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Game of Thrones

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Eddie Lab

Juniors
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2,410
Surprise incest rape, nothing hotter.

Especially with your dead son right there.

NOECI0s.gif


It was a slow episode but these are needed to further story. can't be full speed all the time.
 

Springs

First Grade
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5,682
I don't get the rape scene. I don't know why they want to make Jaime more despicable and Cersei more sympathetic. They did great work with Jaime in season 3 but now he looks like he's the same as season 1.
His whole character arc is supposed to be how he goes from attempted child killer to a decent man, not attempted child killer to kinslayer/rapist.
 

Misanthrope

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I'm unsure of where they were going with it as well. It definitely felt like the theme of the episode was that there were very few good people in Westeros, and this was particularly emphasized by two fan favourites (Clegane and Jaime) doing bad things.

It could be that the producers/writers wanted to remind us that these are not shiny, happy, friendly heroes we're supposed to love just now. They're still villains, regardless of what journeys they have made so far.

I mean, realistically, neither man would just become 'good' by association with a good person, and especially not as quickly as Clegane seemed to have.
 

Ghoulies

Bench
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3,948
The director of the episode has come out and said that the sex was meant to be seen as consensual between Jaime and Cersei. He just seems to have failed horribly at showing it.
 

Misanthrope

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The director of the episode has come out and said that the sex was meant to be seen as consensual between Jaime and Cersei. He just seems to have failed horribly at showing it.

Definitely failed. I mean, I'm well aware that sometimes "no" can mean "yes", but this did not come across that way at all. I kept expecting Cersei to start getting into it, but right up until the cut she was still protesting.
 

God-King Dean

Immortal
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46,614
Sums it up perfectly.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_facto...x_graves_says_the_sex_becomes_consensual.html

Game of Thrones.spent all last season carefully redeeming Jaime Lannister, turning the once villain into something of a hero. Sunday night, director Alex Graves threw that all away by having Jaime rape his sister/lover in front of the body of their recently murdered son. This was not in the books. Yes, Jaime and his sister Cersei do it in front of their child’s corpse in George R.R. Martin’s telling, but the sex, while rough, is consensual.

By turning consensual sex into a rape, the meaning of the scene changes completely. On the page, it serves as a reminder that this ugly, incestuous relationship is a coping mechanism for two very badly damaged people. Turning it into a rape just turns Jaime into a monster, the kind that would rape a woman he claims to love in front of her dead son to punish her for being “hateful.”

Apparently Graves thinks that he did something more interesting and complicated than that. In an interview with Alan Sepinwall, Graves claims the sex “becomes consensual by the end because anything for them ultimately results in a turn-on, especially a power struggle.” This is nonsense.

If Graves intended to depict consensual sex in the end, he completely failed. This wasn’t even one of those terribly clichéd scenes where a man starts raping a woman only to find that she comes around to thinking it’s hot. Cersei is still kicking and protesting when the camera cuts away. It’s as straightforward a rape scene as you’ll get on TV, unless you buy the ridiculous myth that a woman can’t be raped if she’s consented to sex with a man before. (Notably, Sepinwall seems to agree with Graves, describing the scene like this: “Jaime in turn seizes the moment to finally perform the act he's been denied of since the war with the North began, even if he has to get very rough at first to get what he wants.”)


This isn’t to say that rape can’t be depicted on TV. It can. But Graves’ inability to see what he’s put out there compromises Jaime’s character and, frankly, makes a joke of a very serious, very violent act. (Graves calls it a “turn on,” as if “sexy rape” is a thing. It is not.)

Prior to this rape, Jaime was a morally ambiguous character whose bad behavior, while deplorable, at least was motivated in ways that the audience could understand. Now he just comes across as another terrible man who abuses women because he can.

Jamie used to be the kind of person who would kill if he felt he had to, but who deplored sexual violence because it was never necessary. Indeed, he started his path to redemption in the third season by cleverly rescuing Brienne of Tarth, a female knight, from being raped by her captors. Now he’s just a big mess that doesn’t make any sense at all, and the character’s arc may never recover.
 

Misanthrope

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It could be argued that she wasn't protesting to the sex, but to the fact it was beside the corpse of her son.

Not that it redeems Jaime in any way, but makes it somewhat less rapey.

She does protest to the setting in the book, but eventually decides she needs some Kingslayer c**k
 

Wato

Juniors
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1,050
I thought it was poorly done but I think it did represent the growing disconnect between the pair well. Jamie does become quite angry when she rejects him in the first episode of this season and there is a second where she begins to kiss and embrace him in that scene but it's only fleeting. The show on a whole has done a good job with Jamie in revealing his true character to show watchers, I always though Jamie's would be a character that divided show watchers and book readers.
 

Ghoulies

Bench
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Really? I thought the Tywin scene was a highlight (as they usually are) of what was a really good episode.

I guess everyone gets something different from this show.
 

Dutchy

Immortal
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33,887
Really? I thought the Tywin scene was a highlight (as they usually are) of what was a really good episode.

I guess everyone gets something different from this show.

Agreed. Sets up the future relationship with Tommen too. Pretty much the whole "I'm gonna own you bitch." Tyrion alludes to it also.
 

Chook

First Grade
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5,655
When watching or reading period stories it's best to leave your morality in this time. Rape was common place in medieval times, as was incest, murder, extortion, beastiality, cannibalism etc.

Trying to apportion modern morals on medieval stories is an exercise in futility as well as stupidity as the two cannot be reconciled. People are being outraged for outraged sake.

Chook.
 

Zigwaa

Bench
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2,744
Anyone see Styllax from "Plebs" in the crowd at whereverthef**k Danaerys arrived to? Made me laugh.
 
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