Game of Thrones VIII

[adamkungl]

People seem to be really upset online that the Night King wasn't the final boss.

I think a lot of people seem to have forgotten the point of this show - the White Walkers have never been the true enemies, it's the scheming of other humans that cause the most misery.

Also, Jon is on course to follow Ned and Robb if he's not careful. Both of them focused on what was the right thing to do and what they saw as the real threat meanwhile the Lannisters' Lannistered.

Thematically most people thought that it would show how inconsequential and shitty petty human wars are in the grand scheme of things.

ASOIAF was partially borne of a desire to explore what LOTR might be like without the obvious 'happily ever after' moments. The show has become, to me at least, LOTR without the characters and themes actually making sense. Epic for the sake of epic, cutting plot corners just to justify a big surprise or cool special effect.

You can draw parallels with Arya to Frodo and Eowyn's big moments. But both of those moments made sense, physically and thematically.
I'm NOT saying Arya didn't earn it or wasn't set up to be 'the one' - she was, sure.
But how did she get there, the NK surrounded by a wall of zombies and actually f**kin omnipotent.
The bloke's invulnerable to dragonfire, but destroyed by a single stab of dragonglass? I thought they were basically imbued with the same magic.
Bran didn't show any kind of power that would make the NK so desperate to focus on him and be in a potential trap situation. The justification in ep 2 was vague and flimsy.
The omnipotent NK engineered events over thousands of years but didn't see himself being stabbed by a teenager.

After the huge tension of the battle, the feeling that holy shit they actually are gonna kill everyone, the payoff felt cheap for me. Mad Cersei being the final boss doesn't feel exciting.

I've put away any hopes of the finale holding any challenging themes or thought provoking twists.
Dany and Jon will have a petty tiff over the throne, they'll kiss and make up, defeat Cersei and rule together. All their friends will be their Kingsguard. Etc etc

 

[Walt Flanigan]

But how did she get there, the NK surrounded by a wall of zombies and actually f**kin omnipotent.

Perhaps she was already there? She headed off just before the NK and Jon were Dragon fighting in the sky so she had plenty of time.

 

[Valheru]

.
But how did she get there, the NK surrounded by a wall of zombies and actually f**kin omnipotent.
The bloke's invulnerable to dragonfire, but destroyed by a single stab of dragonglass? I thought they were basically imbued with the same magic.
Bran didn't show any kind of power that would make the NK so desperate to focus on him and be in a potential trap situation. The justification in ep 2 was vague and flimsy.

Agree with all of the above.

He can survive a full frontal dragon attack which would kill any other night walker but a bit of dragon glass and the whole army falls dead.

I get they wanted to show that he was superior to the others but he absolutely had to show some vulnerability to fire for it to make sense that dragon glass would be his Achilles heel.

 

[Walt Flanigan]

He can survive a full frontal dragon attack which would kill any other night walker but a bit of dragon glass and the whole army falls dead.

It was a Valyrian Steel dagger that killed him. The same one Bran gave her last season, so obviously he knew it would do the trick.

It was already established that he was immune to fire, so it wasn't a huge surprise that it didn't kill him.

 

[hineyrulz]

What exactly do you think she has been training for the last 4 seasons ?

I think her killing the NK fits the narrative perfectly

It's what she has been destined to do from way back in the first season eg what do we tell death ?

The NK is death

It was right in front of our eyes the whole time

Especially if you believe that Syrip and Jaqan are the same person. I mean I faceless man just happened to be in the Dungeons at the same time Ayra was leaving with the the watch??

 

[BennyV]

Why is everyone saying that dragonglass killed the Night King. I thought she stabbed him with the Catspaw dagger, which is valerian steel. At Hardhome, we saw Valerian Steel shatter another White Walker, so we know it’s use. Surely this isn’t a bone of contention...

 

[Timbo]

Perhaps she was already there? She headed off just before the NK and Jon were Dragon fighting in the sky so she had plenty of time.

I think this is the right explanation.

She's been training for years to be an assassin. She got there before he did, she was probably there before Theon died and hid.

 

[Parra]

Cross between Walking Dead and Marvel.

 

[Valheru]

It was a Valyrian Steel dagger that killed him. The same one Bran gave her last season, so obviously he knew it would do the trick.

