The Game Future NRL Stadiums part II

[Perth Red]

They are struggling now, take a look at their financials, and it wont get any easier to keep pace with centralised clubs with 30k+ memberships, state of the art fan and corporate facilities and stadium deals raking in millions.

Suggesting because they have got by on the skin of their teeth in the past is somehow going to serve them well in the future as the world changes around them is the ultimate in delusional. You would make a good club chairman!

Sharks lost $1.5 million again last financial, Panthers AFTER a $3.1million leagues club grant lost $1.9million. Manly who knows what they lost but I bet it was significant. They are stuck between a rock (staying as they are and risk falling further behind the other clubs) and a hard place (move to a central stadium and risk losing what support they have).

 

[bazza]

Interesting , but parra & Homebush are a stones throw away from each other.

Also based of sheer population 3 teams is selling the game short. Sydney fast approaching 5 million people.


Anyway as I say I think we'd be crazy to totally abandon the north of Sydney.

Homebush is about half way between Parra and SFS
It would provide the 3 best stadiums in the 3 most accessible locations for Sydney population

If I really had a say in deciding the teams in the NRL it would be based on promotion and relegation - but that is for another thread

 

[Frank Discussion]

They are struggling now, take a look at their financials, and it wont get any easier to keep pace with centralised clubs with 30k+ memberships, state of the art fan and corporate facilities and stadium deals raking in millions.

The Dogs have huge money from poker machine income, they always have. Souths have millionaire benefactors who put money in wherever required and a gigantic supporter base which this celebrity endorsement mobilised. This is why these clubs are wealthy. Their stadium deals are cherries on the cake, not the reason for their wealth. They are also in the position where their supporter bases are geographically well serviced* by these stadiums so it's a flawed argument and completely f**king irrelevant for Penrith, Manly and Cronulla who are miles away from these joints.


The fact remains that centralisation made sense for Dogs and Souths and made already wealthy clubs wealthier. To suggest this model will work for clubs on the suburban fringes is ludicrous in the extreme and ironically all it does is serve to improve the facilities of these strong clubs at the expense of these smaller clubs paid up members.



*Souths did move away from Redfern but if ANZ didn't throw so much money at them they would be down the road at the SFS. It was a choice of central stadium or central stadium.

 

[bazza]

Where could the money be better spent?

A southern stadium for the Sharks/Dragons (and a rumoured 3rd Sydney Aleague team)

Hmm what is the better option

1. Spend money on a new stadium at Parramatta that has a site and plan with 2 popular tenants who want to play there full time

or

2. Build a new stadium in 'Southern Sydney' at an unknown location for 1 tenants who won't want to play there, another tenant who doesn't want to play there and if did would play at most 6 games and a 3rd tenant who doesn't exist

 

[Perth Red]

Panthers have millions of $'s in pokie machines, Manly has a millionaire benefactor, Cronulla has sold its assets to create a revenue. Nothing unique that Souths and Dogs have other than they have spread their appeal beyond the confines of a couple of suburbs.

Your kidding yourself re gate receipts. Both panthers and Sharks only got around $2mill in gate receipts. ANZ offers Souths and Dogs over half of that before a ticket is sold with no overheads of maintenance and running a stadium on game day.

Like I said it isn't an easy decision and I have no idea what the answer is for those three outlying clubs but I very much doubt they can stay as is into the future.

 

[bazza]

But I would hazard a guess the vast majority (maybe 95%?) of those members live in and around Brooky.

And are the 'members' questioned in fact season ticket holders
If so it is not surprising that they don't want to move

It would be worth surveying Cronulla/Manly fans that aren't season ticket holders to see their view

 

[Frank Discussion]

Panthers have millions of $'s in pokie machines, Manly has a millionaire benefactor, Cronulla has sold its assets to create a revenue. Nothing unique that Souths and Dogs have other than they have spread their appeal beyond the confines of a couple of suburbs.

Your kidding yourself re gate receipts. Both panthers and Sharks only got around $2mill in gate receipts. ANZ offers Souths and Dogs over half of that before a ticket is sold with no overheads of maintenance and running a stadium on game day.

Like I said it isn't an easy decision and I have no idea what the answer is for those three outlying clubs but I very much doubt they can stay as is into the future.

Why do you very much doubt it other than your inherent negativity and hysterical hatred of small Sydney clubs? All have survived and thrived in their current locations for decades. All are integral partners in the makeup of the NRL and the best thing is that they hold the whip hand here. If the NRL wants the stadium money they are going to have to appease these clubs and I bet that burns you up inside you petty, petty man.

Tom Petty.

 

[Frank Discussion]

And are the 'members' questioned in fact season ticket holders
If so it is not surprising that they don't want to move

It would be worth surveying Cronulla/Manly fans that aren't season ticket holders to see their view

The fans that were questioned were financial members. The bulk of those are season ticket holders. What value is the opinion of a "fan" who wont stump up $50 for a non ticketed mebership in this day and age?

 

[sensesmaybenumbed]

So your only issue is proximity.

Question, how long does it take a Panthers fan living in penrith to drive to Pirtek?

I drive to every home game at Pirtek from just past liverpool and it takes me about 40minuites.

Around 40 minutes would be a fair guess, but parking would be more time to add to that.

You'd really be better off getting the train (around 25 minutes Penrith to parra) and walking from Parra station. It would take about 15 minutes for that.

Your train travel is covered with your game ticket, and no parking cost as well as a faster trip. Easy call to make as I see it.

 

[bazza]

What value is the opinion of a "fan" who wont stump up $50 for a non ticketed mebership in this day and age?

Hard to say if that 'fan' would be a financial member if it was easier to get to more games

 

[BlueandGold]

Around 40 minutes would be a fair guess, but parking would be more time to add to that.

