Game of Thrones

[Misanthrope]

so.......................theories on who killed Joffrey ?

go

Can those of us who already know play? :sarcasm:

When watching or reading period stories it's best to leave your morality in this time. Rape was common place in medieval times, as was incest, murder, extortion, beastiality, cannibalism etc.

Trying to apportion modern morals on medieval stories is an exercise in futility as well as stupidity as the two cannot be reconciled. People are being outraged for outraged sake.

Chook.

This. Exactly this.

Agreed. Sets up the future relationship with Tommen too. Pretty much the whole "I'm gonna own you bitch." Tyrion alludes to it also.

One of my favourite moments from the episode alongside Tyrion and Pod's painful goodbye and the Tywin/Oberyn interaction.

Charles Dance is the f**king balls.

 

[God-King Dean]

 

[Pete Cash]

When watching or reading period stories it's best to leave your morality in this time. Rape was common place in medieval times, as was incest, murder, extortion, beastiality, cannibalism etc.

Trying to apportion modern morals on medieval stories is an exercise in futility as well as stupidity as the two cannot be reconciled. People are being outraged for outraged sake.

Chook.

It's a book written by a modern man for modern audiences it's not literally historical events. Ole George is pressing buttons in modern readers. So don't be a silly billy. George wanted the audience to consider if it's a bad thing that joff was killed ffs.

Edit

I would post the actual interview where he talked about joff but it contains spoilers. Anyone who is interested I will copy the link in a sec. Possible spoilers. Grrm wants you to view the book with modern sensibilities. Death of the author and all that. You can read the book however the f**k you want but don't pretend the author isn't using your modern sensibilities against you. The reason why Ned dying works is because he takes advantage of common tropes of fiction.

THIS LINK CONTAINS SPOILERS DO NOT CLICK UNLESS YOU HAVE READ THE BOOKS.
Link http://m.rollingstone.com/movies/news/george-r-r-martin-on-who-killed-joffrey-20140414

 

[Zigwaa]

so.......................theories on who killed Joffrey ?

go

No book spoilers please.

Jamie Lannister? He's got history in king slaying and needed something to bring Cersei closer to him.

 

[Zigwaa]

Hahaha! "Furthermore I am a bell end"

 

[Springs]

No book spoilers please.

Jamie Lannister? He's got history in king slaying and needed something to bring Cersei closer to him.

You're not trying very hard. Most of the act is shown at the wedding.

When watching or reading period stories it's best to leave your morality in this time. Rape was common place in medieval times, as was incest, murder, extortion, beastiality, cannibalism etc.

Trying to apportion modern morals on medieval stories is an exercise in futility as well as stupidity as the two cannot be reconciled. People are being outraged for outraged sake.

Right....
Hint: Westeros is not set in medieval times. Another hint: don't pretend you know what the day-to-day lives of most medieval people were like. The penalties for things like incest, homosexuality, bestiality and such was death or something just as bad, saying it was 'common place' is stupid beyond words.
There are more slaves today then at any other time in history. It does not mean slavery is 'common place' nor does it mean slavery is somehow moral.

P.S. The 'outrage' is more about changing character motives from the book, not because of the rape itself.

 

[Chook]

It's a book written by a modern man for modern audiences it's not literally historical events. Ole George is pressing buttons in modern readers. So don't be a silly billy. George wanted the audience to consider if it's a bad thing that joff was killed ffs.

Edit

I would post the actual interview where he talked about joff but it contains spoilers. Anyone who is interested I will copy the link in a sec. Possible spoilers. Grrm wants you to view the book with modern sensibilities. Death of the author and all that. You can read the book however the f**k you want but don't pretend the author isn't using your modern sensibilities against you. The reason why Ned dying works is because he takes advantage of common tropes of fiction.

THIS LINK CONTAINS SPOILERS DO NOT CLICK UNLESS YOU HAVE READ THE BOOKS.
Link http://m.rollingstone.com/movies/news/george-r-r-martin-on-who-killed-joffrey-20140414

Authors cannot determine how audiences view a book just as directors cannot determine how audiences view a film. They can try, but everything that occurs is left in the exclusive domain of the interpretation of the reader/viewer.

Without getting too in depth over this, my post was in relation to the convected outrage over the rape scene, which I believe actually added to the scene rather than dimish it. I'm probably in the minority on that, but there it is, that's my interpretation.

