The Game Future NRL Stadiums part II

[Ozzi_78]

A

As Apollo said the cost of upkeep is built into the rental cost and whatever other areas of revenue generation the stadium holds back such as naming rights, stadium seat memberships etc.

if sharks are to get some funding I just hope it’s a significant amount so something major can be done properly. Like I’ve said before I’d rather see major upgrades on fewer stadiums than small upgrades to them all that make little difference long term.

Fair enough. Let’s give them something they can actually do something with in addition to their own funding. None of the money will be wasted. Unlike other govt initiatives.

 

[Croz Au]

I do understand some peoples approach on this subject; whilst some can be jsut to troll and/or agenda ridden, the majority have been a healthy discussion.
My big take of the whole matter (with knowledge I have acquired along the way) is the following:
1. No more merging or movement of Sydney clubs; however I do see future movement of tigers full time to Campbelltown and dragons to Wollongong with a token game at liechardt and Kogarah.
2. Fans don’t like to travel. When you have a game on the tv vs cost of parking, tickets, fees, weather and so on. Majority will want to stay at home in the comfort of their homes. This issue has been discussed by plenty of clubs and NRL HQ
3. Tribalism is part of the game. It’s massive, those big sharks/merge, south’s/roosters and so on. They product big $$ on FTA . The rivalries need to be pushed more and get that feeling of it back .
4. Womens competition- it’s a must; however NRL did it incorrectly where both sharks and south’s lead the way in this area for some time and did not include them at the start of the competition. It’s a huge slap in the face of the clubs who put in massive $$ and workload in to making it a reality.
5. stadiums. Yes we need them it’s that home ground advantage, though when having two — four teams playing from one stadium, how does a team have home ground advantage , if the other team is also at home ?

 

[titoelcolombiano]

Were you new to the game when you first learnt about it and decided to follow it, or were you born with an encyclopaedia worth of knowledge about its history and some bizarre phobia of travelling to the SFS?

Everyone was introduced to the game at some stage of their life. For one reason or another, they decided to follow it.

There's nothing unique about Sydney RL fans that means they need nine tiny clubs based out of small grounds that are hard to access. What I'm hearing from you and a few Cronulla fans is an obnoxious sense of entitlement that the sport should revolve around a few RL fans from Sydney because they don't want to move into the 21st century.

There are thousands of fumbleball and RU fans from Northern Beaches and North Shore who travel across the harbour to watch the Swans and Waratahs play at the SCG and SFS. If they can do it then there's no reason a few thousand Seaweed fans cannot travel across the harbour to hear Eagle Rock blasted out of the PA system as their team runs onto the SFS.

Love the new Avatar mate

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

actually that's a good point. League in general just has a bigger concentration of fans in Sydney than the other codes so it will always get bigger rating on TV even if the Swans have more "active" supporters.

The problem is that all these Sydney clubs that seem like they have small fan bases in their local region have built up larger followings around the country, particularly regional NSW and QLD. Their brands are recognised everywhere. I've been to many Broncos and Titans games against every club and Manly has very solid support up here. Just about every club does.

Which is why I think one or two of them could relocate to another region and become stronger than they are in Sydney.

Manly fans across the country will still support them as the Central Coast Sea Eagles. We've got a good stadium in Gosford that has been wasted by our game for almost 20 years while a substandard ground on the Northern Beaches has given the game a black eye. When international viewers see run down grounds like Brookvale, Endeavour, Leichhardt and Wollongong Stadium hosting games it makes them think we're a tiny amateurish game with no money and lowbrow hicks for fans.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I was wondering why you were still here. I couldn’t let that one go with such complete and utter rubbish in it. This thread is a cesspit. Can’t wait for the rest of the money to be dishes out so everyone can get over it.

So how do you explain the success of the Brisbane Lions and Sydney Swans?

If what you're saying is true, then they would draw no more than 5k to 10k people to their home games, yeah?

Lions draw more than the Bears ever did.

It makes a mockery of everything you said, doesn't it?

Swans are also the largest club in Sydney. Bigger than any RL club in Sydney.

So what evidence do you have that no one in Adelaide or Perth will support a couple of relocated RL clubs from Sydney?

Do you have any evidence, or is it just a biased and narrow-minded opinion that you're presenting as fact?

 

[Yosemite Sam]

The AFL will make sure that a rectangular SA won't happen - I suggest that is one reason they have started playing matches there again.

Plus, like the 2022 bid, any future WC bid will have the final at the MCG, which will be partly rebuilt by then with a capacity of 105K (new southern stand) plus 5k drop in seats (like Optus) to make it quasi rectangular. 110K will be hard for FIFA to resist - would be the biggest crowd since 1968 I think.

The AFL won't have a say. Even in oval mode SA was hated by all AFL fans.

Not sure where you get your info from but every document I have seen from the 2022 bid had SA as the final venue with 91K capacity. MCG will never host a World Cup match even with a drop in pitch. It doesn't come close to meeting FIFA guidelines.

