General off season footy/sport/current affairs chatter

[sportive cupid]

What do women in the rest of the world have to do with women in Afghanistan?

Rural Afghan women (i.e. nearly all Pashtuns) do not grow crops. I have done foot patrols there and you never see them outside their homes. That's not to say they don't go outside - they are ushered inside when we approach the village because not only are we there to steal their resources and destroy their culture, but we want to rape their women as well. So they tell each other anyway.

I'm not saying they're not oppressed, but rural Pashtuns (i.e. most of them) are extremely ignorant, and just like the men, Pashtun women don't see themselves as individuals separate from their society. Or rather, they don't consider individualism as particularly important when there are more pressing issues like survival.

Pashtun women just want to feed their families and keep them safe. Same as the men. To be honest, I don't really get what the point of your post was. You threw out some vague stats you got from the U.N. and failed to explain how it applies to Afghanistan.

Gender equality has very little to do with individualism .Food production is basic to survival of any group of people.You seem a little scarred by your experiences.

 

[sportive cupid]

Who grow their crops btw?
actually women's role in agriculture has been pretty much hidden in Afghanistan so it's understandable that you would think they weren't involved.

Some of the more useful projects In Afghanistan are the ones which are trying to redress the imbalance of access to the tools of agriculture for women as well as gender imbalances in terms of renumeration for contribution to production.

but of cause they aren't as exciting as the guns and soldiers ones.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Gender equality has very little to do with individualism .

You'll find the entire concept of 'equality' is based on the rights of the individual.

Food production is basic to survival of any group of people.

True but in Afghanistan it's got nothing to do with the women. Given the strict delineation of gender roles, farming isn't seen as a woman's job in Afghanistan.

You seem a little scarred by your experiences.

Not at all. I reckon I love Afghanistan more in hindsight than I actually did while I was there. Looking back it was a pretty cool experience.

I was there with my mates and plenty of guns. Chrissy Sandow would have loved it.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Who grow their crops btw?

All of the other genders besides women.

 

[sportive cupid]

That's simply not so.

 

[Twizzle]

Yeah sarcasm. I even included a smiley so you would get it this time.

I'm pretty much with TheRam.

I was going to respond to each point you made but we are not even on the same page so it would be pretty pointless.

 

[Maroubra Eel]

Footy season can't come quick enough for you merkins.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

actually women's role in agriculture has been pretty much hidden in Afghanistan so it's understandable that you would think they weren't involved.

Obviously they weren't good enough to hide it from you though.

Some of the more useful projects In Afghanistan are the ones which are trying to redress the imbalance of access to the tools of agriculture for women as well as gender imbalances in terms of renumeration for contribution to production.

Are you implying men and women live in different villages over there? I'm pretty sure Afghan families are made up of both men and women, just like they used to be in Australia.

but of cause they aren't as exciting as the guns and soldiers ones.

Without security there is no modernisation, no democracy and no human rights. That's why we have more ADF members over there than people from AusAID.

 

[Poupou Escobar]

I'm pretty much with TheRam.

I was going to respond to each point you made but we are not even on the same page so it would be pretty pointless.

:lol: Nice one.

I was going to reply to your argument but.. ah.. um.. you're not smart enough to understand. :roll:

 

[sportive cupid]

Sorry but I can't see how I imply anything like that.

Beat the drums of war as much as you like. it's just not everyone's opinion.

 

[sportive cupid]

PE ,have you met WYD?

 

[Poupou Escobar]

Sorry but I can't see how I imply anything like that.

Anything like what? At least give us a quote so I know what you're talking about.

Beat the drums of war as much as you like. it's just not everyone's opinion.

It's not a war. Our main role there is to mentor the indigenous security forces in support of their own counterinsurgency operations:

 

[Poupou Escobar]

PE ,have you met WYD?

Should I have? Who is he/she?

 

[Twizzle]

:lol: Nice one.

I was going to reply to your argument but.. ah.. um.. you're not smart enough to understand. :roll:

I didn't say that, I just dont agree with anything you said but thats my prerogative.

