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Gold Coast Bears/Nth Sydney/Gosford

Stormwarrior82

Juniors
Messages
1,036
We disagree. The wrong decisions were made in the superleague fiasco. Already two clubs were re entered because of the mistakes . Clubs, particularly well known foundarion clubs are treasures and should be respected. Just like they are doing in the AFL in Melbourne. These clubs are there for the code abd its credibility . Profit making even though desirable us a bonus m it's a sport with generational and cultural ties. Money doesn't buy that yet you will lose money if you lose that !

100 yr old foundation clubs are treasures and absolutely should be respected. Over 90 to 100 yrs with all that history and supposed support and they couldn’t come up with rich backers or at least find $5mil. If they haven’t come up with a way to make money in 100 yrs what hope do they really have?

The afl really looked after Fitzroy and south Melbourne!!
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,960
Lol. Rest my case!. So it was a numbers balance thing!? You are a lunatic! Goodnight.

Nope it was a court ordered thing, a court ordered thing that was quickly overturned on appeal and never should have happened...

But you do what you always do and don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.
 

Stormwarrior82

Juniors
Messages
1,036
No they not ! The Roosters have neglected their own area and need to develop it. The North Sydney Bears have a triple advantage to offer; the influential North Sydney business district, North Sydney fans (in the area and Australia wide) and a familiarity with the area already to the extent BEARS words are on the very handy stadium seats at Gosford which if done well will help have the Central Coast people embrace the club as well.

Ok so firstly roosters just need to spray paint the stadium seating- easy done.
Secondly roosters have neglected there area just as much as the bears have.
And Thirdly, there fans?? You know roosters have fans and I wouldnt class you as one in all honesty.
And yes I give you this, north Sydney’s business center is a fair bit better than bondi’s business center. Maybe 20 yrs ago they should of ask for some $$ from them?
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
Don't see what that's got to do with anything.



There's already a club well placed to cover it, it called Manly, not that most business care about having the club that they sponsor representing where their HQ is based anyway...



You massively overestimate the number of Bears fans, you massively overestimate their spread around the country, and you massively overestimate the number that would be willing to come back and support the Bears or support them if they are based on the CC.



That was ripped out years, and years ago, probably well over a decade ago, see for yourself-
central-coast-stadium-in-gosford.jpg

Amazingly dumb and inaccurate response! You only have to look at a recent Aleague soccer game on tv and the BEARS words are their on the seats for all to see! Your ignorance of locality and cultural relevance shows how out of touch you are. You have repeatedly misconstrued facts like simple mathematics numbers and you purport to be an informed contributor? For a start you haven't even apologized for key ommissions in population figure calculations. A blatant misrepresentation of fact in the context of a discourse.
 
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Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
100 yr old foundation clubs are treasures and absolutely should be respected. Over 90 to 100 yrs with all that history and supposed support and they couldn’t come up with rich backers or at least find $5mil. If they haven’t come up with a way to make money in 100 yrs what hope do they really have?

The afl really looked after Fitzroy and south Melbourne!!

Lol. South Melbourne have transformed as the Swans and are still referred to as the Bloods in Melbourne! Footscray and Fitzroy merged to become the Western Bulldogs ( very unpopular franchise till a recent grand final win occured!) Their has been significant rugby league growth in those western districts prior to that timely grand final win!?
 
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Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
Nope it was a court ordered thing, a court ordered thing that was quickly overturned on appeal and never should have happened...

But you do what you always do and don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.

It happened you idiot! You are denying fact! No matter how you twist things the NRL welcomed South Sydney and their millions of fans around Australia back! And the Gold Coast was a must do strategic correction for a code under attack!
 
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Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
Ok so firstly roosters just need to spray paint the stadium seating- easy done.
Secondly roosters have neglected there area just as much as the bears have.
And Thirdly, there fans?? You know roosters have fans and I wouldnt class you as one in all honesty.
And yes I give you this, north Sydney’s business center is a fair bit better than bondi’s business center. Maybe 20 yrs ago they should of ask for some $$ from them?

Lol. At least you are getting some of this! The business district hasn't dissappeared nor has the BEARS yet?!
 