FFA strongly favours Sydney for all big matches (as it should) just like the women's game, a men's World Cup final would 100% be held at Stadium Australia. I know its hard for Victorians to accept. Moot point though, we aint ever hosting a World cup in our lifetime.

 

[Ozzi_78]

So how do you explain the success of the Brisbane Lions and Sydney Swans?

If what you're saying is true, then they would draw no more than 5k to 10k people to their home games, yeah?

Lions draw more than the Bears ever did.

It makes a mockery of everything you said, doesn't it?

Swans are also the largest club in Sydney. Bigger than any RL club in Sydney.

So what evidence do you have that no one in Adelaide or Perth will support a couple of relocated RL clubs from Sydney?

Do you have any evidence, or is it just a biased and narrow-minded opinion that you're presenting as fact?

4 words…

The Reds and Rams.

New entities might work…. Relocations won’t in rugby league.

PR … hand on heart would you follow the sharks in Perth with as much gusto as the pirates?

 

[Perth Red]

4 words…

The Reds and Rams.

New entities might work…. Relocations won’t in rugby league.

PR … hand on heart would you follow the sharks in Perth with as much gusto as the pirates?

No. But that would be more to do with ownership and the constant white anting by East coast media re the club needing to move back to Sydney. If the club was owned locally and called WA or Perth then tbh the brand is just the brand. id come to love it I'm sure. Given two of my Fave HKR players played for the Sharks I actually have an affinity for the sharks brand, just the club as it was that irked me as the classic example of why the NRL is stuck in its old thinking.

But I wouldn't want a club that was still owned by a Sydney LC to be playing out of Perth regardless of which one it was. If a club was serious about relocation Id be happy to see a WA owner have 50%, NRL 25% and the relocating club 25% ownership. That could work.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

4 words…

The Reds and Rams.

New entities might work…. Relocations won’t in rugby league.

PR … hand on heart would you follow the sharks in Perth with as much gusto as the pirates?

How does the short history of the Rams and Reds support your claim that relocating Sydney teams to Adelaide and Perth is destined to fail?

Neither team was relocated from Sydney.

The Reds and Rams weren't given time to establish themselves during a tumultuous period in our game. Their first season attendances put many Sydney clubs to shame. The only reason they were canned was because lowbrow hicks from the ARL with a "Sydney first" mentality and a ruthless News Ltd who only cared about cable TV and newspaper subscriptions weren't interested in expanding the game. They didn't even want a second Brisbane team and killed off the Chargers, despite the fact they were profitable.

 

[Ozzi_78]

If a team that is created specifically for a city fails then manufacturing one from a Sydney entity won’t work. But your opinion won’t be changed and that’s fine. Let’s see if a Sydney club is ever moved and then we will know who is right.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

I do understand some peoples approach on this subject; whilst some can be jsut to troll and/or agenda ridden, the majority have been a healthy discussion.
My big take of the whole matter (with knowledge I have acquired along the way) is the following:
1. No more merging or movement of Sydney clubs; however I do see future movement of tigers full time to Campbelltown and dragons to Wollongong with a token game at liechardt and Kogarah.
2. Fans don’t like to travel. When you have a game on the tv vs cost of parking, tickets, fees, weather and so on. Majority will want to stay at home in the comfort of their homes. This issue has been discussed by plenty of clubs and NRL HQ
3. Tribalism is part of the game. It’s massive, those big sharks/merge, south’s/roosters and so on. They product big $$ on FTA . The rivalries need to be pushed more and get that feeling of it back .
4. Womens competition- it’s a must; however NRL did it incorrectly where both sharks and south’s lead the way in this area for some time and did not include them at the start of the competition. It’s a huge slap in the face of the clubs who put in massive $$ and workload in to making it a reality.
5. stadiums. Yes we need them it’s that home ground advantage, though when having two — four teams playing from one stadium, how does a team have home ground advantage , if the other team is also at home ?

Why shouldn't there be any more merging or relocation of Sydney clubs?

There's just not enough RL fans in Sydney to support its nine NRL clubs. Take away the annual grant and many of Sydney's clubs would be dead. Broadcast rights revenue is the only reason the clubs are given a $13m annual grant.

Most of our game's viewers are older people and it's well known that the younger generation don't care for FTA and cable TV. Good luck getting massive broadcast rights deals to prop up nine unprofitable Sydney clubs in 2050.

We should be using the money to grow the game in new markets and amongst the younger generations so we have a strong professional competition in 2050.

AwFuL, NBL and BBL are able to convince their fans to travel to watch their teams play. It's just a Sydney RL problem and its due to the supply of teams and content being far greater than demand. Building new stadia for nine unviable clubs isn't going to improve attendances that much. AwFuL attendances grew once teams abandoned their old grounds and moved ro the MCG and The Dome.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

If a team that is created specifically for a city fails then manufacturing one from a Sydney entity won’t work. But your opinion won’t be changed and that’s fine. Let’s see if a Sydney club is ever moved and then we will know who is right.