Just to appease you I will respond.

 

[Twizzle]

How do you know they haven't been brainwashed though?

They are my sons, I spend plenty of time with them and know them pretty well,

Considering there are only two positions on abortion - anti-life and anti-choice -

wrong, there are 3

you left out the ones that dont give a rats arse

I reckon anyone who strongly supports either position has been 'brainwashed' by one ideology or another. There are plenty out there; and most of them don't like it when somebody believes differently to them.

see above

The fact is, the way modern governments enforce rules and norms through the education and judicial systems is no different to how any society throughout history has 'brainwashed' its members.

garbage, depends what school or education system

obviously the public education system isn't into the brainwashing that teh catholic schools employ

nothing to do with politics, the judicial system or society

However your use of the term 'brainwashing' is both erroneous and dishonest.

no its not, you certainly didn't go to the same school I did or you would not make such a comment

True brainwashing is very different from the way children are socialised into societies, though I understand why you would want to use the term

socialised into societies, you mean like catholics and non catholics ?

you don't like religion and you want to portray it in a negative light.

wrong again, I dont like not being given a choice to choose my own beliefs

In this way you are trying to 'brainwash' others into seeing religion the same way you do.

wrong again, see above

I have nothing against religions as such, its not being given a choice that I despise

Interestingly, the first recorded instance of actual brainwashing was used by the Chinese during the Korean War. As shown by the Communists of the second half of last century, when people are freed from religion they treat other human beings wonderfully. :roll:

The catholic education system was around long before the Korean War

 

[Poupou Escobar]

They are my sons, I spend plenty of time with them and know them pretty well,

Because parents never brainwash their children, right?

wrong, there are 3

you left out the ones that dont give a rats arse

So you agree people can also be conditioned (sorry, brainwashed) to apathy?

garbage, depends what school or education system

obviously the public education system isn't into the brainwashing that teh catholic schools employ

nothing to do with politics, the judicial system or society

All of these institutions reinforce social mores, attitudes and behaviours - the same 'brainwashing' you accuse Catholic schools of doing. I went to both public schools and Catholic schools and the conditioning was exactly the same - attitudes and behaviour were reinforced through the usual reward-and-punishment system.

This is how people are 'brainwashed' into society. Likewise the judicial system - when I was caught shoplifting as a child I was punished and learnt that stealing is wrong even when the victim is a big corporation.

Now I'm the only person I know who pays for software, music and tv shows. Maybe nobody else was ever punished for stealing?

no its not, you certainly didn't go to the same school I did or you would not make such a comment

You've clearly been 'brainwashed' by your experiences to believe that any suggestion of religion is the same as forced conversion. I'm sure this has been reinforced by like-minded people parroting this attitude back to you your entire life.

socialised into societies, you mean like catholics and non catholics ?

Like anybody - there are more divisions in the world than just 'Catholics' and 'others'. The Soviets weren't Catholic and they did a great job 'socialising' people into their society. Secular humanists have done the same thing in the West, which has both freed people and contributed to anomie.

You can't just remove something problematic and call the result 'good', because there will be a vacuum that needs to be filled by something else.

wrong again, I dont like not being given a choice to choose my own beliefs

This is just the point - nobody can make anyone else believe anything. Somebody obviously tried to convince you that a certain ideology was the right one and you obviously haven't adopted it. If anything you've adopted a reactionary ideology against it.

So now you think that because you rejected religion that anybody else who is religious has been brainwashed? We all have free choice. Nobody can force us to think anything we don't want to think. That's why there are religious converts from atheist families and secular schools, just as there are atheists who grew up in religious homes and went to Catholic schools.

wrong again, see above

I have nothing against religions as such, its not being given a choice that I despise


The catholic education system was around long before the Korean War

I went to a Catholic school and I'm not a Catholic. Nobody tried to force it on me and very few of the guys I went to school with even went to church. We even had a Muslim kid (though he used to get bullied for being a little fat wimp).

