Game of Thrones VIII

[Different kind of Rabbit]

I enjoyed the spectacle (okay, when I could see it) of the episode but any time I think more about it, it irks me.

Does it bother anyone else that we ended up with several Valyrian steel weapons in the hand of Brienne, Jaime, Jon Snow etc and not a single one of them came up against a White Walker?

What I would have been happy with (if Arya had to be the one):

People with Valyrian steel weapons fighting off the White Walkers while Jon goes toe to toe with the Night King defending Bran. He fails... on the ground, ready to die, then Arya sneaks in with the final blow. This would have:

a) had Jon's arc/destiny feel fulfilling of going 1v1 vs the big bad
b) gave the valyrian steel weapons some purpose
c) alleviated any issues people had with Arya sneaking past the WW; they'd be fighting
d) still provided the audience with a twist
e) seen no retcon of Arya's destiny

I thought it was actually a rather devious twist having Arya kill the Night King tbh. For most of the series we've been waiting for Jon and the NK to meet and have some big fight, then in the end, Jon is unable to get there and Arya wins the day.

Then when you look back and piece everything together, its rather obvious that she was being set up to be the hero all along and most of us just missed it because we'd been misdirected. We all thought that she would figure prominently but not be the NK slayer or we all thought that she would be the main antagonist in some other showdown.

Personally, I thought that was quite brilliant... You and Adam on the other hand, seem to be upset that you missed all the clues and things haven't turned out the way you thought they would.

 

[Rhino_NQ]

I thought it was actually a rather devious twist having Arya kill the Night King tbh. For most of the series we've been waiting for Jon and the NK to meet and have some big fight, then in the end, Jon is unable to get there and Arya wins the day.

Then when you look back and piece everything together, its rather obvious that she was being set up to be the hero all along and most of us just missed it because we'd been misdirected. We all thought that she would figure prominently but not be the NK slayer or we all thought that she would be the main antagonist in some other showdown.

Personally, I thought that was quite brilliant... You and Adam on the other hand, seem to be upset that you missed all the clues and things haven't turned out the way you thought they would.

If it was completely predictable there would still be moaning and outrage.

 

[adamkungl]

Merkins like you should be banned from watching.

You must be fun at parties Remi

People have been bitching about plot shortcuts and dumb writing engineered to deliver big #epic moments for years and i've as much as anyone justified it and enjoyed the ride.

This time they stretched it too far for me to enjoy. Since we're getting personal, you'd have to be a total simpleton to be satisfied by that nonsense. Keep lapping up shit and calling it lobster, lads

 

[Springs09]

People have been bitching about plot shortcuts and dumb writing engineered to deliver big #epic moments for years and i've as much as anyone justified it and enjoyed the ride.

This time they stretched it too far for me to enjoy. Since we're getting personal, you'd have to be a total simpleton to be satisfied by that nonsense. Keep lapping up shit and calling it lobster, lads

People bitch hard and criticise absolutely everything until it's something they fangirl over - then it's just shut up and enjoy and it and stop being negative.

 

[Walt Flanigan]

I dunno man I'm just still sitting here wondering what the significance of Jaime riding north was. I hope his story isn't f**ked.

IMO it solidifies his arc. Cersei promised she’d help out with the war against the dead so when she told Jaime her real plans it made sense that he didn’t want to be associated with such dishonour. By going North and risking his neck to face the Targs and Starks to help them fight the dead, it goes a long way to repairing his reputation.

 

[Timbo]

IMO it solidifies his arc. Cersei promised she’d help out with the war against the dead so when she told Jaime her real plans it made sense that he didn’t want to be associated with such dishonour. By going North and risking his neck to face the Targs and Starks to help them fight the dead, it goes a long way to repairing his reputation.

I was kind of hoping there was going to be a moment during their strategy scene where Jon admitted that every time he's commanded a large army it's not gone well and that the only truly successful field general that was there was Jaime - hence also giving him a purpose for heading north and adding to his redemption arc.

