no return for Government. 0 sellouts.

Kogra - 4 games a year

Wollongong - 4 games a year

Pirtek 26 games a year with over 400k+ patrons through the gate and with anywhere from 5 - 12+ sellouts a year. Great transport links with a tram system being built to join it to ANZ stadium and the inner West.

Parra Council also chipped in 30m of its own money to help push this stadium through, any other council willing to help pay for new or refurbs stadiums? Fat chance.

WSW 18.3k Members with a waiting list of about 2-3k wanting to be members.
Eels 20k+ members with some success and room to grow.

Super Rugby will create a team for the west at Pirtek in future also.

There is no better stadium to spend the money on.

 

[BlueandGold]

why do they always say the wanderers fill up pirtek stadium to capacity? Haven't the Eels crowds been higher the last few years?

Technically the Wanderers sellout Pirtek more than Parra but that is only because Parra take games against to Dogs and the Tigers to ANZ.

They both sellout Pirtek enough to justify the money being spent.

Parra want more Corporate area's while the Wanderers want more capacity, i think they are meeting in the middle somewhere.

Just to clarify a sellout is when all tickets have been exhausted online or at the ground has little to do with a capacity crowd.

 

[BlueandGold]

Still say:
New parra 35k stadium $300mill - Bulldogs, Wests, eels
New Moore park 35k stadium $300mill - roosters, Souths, dragons
New manly 20k $200mill - never fill it 1 tennant
Cronulla significant upgrade 20k $150mill :lol:
Penrith new stadium 20k $200mill - never fill it as is, 1 tennant.
ANZ reconfigure $450mill - lipstick on a pig, not enough to make it world class.

Would set the game up in Sydney for next 40 years and give every club best chance of survival.

New parra 35k stadium $300mill - Wests 3 games, Eels, WSW, Panthers 2 games, NRL finals series.

Refurb Moore park $200mill - roosters, 1 game Dragons, Waratahs, Sydney fc, NRL final series.

ANZ major rebuild $800mill - Souths, Bulldogs, SOO, NRL GF, NRL finals series, Socceroos, Wallabies, Parra 3 games, Wests 3 games, Dragons 3 games

Fixed it for ya mate..:lol::lol:

 

[herbert henry1908]

Better spent....can you explain that one for me if you don't mind?

And don't say move Parra to ANZ, what a joke of an idea :lol::lol

C
room .

You're taking this as a shot at the Eels , it's not that at all.

I've already said a Pepper Stadium upgrade can't be justified , I'm not looking at this through a Penrith lense but a Sydney wide one.

Yes Eels could take some games to ANZ , if Dogs , Souths & Tigers can why not the Eels? It's been a very successful venture for the two main tenants.



Where could the money be better spent?

A southern stadium for the Sharks/Dragons (and a rumoured 3rd Sydney Aleague team)

 

[applesauce]

Can the Sharks & Dragons (part-time), Souths (part with ANZ or full-time), Manly & Roosters (full-time) share Moore Park in whatever form it takes?

While Parramatta, Wests, Bulldogs, Penrith split the remaining games between ANZ and Pirtek (with Penrith also at Pepper part-time)?

I think it will be tough to get large crowds accustomed to Moore Park for finals or games more appropriate for 40-50k without having more than the Roosters playing there.

 

[herbert henry1908]

In the end though I won't be upset if the Pirtek upgrade goes ahead , as you point out the stadium will be used all year round.

I just question the wisdom of two large investments so close together.

 

[BlueandGold]

You're taking this as a shot at the Eels , it's not that at all.

I've already said a Pepper Stadium upgrade can't be justified , I'm not looking at this through a Penrith lense but a Sydney wide one.

Yes Eels could take some games to ANZ , if Dogs , Souths & Tigers can why not the Eels? It's been a very successful venture for the two main tenants.



Where could the money be better spent?

A southern stadium for the Sharks/Dragons (and a rumoured 3rd Sydney Aleague team)

The Eels already take games to ANZ, so when you say Eels to ANZ i can only take that as you want them to be there permanently, sorry for the misunderstanding if you meant some games only.

 

[CowboyFuriousFury]

Pirtek should be a priority considering it has two tenants who use the ground year long compared to the suburban grounds which are only used in the nrl season. Suburban grounds have met there expiration date along-time ago it make the game look like a pub game not a professional one with such out-dated and inadequate grounds.

Not up to the professional stadium standards of modern day, the suburban grounds so cherished they rarely sell out despite supporters romanticizing and praising such grounds.

The numbers say otherwise the demand isn't there to recommend any money to suburban grounds, the self-interested heartland clubs once again putting themselves first and not the game.

 

[herbert henry1908]

The Eels already take games to ANZ, so when you say Eels to ANZ i can only take that as you want them to be there permanently, sorry for the misunderstanding if you meant some games only.

Well I do mean the majority. Particularly given a new development will serve your corporates well there.

It's not so much that I'm against Pirtek , it's just the proximity of the developments bother me.

 

[herbert henry1908]

Pirtek should be a priority considering it has two tenants who use the ground year long compared to the suburban grounds which are only used in the nrl season. Suburban grounds have met there expiration date along-time ago it make the game look like a pub game not a professional one with such out-dated and inadequate grounds.

Not up to the professional stadium standards of modern day, the suburban grounds so cherished they rarely sell out despite supporters romanticizing and praising such grounds.