Stormwarrior82

Juniors
Messages
1,036
Lol. South Melbourne have transformed as the Swans and are still referred to as the Bloods in Melbourne! Footscray and Fitzroy merged to become the Western Bulldogs ( very unpopular franchise till a recent grand final win occured!) Their has been significant rugby league growth in those western districts prior to that timely grand final win!?

You use the afl decisions in examples but only see them in rose coloured glasses. First of all Fitzroy left Victoria and basically forced to merged with the lions. Seems nice of the afl to do that to a foundation club. I’m also sure south Melbourne’s fans would of like being relocated to Sydney? Hardly a code that looks after there foundation clubs like you say.

You talk about south Melbourne like it was successful? Like it makes your point? Substitute south Melbourne and the bears and then Sydney with Adelaide and you will have a successful relocation of the foundation club. Engage there north Sydney businesses:/locals and the fresh new adelaide population and juniors and maybe they to could be successful like the swans.
 

The Great Dane

First Grade
Messages
7,960
Amazingly dumb and inaccurate response! You only have to look at a recent Aleague soccer game on tv and the BEARS words are their on the seats for all to see! Your ignorance of locality and cultural relevance shows how out of touch you are. You have repeatedly misconstrued facts like simple mathematics numbers and you purport to be an informed contributor?

I literally gave you a photo of the stands...

The seats are grey now, they ripped out the bears seats years and years ago, probably cause it's a bit weird to have the name of a club that doesn't play there emblazoned in the seats of your stadium and they realise that the Bears are never coming...

For a start you haven't even apologized for key ommissions in population figure calculations. A blatant misrepresentation of fact in the context of a discourse.

LOL what!

I'm not the one that arbitrarily moved city borders and merged a bunch of cities together and still got my numbers wrong!
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
You use the afl decisions in examples but only see them in rose coloured glasses. First of all Fitzroy left Victoria and basically forced to merged with the lions. Seems nice of the afl to do that to a foundation club. I’m also sure south Melbourne’s fans would of like being relocated to Sydney? Hardly a code that looks after there foundation clubs like you say.

You talk about south Melbourne like it was successful? Like it makes your point? Substitute south Melbourne and the bears and then Sydney with Adelaide and you will have a successful relocation of the foundation club. Engage there north Sydney businesses:/locals and the fresh new adelaide population and juniors and maybe they to could be successful like the swans.

You idiot that Bloods/Swans relication only bore fruit when rugby league decided to carve up the Sydney clubs! Gee your dumb. . I concede I got Fitzroy wring although I think the Western Bulldogs was aimed to embrace the dissaffected Fitzroy fans in Melbourne. By the you guys still cant do maths. Melbourne and surrounds is at least a million below Sydney and surrounds and you are still advocating taking away clubs from 3 NSW Cities? One of them Australias biggest! No doubt you failed commerce, history, society&culture and maths! I'll throw in geographical common sense as well!
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
I literally gave you a photo of the stands...

The seats are grey now, they ripped out the bears seats years and years ago, probably cause it's a bit weird to have the name of a club that doesn't play there emblazoned in the seats of your stadium and they realise that the Bears are never coming...



LOL what!

I'm not the one that arbitrarily moved city borders and merged a bunch of cities together and still got my numbers wrong!

You had plenty of time to figure out I had included cities that are well and truelly part of this scenario!? Both the areas of Illawarra and Central Coast have well over 300000 each in population along with Sydney approaching 5400000. Melbourne and Geelong have about 5200000 combined. And I'll chip you on another mistake you have made. You incorrectly asserted that I figured 1million West Magpies fans in Oz. If you care to read properly the figure is 150000. And you went on your ridicule cheap shot tyrade without foundation. I have provided you with mathematical figures supporting the maintenence and reentering of a further NRL club for Sydney and surrounds and you keep ignoring the logic involved. The game is way good enough to sustain at least 10 NRL clubs in the 3 cities that are in this discourse. I note you conveniently avoid the discussion of three cities and just retort to the one. You sly dog! And the BEARS wording is still legible (definitely on the eastern concourse stand side) at Gosford stadium! If you look at the colour seating arrangement you can plainly identify BEARS repeatedly right across that side.
 
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taipan

Referee
Messages
22,500
By that point the plan had been fundamentally changed.

It went from being a News backed comp run by News and the ARL to a hostile takeover of the ARL within that time frame, and those are two very different things...