 

[adamkungl]

For what it's worth

IF there's some reveal or twist that gives more depth to Bran v the Night King face off,
I'll straight up admit I was wrong, and that I got sucked into bitching about a cliffhanger rather than an ending.

I don't really have much hope in the writers, too many times have people looked for greater meaning in TV-only moments and been left wanting.

But ideas like this give me hope. There is allegedly one more hyyuuge GRRM-penned twist to come. Maybe this will be it.

 

[Danish]

I feel like Jon needed to have a major hand in the NKs death; and preferrably have died in the process.

Why?

Because of the massive resurrection plotline, courtesy of Melissandre. Remember that? That whole story arc now seems redundant.

I know Jon had a major hand in gathering the armies in the North which was obviously crucial; but I feel as though his personal story had to end with a confrontation with the Night King.

He didn't even have to get the kill. That could've been GoTs curveball.

Perhaps a heroic self sacrifice to give Arya the opportunity to get the NK kill would have worked.

He could've somehow summoned Drogon in an ode to his Targaryen bloodline which would have satisfied that storyline. And he could have landed Drogon between the NK and Bran then fight nobly and die but in doing so give Arya the time and an opening to kill the NK.

I'm just brainstorming here lol

But I just now feel as though Jon has no business going south. And more than that I feel as though the GoT creators are in danger of pussying out.

Still a great episode though.

Jon was the only reason Arya came back to winterfell. She was riding south to kings landing but came to a crossroads after hearing from Pie that Jon had taken back winterfell.

If Jon wasn’t resurrected, Arya doesn’t go to winterfell and the night king doesn’t get killed.

Resurrection plot line completed.

 

[Vic Mackey]

The episode was pretty epic, would have been amazing to see on the big screen. I’ve wondered if a cinema would have been able to do a package to show each episode this season it would work, I would have gone.

Agree with others who have said it feels a bit of a let down now. The entire show and particularly the last 3 seasons had basically made out NK to be the big enemy. The buildup for this episode was immense, I can’t see myself getting that pumped for another episode.

What’s there to do now? I feel it will be 2 boring build up episodes and then a big finale.

 

[Danish]

The episode was pretty epic, would have been amazing to see on the big screen. I’ve wondered if a cinema would have been able to do a package to show each episode this season it would work, I would have gone.

Agree with others who have said it feels a bit of a let down now. The entire show and particularly the last 3 seasons had basically made out NK to be the big enemy. The buildup for this episode was immense, I can’t see myself getting that pumped for another episode.

What’s there to do now? I feel it will be 2 boring build up episodes and then a big finale.

I definitely don’t want Euron being shoehorned in as some epic enemy. That idiot needs to just get his head crushed by the mountain in the opening 10 mins of the next episode and taken out of the show. A complete imposter of a character that has no rights being in the finale

 

[Apey]

IMO it solidifies his arc. Cersei promised she’d help out with the war against the dead so when she told Jaime her real plans it made sense that he didn’t want to be associated with such dishonour. By going North and risking his neck to face the Targs and Starks to help them fight the dead, it goes a long way to repairing his reputation.

Yeah, I get that. I don't think his impact on the battle, or his mere presence, was enough to redeem himself though really. He wasn't an integral part. We don't even know what his plans are going to be now. I can't wait to see if he will stick with the North or what.

Remember that in the end Jon gave up a Dragon and other men to win Jaime Lannister for the North. That's all he got. I was hoping he'd have more of a role in the 'Great' war than the war with Cersei but oh well.

I was kind of hoping there was going to be a moment during their strategy scene where Jon admitted that every time he's commanded a large army it's not gone well and that the only truly successful field general that was there was Jaime - hence also giving him a purpose for heading north and adding to his redemption arc.

We know Jaime is crippled so maybe expecting him to kill the NK is a bit much (although dropping a dagger from one hand to another is enough) but ultimately I was hoping that he'd have a bigger impact on the battle. He had as much an impact as Samwell Tarly which I found frustrating.

 

[adamkungl]

I think Jaime's arc has to end, one way or another, with Cersei. The Lannister story is about the conflicts between family and power, honour, respect.