 

[SDM]

PPE, you should argue with someone of similar intellect. Making fools of geniuss is not very noble.

 

[sportive cupid]

Anything like what? At least give us a quote so I know what you're talking about.



It's not a war. Our main role there is to mentor the indigenous security forces in support of their own counterinsurgency operations:

oh sorry I haven't been on this forum for a while,forgot the protocols.
you assumed I was implying that women and men live separately in Afghanistan.I cant see where I said ,or implied that.I was talking about imbalances which occur within households and communities.

to your point about peace keeping forces.Are you aware of the role that women play in peace keeping throughout the world? if indigenous forces are indeed.to take over from where you professionals leave them ,then it is probably crucial that more than lip service is paid to programs which aim to decrease the gender inequalities in the region. only then can all indigenous people's of the region play their part in securing peace for the region.

Gender equality the world over is not just a warm and fuzzy notion.It's crucial for the economics and security of all peoples




of course the drones aren't usually all that aware of the queen bees plan.

 

[Twizzle]

Because parents never brainwash their children, right?

where did I say that ?

mine weren't brainwashed if thats what you mean

So you agree people can also be conditioned (sorry, brainwashed) to apathy?

didn't say that either

All of these institutions reinforce social mores, attitudes and behaviours - the same 'brainwashing' you accuse Catholic schools of doing. I went to both public schools and Catholic schools and the conditioning was exactly the same - attitudes and behaviour were reinforced through the usual reward-and-punishment system.

This is how people are 'brainwashed' into society. Likewise the judicial system - when I was caught shoplifting as a child I was punished and learnt that stealing is wrong even when the victim is a big corporation.

Now I'm the only person I know who pays for software, music and tv shows. Maybe nobody else was ever punished for stealing?

I think you're confusing an education with being brainwashed.

You've clearly been 'brainwashed' by your experiences to believe that any suggestion of religion is the same as forced conversion. I'm sure this has been reinforced by like-minded people parroting this attitude back to you your entire life.

but you said

Interestingly, the first recorded instance of actual brainwashing was used by the Chinese during the Korean War

sorry, I wasn't in the Krean War

hard to know where you're going with your discussion when you move the goal posts like that

and as for forced conversation, that has nothing to do with being forced to learn something and being graded on it, despite not believing in it

Like anybody - there are more divisions in the world than just 'Catholics' and 'others'. The Soviets weren't Catholic and they did a great job 'socialising' people into their society. Secular humanists have done the same thing in the West, which has both freed people and contributed to anomie.

interesting you mention the soviets, not even they forced Christianity down the throats of their kids as part of their "educashun"

You can't just remove something problematic and call the result 'good', because there will be a vacuum that needs to be filled by something else.

yes I can

imagine if we removed all the problems with religions, we'd probably end up with................................................whats it called again ?

peace

This is just the point - nobody can make anyone else believe anything.

they certainly did my learned friend, the catholic church is fill of them, if your statement was correct, the catholic church would cease to exist

Somebody obviously tried to convince you that a certain ideology was the right one and you obviously haven't adopted it. If anything you've adopted a reactionary ideology against it.

no shit

So now you think that because you rejected religion that anybody else who is religious has been brainwashed?

wrong again, some people choose to adopt their beliefs after a life experience and alot make the decision when they are capable as mature aged people

this is how it should be, sans the brainwashing

I never commented on every body else, just my experiences

We all have free choice.

no we dont, not when you are graded on it

Nobody can force us to think anything we don't want to think. That's why there are religious converts from atheist families and secular schools, just as there are atheists who grew up in religious homes and went to Catholic schools.

see above

I went to a Catholic school and I'm not a Catholic. Nobody tried to force it on me and very few of the guys I went to school with even went to church. We even had a Muslim kid (though he used to get bullied for being a little fat wimp).

you went to a catholic school and no one tried to force it on you ?

pull the other one

 

[Poupou Escobar]

PPE, you should argue with someone of similar intellect. Making fools of geniuss is not very noble.

They make me feel sad.