The numbers say otherwise the demand isn't there to recommend any money to suburban grounds, the self-interested heartland clubs once again putting themselves first and not the game.

Needs mixed use.

The suburban grounds can still have a part to play , especially when playing an out of Sydney team.

A pure 2/3 stadium strategy like Melbourne will be a failure in Sydney.

 

[Frank Discussion]

the self-interested heartland clubs once again putting themselves first and not the game.

What a load of naive tripe. The clubs, be they heartland or not, have one responsibility; and that is to the members, fans and sponsors of that club. There is no club that will ever put "the game" in front of it's own interests and nor should they. Manly, Cronulla and Penrith want to play full time out of their own grounds and that's what their supporters want. The management of those clubs will fight tooth and nail to stay in their districts and good on them.

Why should the government pay a cent towards Cronulla? Privately owned. Let the developers pay

Fair point. Why then should Cronulla be disadvantaged in being forced to play away from their privately owned venue so that rival NRL clubs and other codes get stadium upgrades?

 

[Frank Discussion]

Can the Sharks & Dragons (part-time), Souths (part with ANZ or full-time), Manly & Roosters (full-time) share Moore Park in whatever form it takes?

While Parramatta, Wests, Bulldogs, Penrith split the remaining games between ANZ and Pirtek (with Penrith also at Pepper part-time)?

I think it will be tough to get large crowds accustomed to Moore Park for finals or games more appropriate for 40-50k without having more than the Roosters playing there.

To answer your question not Cronulla nor Manly. Initial market research has shown that under 5% of their 20k or so combined members support a move to a central stadium and the rest are hostile to the idea.

 

[beave]

Still nothing about the NQ cbd stadium.

Getting frustrating.

 

[BlueandGold]

Well I do mean the majority. Particularly given a new development will serve your corporates well there.

It's not so much that I'm against Pirtek , it's just the proximity of the developments bother me.

So your only issue is proximity.

Question, how long does it take a Panthers fan living in penrith to drive to Pirtek?

I drive to every home game at Pirtek from just past liverpool and it takes me about 40minuites.

 

[applesauce]

To answer your question not Cronulla nor Manly. Initial market research has shown that under 5% of their 20k or so combined members support a move to a central stadium and the rest are hostile to the idea.

But I would hazard a guess the vast majority (maybe 95%?) of those members live in and around Brooky.

If they move to a more central location then those fans located centrally will become members (not surveyed) or they have a greater base to grow from (see Souths: Redfern --> SFS --> Homebush).

They're hamstringing the potential available market if they stay in their small corner of Sydney.

 

[Perth Red]

Its a very interesting debate and dilemma for some clubs around staying local and not in all likelihood growing much ,or taking a massive punt and becoming central and hoping that they become like the dogs and Souths and can develop a wider city appeal.

the extra $1.5mill from the NRl should hopefully ease some of the immediate financial pressures of many clubs and maybe give them a little breathing room to explore whats best for them. it is hard to see panthers, sharks and manly not falling behind the other Sydney clubs if they stay as are with small antiquated stadiums with avg corporate facilities and a confined fanbase reach. The plus for them is that the NRL is determined, mostly, to make sure every existing club regardless of size or sustainability has a fighting chance of winning on the field and surviving off it.

 

[Saint Doc]

Fair point. Why then should Cronulla be disadvantaged in being forced to play away from their privately owned venue so that rival NRL clubs and other codes get stadium upgrades?

I agree. No club should be forced somewhere. If the financial incentives are good enough, clubs will want to move. If they aren't, they shouldn't have to

 

[Frank Discussion]

But I would hazard a guess the vast majority (maybe 95%?) of those members live in and around Brooky.

If they move to a more central location then those fans located centrally will become members (not surveyed) or they have a greater base to grow from (see Souths: Redfern --> SFS --> Homebush).

They're hamstringing the potential available market if they stay in their small corner of Sydney.

The other option you present is to alienate almost your entire existing fanbase on the punt that you have broader appeal outside your geographic region, which is commercial suicide.

Until the stadium plan provides more benefits to clubs like Manly, Cronulla and Penrith they will continue to oppose it because it IS A BAD DEAL FOR THOSE CLUBS.

 

[Frank Discussion]

Its a very interesting debate and dilemma for some clubs around staying local and not in all likelihood growing much ,or taking a massive punt and becoming central and hoping that they become like the dogs and Souths and can develop a wider city appeal.

the extra $1.5mill from the NRl should hopefully ease some of the immediate financial pressures of many clubs and maybe give them a little breathing room to explore whats best for them. it is hard to see panthers, sharks and manly not falling behind the other Sydney clubs if they stay as are with small antiquated stadiums with avg corporate facilities and a confined fanbase reach. The plus for them is that the NRL is determined, mostly, to make sure every existing club regardless of size or sustainability has a fighting chance of winning on the field and surviving off it.

This is your problem. You live in this deluded fantasy land where multiple Sydney clubs are on the precipice of falling over at any second because their stadiums don't look like something out of the EPL. In reality the situation of all the Sydney clubs are not that bad. Sure some have financial issues but it's professional sport, there will always be those that sail close to the wind. In the last decade genuinely only Cronulla briefly looked like going broke, they survived it and are prospering and now the Tigers have a few issues but they will also survive one way or the other. There is no chance of them going broke. The Titans have also been at deaths door but they aint in Sydney, and have a pretty shit hot stadium so go figure.