It's nice that Jaime redeemed himself by abandoning Cersei and heading North, I don't believe he had any super-crucial role to play and that simply being there fighting for honor is enough.

Bronn's choice is still to come too.

 

[Apey]

 

[Game_Breaker]

I think Jaime's arc has to end, one way or another, with Cersei. The Lannister story is about the conflicts between family and power, honour, respect.

It's nice that Jaime redeemed himself by abandoning Cersei and heading North, I don't believe he had any super-crucial role to play and that simply being there fighting for honor is enough.

Bronn's choice is still to come too.

I like Jamie as field general/strategist
Hopefully they use this side of him against Cersei

I think they will, and they’ll go with the “I know her best” angle, therefore I should be the one commanding the troops against her army

 

[Game_Breaker]

On the issue of themes

How about the theme of prophecies and how everyone f**ks up their interpretation of them

melisandre did that multiple times, believing Stannis was Azor Ahai
Cersei f**king up the prophecy from the witch in the forest from when she was a girl

Jon was the only reason Arya came back to winterfell. She was riding south to kings landing but came to a crossroads after hearing from Pie that Jon had taken back winterfell.

If Jon wasn’t resurrected, Arya doesn’t go to winterfell and the night king doesn’t get killed.

Resurrection plot line completed.

Yes, and if I remember correctly she was on her way to KL to kill Cersei

She abandoned her list so she can reunite with Jon

 

[Apey]

melisandre did that multiple times, believing Stannis was Azor Ahai

Cersei f**king up the prophecy from the witch in the forest from when she was a girl

Not to beat a dead horse or anything, but she was still an avid follower of Stannis when she initially made the 'blue eyes' comment to Arya... that people used as evidence of foreshadowing...

Did Cersei actually f**k it up? I thought it had come true... so far. Daenarys may be the younger prettier one coming for her throne rather than Margaery.

 

[adamkungl]

On the issue of themes

How about the theme of prophecies and how everyone f**ks up their interpretation of them

melisandre did that multiple times, believing Stannis was Azor Ahai
Cersei f**king up the prophecy from the witch in the forest from when she was a girl

Prophecies being twisted up by people obsessed with them is one of the core ideas of the series.

One of the issues with Arya's takedown of NK, if that is indeed the end of the whole magic plotline, is that all the prophecies are seemingly forgotten rather than twisted into an unexpected fulfilment. Except the throwaway line about eye colours.

 

[adamkungl]

Not to beat a dead horse or anything, but she was still an avid follower of Stannis when she initially made the 'blue eyes' comment to Arya... that people used as evidence of foreshadowing...

Did Cersei actually f**k it up? I thought it had come true... so far. Daenarys may be the younger prettier one coming for her throne rather than Margaery.

Cersei's f**k ups trying to avoid the witches predictions are basically what fulfill it - a pretty common fantasy trope. (eg. Voldemort).

 

[Game_Breaker]

Not to beat a dead horse or anything, but she was still an avid follower of Stannis when she initially made the 'blue eyes' comment to Arya... that people used as evidence of foreshadowing...

Did Cersei actually f**k it up? I thought it had come true... so far. Daenarys may be the younger prettier one coming for her throne rather than Margaery.

Cersei’s prophecies all came true so far, but she just interpreted them wrong. Like she thought she was going to marry Rhaegar, she always feels threatened by younger prettier girls, she has always hated Tyrion but Jamie is also her younger brother

As for Melisandre, that’s just more proof of her not interpreting her visions correctly

 

[Game_Breaker]

Prophecies being twisted up by people obsessed with them is one of the core ideas of the series.

One of the issues with Arya's takedown of NK, if that is indeed the end of the whole magic plotline, is that all the prophecies are seemingly forgotten rather than twisted into an unexpected fulfilment. Except the throwaway line about eye colours.

How was it forgotten?

She’s a princess when Jon became King of the North
She was reborn in the house of black and white
The dagger could well be made from the Valyrian steel of nightbringer