That's just your opinion and there's no evidence to support it. You're entitled to your opinion, but you cannot present it as an undeniable truth that must be blindly accepted.

Brisbane Bears were a new club and struggled. They merged with Fitzroy and have been far more successful. Their example makes a mockery of your claim.

Neither the Rams nor Reds failed. They drew more fans through the gate than some Sydney clubs. Arthurson, Quayle and News Ltd were responsible for The Reds' axing. Adelaide was a sacrifice to appease lowbrow hicks from struggling Sydney clubs who didn't want to accept reality.

 

[Ozzi_78]

Your claim that it would work is just as much a guess as mine that it would fail. Let’s hope we get to settle it one day. Til then up up the funding for the privately owned stadiums baby.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Love the new Avatar mate

Up The Mighty Phins!

Add another 10k seats to their stadium and it will be good for NRL games.

 

[Perth Red]

Up The Mighty Phins!

Add another 10k seats to their stadium and it will be good for NRL games.

you do see the irony in calling for an outer suburban sub standard stadium for the dolphins whilst at the same time saying that Sydney clubs shouldnt be playing in outer suburban substandard stadiums dont you? The whole point of Brisbane2 was to better utilise Suncorp for RL benefit!

 

[marshall stalin]

I have been watching these forums for many years, and have seen your comments.
as I have previously stated, there are plenty of fans for clubs in Sydney, that don’t travel.
Having team sharing home grounds or facilities away from their own territories, making teams travel to stadiums outside the area, would lose fans, which would have an effect on sponsorships, which means less funds available for clubs.
I see where you are trying to go with it; however you have tunnel vision on this point, and Miss the big picture. Fans = $$
The big $$ for the game is coming from NSW, more to the point, sydney.

it would be a step backward, forcing teams to play the same facilities.
Bulldogs want to go back to belmore, and it is more common sense for tigers to move out to a good facility on Campbelltown, where the play at least one game a year at liechardt.
Dragons would move to the gong, and have the one game at Kogarah.
both Kogarah and liechardt are now heavily surrounded by housing, and would be extremely difficult to develop further with infrastructure restrictions.
Sharks will be staying shark park and have the capability and capacity for extra improvements to stadium to ensure it is a niche stadium capable of a 18-20k.

Wollongong is pretty new still, though had some issues being extremely close to the shore line.
Penrith and Campbelltown, likewise to manly that require a refurb.

Yeh too close to the Wollongong Ocean as Vautin described it as

 

[marshall stalin]

Yeah… nah…. It’s not all about the Pennies mate, Sounds like you had your mind set on a spanking new stadium and have had your heart broken. If you’re so confident your fans will travel why can’t you share BankWest with Parra… barely 30 mins down the M4 and you can have the facilities you crave for every second week.

Votes come into it - Campbelltown wont be upgraded by the NSW State or Fed Coalition Governments as it's rusted on Labor territory

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

you do see the irony in calling for an outer suburban sub standard stadium for the dolphins whilst at the same time saying that Sydney clubs shouldnt be playing in outer suburban substandard stadiums dont you? The whole point of Brisbane2 was to better utilise Suncorp for RL benefit!

Unless Dolphin Oval is increased to 20k or more seats then it should never host an NRL Premiership game.

I don't care if it's never used as an NRL ground, but if it were increased to 20k then it would be a great place to hold Brisbane Roar, Queensland Reds and a few Moreton Bay Dolphins games. Brisbane does need a boutique stadium for the Reds and Roar.

 

[Jamberoo]

The AFL won't have a say. Even in oval mode SA was hated by all AFL fans.

Not sure where you get your info from but every document I have seen from the 2022 bid had SA as the final venue with 91K capacity. MCG will never host a World Cup match even with a drop in pitch. It doesn't come close to meeting FIFA guidelines.

FFA strongly favours Sydney for all big matches (as it should) just like the women's game, a men's World Cup final would 100% be held at Stadium Australia. I know its hard for Victorians to accept. Moot point though, we aint ever hosting a World cup in our lifetime.

Was just going by Wikipedia. Soccer isn't big in Melbourne compared with Sydney so you probably deserve it. Agree we will never host up WC unless it goes biennial. Our last bid was a joke. Here is the official bid video.

 

[MugaB]

you do see the irony in calling for an outer suburban sub standard stadium for the dolphins whilst at the same time saying that Sydney clubs shouldnt be playing in outer suburban substandard stadiums dont you? The whole point of Brisbane2 was to better utilise Suncorp for RL benefit!

But they are playing at suncorp, the plan was to bring a few games to redcliffe and sunshine coast too... it might be a few years before a set ampunt of games are played there regularly, till then its suncorp