It was already established that he was immune to fire, so it wasn't a huge surprise that it didn't kill him.

ah ok my bad but is valyrian steel not forged by dragon fire?

 

[adamkungl]

Perhaps she was already there? She headed off just before the NK and Jon were Dragon fighting in the sky so she had plenty of time.

Maybe? Idk?

Like i've defended dumb scenes before when they didn't really have any major consequences.
But to me this felt like a cheap payoff for 4 seasons of buildup. And happening mid-season and leaving Cersei as the final threat, I don't have any confidence in the ending to do anything particularly meaningful, challenging or interesting anymore.

 

[Captain Apollo]

The bloke's invulnerable to dragonfire, but destroyed by a single stab of dragonglass? I thought they were basically imbued with the same magic.

Arya did not stab the Night King with Dragon Glass. She stabbed the Night King with the dagger that had belonged to Little Finger. Said dagger was made of Valyrian Steel, which had been mentioned quite a few times as being one of the things which could kill White Walkers and one of the few things which could kill the Night King.

If memory serves, Bran had told them the Night King could not be killed with Dragon Glass, as he was created using Dragon Glass by the Children of the Forest.

 

[Game_Breaker]

She also snuck up in Jon when it was dead quiet in the godswood surrounded by snow, same spot she killed the NK

It’s not a stretch she can do the same to the NK in the middle of a war, especially when we see her sneak around the wights in the library earlier in the episode

I actually think she was just hiding in the tree and waiting for the right moment
We see her fluid movements with the Valyrian steel dagger when she was fighting Briene last season

 

[Game_Breaker]

ah ok my bad but is valyrian steel not forged by dragon fire?

Valyrian steel has some sort of magic associated with it

 

[Walt Flanigan]

ah ok my bad but is valyrian steel not forged by dragon fire?

It's assumed but not really known. Nobody knows how to make it anymore. It's also thought to have some sort of spells applied to it. That's in the book though.

 

[Captain Apollo]

It's assumed but not really known. Nobody knows how to make it anymore. It's also thought to have some sort of spells applied to it. That's in the book though.

Here the link to the page om the GOT page on Fandom about Valyrian Steel which sums up stuff in the books and the TV show about it - https://gameofthrones.fandom.com/wiki/Valyrian_steel

 

[adamkungl]

Arya did not stab the Night King with Dragon Glass. She stabbed the Night King with the dagger that had belonged to Little Finger. Said dagger was made of Valerian Steel, which had been mentioned quite a few times as being one of the things which could kill White Walkers and one of the few things which could kill the Night King.

If memory serves, Bran had told them the Night King could not be killed with Dragon Glass, as he was created using Dragon Glass by the Children of the Forest.

Valyrian steel, fine. What we "know" about Valyrian steel is that it is apparently forged using dragonfire. Hence having the properties of dragon magic.
The issue isn't so much why VS killed the NK, but why they included the bit where he is completely invulnerable to dragonfire.

Anyway, IMO it's sloppy but not the main issue. As I said above, I can and have numerous times forgiven scenes that require too much explanation and suspension of disbelief. But for the most part they don't really matter, eg. Jaime not drowning in his armour after escaping the Dragons, the 'teleporting' characters between Dragonstone and the far north, etc etc.

My main gripe is that it's a dud payoff for the very long supernatural/3-eye-raven/white walker arc, there was no twist, no deeper meaning, and I doubt there's anywhere interesting to go now.
No one south of Winterfell has learned anything, they'll have their petty war over a chair, and live happily ever after.
Hope I'm wrong, doubt it.

 

[Mr Angry]

Maybe Dany goes full Mad Queen burning everyone and everything with Jamie becoming the Queen Slayer....

 

[Game_Breaker]

they'll have their petty war over a chair, and live happily ever after.
Hope I'm wrong, doubt it.

It’s GoT not Marvel

 

[adamkungl]

It’s GoT not Marvel

Last night was 100% Marvel

 

[Valheru]

On the Arya to kill Cersei rumours, I think people are reading too much in to the eye colour comment. She looked unfazed when she mentioned brown and green eyes i.e. she could think of people with that colour eyes whom she has killed.

For me her story arc is essentially over although I am sure she will play an important role in the final episodes.

Please let Jaimie kill Cersei after she kills Tyrion