You'd really be better off getting the train (around 25 minutes Penrith to parra) and walking from Parra station. It would take about 15 minutes for that.

Your train travel is covered with your game ticket, and no parking cost as well as a faster trip. Easy call to make as I see it.

So 25min by train and a new light rail system being built through Parra to get to the stadium in no time at all.

Now i know why Gus wants to make this little sacrifice to take 2 games to Pirtek......its not much of a sacrifice at all and will do wanders for the Panthers football department revenue, also might get him a new western stadium in future if the Panthers are seen by State governments to be a team player. Smart man Gus.

Pirtek in a decade will most likely have 3 full time tenants and have 2 Panthers games, 2 Tigers games.

It will also be connected to ANZ with light rail, chuck in 30m from Parra council and you can see why this stadium was first cab of the rank.

The real fight is between the SCG Trust and the NRL clubs and ANZ.

Bringing Pirtek back into the discussion i think was a last ditch effort by some to try and grab some funds.

 

[Perth Red]

Why do you very much doubt it other than your inherent negativity and hysterical hatred of small Sydney clubs? All have survived and thrived in their current locations for decades. All are integral partners in the makeup of the NRL and the best thing is that they hold the whip hand here. If the NRL wants the stadium money they are going to have to appease these clubs and I bet that burns you up inside you petty, petty man.

Tom Petty.

sorry I thought I had explained why I doubt it, once again; they are losing shed loads of money now. The other clubs are going to get richer, bigger and stronger in brand new facilities drawing a city wide audience.

Thrived is a very interesting word you have used and would be interesting to know how you define thriving beyond keeping afloat.

yep the three outlying clubs should be recompensed for taking a massive gamble in moving to a central stadium model if that is what the NRl wants them to do, it is a great business risk for them. No problem at all with that.

Alternative for them is to stay as is and hope they can survive in the years to come on increasing NRL handouts or somehow growing a stagnant fanbase and corporate sponsorship portfolio beyond the slim chances of winning a GF.

 

[carcharias]

It is idiotic to make Cronulla manly and Penrith play there.
End of story.

FFS

 

[herbert henry1908]

So your only issue is proximity.

Question, how long does it take a Panthers fan living in penrith to drive to Pirtek?

I drive to every home game at Pirtek from just past liverpool and it takes me about 40minuites.

I don't live in Penrith or surrounds , honestly couldn't say.

But I don't think the panthers should be immune from taking some games to another stadium.

 

[beave]

Cronulla, Manly and Penrith should be playing out of their respective suburban stadiums albeit with some $$$ spent to get them up to scratch. Brookvale especially, that old girl needs a fair bit done to her. Knocking down the southern stand and continuing the corner stand around in its place with a lower terrace included and obviously something with the hill would be my priority if I had a say in it.


Im heading down for the panthers cows game on saturday, I lived out at Richmond in the late 90's/early 2k's and used to go to a lot of penrith and parra games during the period. Looking forward to seeing what has been done to the stadium, I havent been back since the western stand got extended.

 

[Frank Discussion]

Hard to say if that 'fan' would be a financial member if it was easier to get to more games

What an insane statement. Clubs have a range of memberships that suit your location and desire to attend games from non ticketed "supporter" memberships to international to interstate to "Flexi 5" all the way up to 12 games a season psychos like me at all venues. If that "fan" is not willing to stump up a few bucks to financially support their club why would a club value their opinion over a paid up member?

 

[Frank Discussion]

sorry I thought I had explained why I doubt it, once again; they are losing shed loads of money now. The other clubs are going to get richer, bigger and stronger in brand new facilities drawing a city wide audience.

Thrived is a very interesting word you have used and would be interesting to know how you define thriving beyond keeping afloat.

yep the three outlying clubs should be recompensed for taking a massive gamble in moving to a central stadium model if that is what the NRl wants them to do, it is a great business risk for them. No problem at all with that.

Alternative for them is to stay as is and hope they can survive in the years to come on increasing NRL handouts or somehow growing a stagnant fanbase and corporate sponsorship portfolio beyond the slim chances of winning a GF.

Panthers have millions of $'s in pokie machines, Manly has a millionaire benefactor, Cronulla has sold its assets to create a revenue. Nothing unique that Souths and Dogs have other than they have spread their appeal beyond the confines of a couple of suburbs.

Your kidding yourself re gate receipts. Both panthers and Sharks only got around $2mill in gate receipts. ANZ offers Souths and Dogs over half of that before a ticket is sold with no overheads of maintenance and running a stadium on game day.

Like I said it isn't an easy decision and I have no idea what the answer is for those three outlying clubs but I very much doubt they can stay as is into the future.

I'm not arguing with you anymore.

 

[TheFrog]

You'd really be better off getting the train (around 25 minutes Penrith to parra) and walking from Parra station. It would take about 15 minutes for that.

This is the inter-urban trains, which have only one stop between Penrith and Parramatta (Blacktown). They only run one an hour. Not much good if you use an intermediate station. The regular services take considerably longer, running time is more like 40 minutes.

Of course, you can hardly expect families to travel by train after a night game that concludes at 10pm or so, followed by a 30 minute walk to the station and then the possibly dangerous trip home. People won't do this. They'll stay at home. Parking in the vicinity of Parramatta Stadium is pretty abysmal too.

 

[siv]

Needs mixed use.

The suburban grounds can still have a part to play , especially when playing an out of Sydney team.

A pure 2/3 stadium strategy like Melbourne will be a failure in Sydney.

In Melbourne are there any clubs other than Geelong that are not inner city clubs

 

[mongoose]

The Melbourne model for AFL is not all its cracked up to be anyway. Sure the crowds are good but I have heard more than a few AFL followers say that the teams in Melbourne have no identity anymore.