Chook.

 

[Pete Cash]

Well he raped her in the book too but it's a much different context to how it's done on the show.

 

[Chook]

Well he raped her in the book too but it's a much different context to how it's done on the show.

That's very different to how I remember it in the book, as I recall it was consensual between them. Which in my view is far more distrubing than her being raped, as it showed she had little to no feelings about her dead son in favour of trying to make a new one. Where as in the show her being raped showed she had some remorse towards Joffery.

Chook.

 

[Misanthrope]

It started out rape-y, but she eventually consented like every woman in every Korean porno.

 

[Ghoulies]

so.......................theories on who killed Joffrey ?

go

Spoiler: Huge spoilers

It was this guy.

 

[Pete Cash]

It started out rape-y, but she eventually consented like every woman in every Korean porno.

Its told from Jaimes POV and can be considered unreliable but yeah what Mianthrope says. She outright asks him to stop a few times and even hits him while he does the deed but she "gets into it" which is a pretty common GRRM thing (same thing happened with Dany and Drogo)

 

[Springs]

The change to Margaery was so much worse.

Spoiler: spoilers

Her grandmother would never risk her dying. Yet she has no idea who did it. She could have drank from the very same cup! Just dumb.

Also looks like we're getting Brienne journeying around earlier than expected. Oh joy.

 

[Springs]

Its told from Jaimes POV and can be considered unreliable but yeah what Mianthrope says. She outright asks him to stop a few times and even hits him while he does the deed but she "gets into it" which is a pretty common GRRM thing (same thing happened with Dany and Drogo)

Well Drogo purposely didn't do anything until Daenerys said yes so it was a bit different. In the book I felt it was a major part of her falling for him. It's kinda lost in the show as it looks like complete Stockholm Syndrome.

 

[Misanthrope]

I like the way the show did it tbh. Makes it more believable than her just falling for a violent barbarian.

 

[ME SO HORNBY!]

In the book it's different as well because Jaime has only just gotten back.

It could be different in the book as well because it's told from Jaime's POV. Maybe it was slightly rapey but Jaime just didn't see it that way.

Not my idea by the way, just something I read on another forum. Kind of like when Bran sees Cersei and Jaime before being pushed he describes them as "wrestling".

 

[Zigwaa]

You're not trying very hard. Most of the act is shown at the wedding.

Re-watched episode 2 and now know who did it. Only book readers or people who use the hints on here would be able to pick up on the poisoning act.

First watch for non book readers - no chance. Second watch without knowing what to look for - still no chance.

 

[Springs]

Re-watched episode 2 and now know who did it. Only book readers or people who use the hints on here would be able to pick up on the poisoning act.

First watch for non book readers - no chance. Second watch without knowing what to look for - still no chance.

My mate got it on first viewing. Well he had two guesses, but went with the right one.

Spoiler: spoilers

He got it simply because Joffrey drank from the cup, put it down right in front of the Queen of Thorns, then later picked it up again, drank and died. Olenna was realy the only one who could have done it without being seen.

 

[Springs]

It could be different in the book as well because it's told from Jaime's POV. Maybe it was slightly rapey but Jaime just didn't see it that way.

Not my idea by the way, just something I read on another forum. Kind of like when Bran sees Cersei and Jaime before being pushed he describes them as "wrestling".

Well that could be true, but in the books she does consent to it in the end. And he doesn't actually f**k her until she does.
And he doesn't grab her and say 'you're a hateful woman' and so on.

Makes it more believable than her just falling for a violent barbarian

But that's what she did in the show? Except she fell for a violent, raping, inconsiderate barbarian.
In the book he was kind to her at least, and considerate of her feelings towards sex.

 

[Zigwaa]

My mate got it on first viewing. Well he had two guesses, but went with the right one.

Spoiler: spoilers

He got it simply because Joffrey drank from the cup, put it down right in front of the Queen of Thorns, then later picked it up again, drank and died. Olenna was realy the only one who could have done it without being seen.

Spoiler: Joffrey Death Spoiler

I only got it because of the talk of Sansa's necklace, which you see Olenna take a gem, then her walk away and hear a glass "ding" into the wine jug as she walks past Joffrey's table. Olenna and Little Finger must be in cahoots somehow.