So again do you even know the original plan for SL, or only what ended up happening?



Yes they did, but the public didn't 'answer' to the original plan, they never got the opportunity to, it never came into reality, the ARL and Sydney clubs wouldn't even hear it out or negotiate with News and the SL clubs about it.

Also I find it hilarious that you think everyone was happy with the expansion! They were happy with it alright, until it started effecting them, then they weren't so happy and started pushing to have the expansion clubs run into the ground and their players split up between their clubs, which is what was happening and is what ultimately ended up happening to the Raiders, every one of the major problems that the Raiders saw at time that pushed them to join SL are still problems today...



That's true, if the Knights had joined like was planned then it was game over, and considering that the Knights were solidly SL (helped organise it early on with the Broncos and Raiders) until Ribot lost a day signing the Broncos and had to push back signing the Knights players giving the ARL the chance to swoop in and sign the Chief, at which point the team was basically destined to sign with the ARL and the Knights jumped ship back to the ARL following their players.

If the Knights signed it would have been game over, SL would have had everything outside of Sydney except the Crushers, Chargers, and Illawarra, and they would have had a fair chunk of Sydney as well, at that point the ARL would have been surrounded and would have lost their majority market share in every major RL market in the country...



It was planned for some time in the future, but nothing had actually been done about it by the time that SL came around.

Adelaide on the other hand was well progressed, and the 'Aces' were preparing to join sometime in the late 90s, but the ARL had already f##ked them too by demanding that the pay for travel, banning the clubs from starting their own merchandising schemes, saddling them with extra insurance costs, etc, all the crap that unfairly effected the out of town clubs that was sending them broke, that's why the core of the Aces jumped ship and became the Rams when News gave them a better offer, an offer where they actually had a hope of surviving past their 10th birthday...



I did mention Kerry Parker, and no he didn't own the TV rights to all RL content, he owned the rights to the NSWRL/ARL competition and if the ARL had agreed to News' original plan then there would have been f##k all he could have done to stop them, as the ARL competition would have continued and his contract with the ARL wouldn't have been breached, there'd just be a new bigger competition in town that overshadowed the one that he had the broadcasting rights too.

The plan had been changed as a matter of necessity.Not enough quality players ,as the ARL had a decent share.
Of course things changed the ARL and Packer didn't want a bar of it,ARL being contracted to Nine,and Packer paying a king's ransom to have it.Neither were going to lie down for News and warm heartedly think of England and charity.
The competition included Broncos and the new entrants Cowboys/Reds/Warriors.all part of the TV deal.
I'm not even going to respond to your original plan comment.It (the 14 team)was hardly a secret .Books written on the subject matter.Thus I call BS .The Tele scribes were out in full force praising the concept.,and they continued to do so when the Court case was won by News.

And to this very day,I see Rebecca Wilson the marketing face of SL,with a huge smile on her face when News won the final court battle;e,enabling them to play in 97.

Whatever the public knew beforehand and neither you or I know the numbers,and no doubt many had not a clue, the point was and remains the fact , the backlash from the public in the media, talkback,club fans, the drop off in SL crowds,TV ratings and indeed ARL crowds then, was a big warning to both warring parties.Keep this up and you are stuffed.

The fans could not handle the situation in SL with 10 teams, and the reaction at the Sharks' Leagues club, which you obviously did not attend,as relocation and or teams combining was mentioned in passing.
It was a case then many fans did not want a bar of News Ltd intrusion, and Ribot for quite a few was the devll incarnate.The Shark's board had already decided to go to SL for survival.


"Everyone happy with expansion" let me clarify ,people who are expansionists like moi and no doubt others were happy with the likes of Perth/Townsville/NZ/Crushers inclusion.Why? A 2nd Brisbane team:Needed.Perth": needed NZ:RL was going nowhere ATT. Cowboys:Heartland.
Yes some of the old traditionalists were agin it ,where will we get the players?My club is financially strung ,why use money to expand?
In fact it was Arthurson who was working on expansion for only 2 teams, but according to Masters,the bids were so good, what the heck, let's include the lot.

I'm not a Telecrap fan, but the Adelaide Aces was mentioned not only in that rag, but in RL Week.From memory the Dragons drew some decent crowds there.
Don't bang on about the ARL f*cking the Aces.That same mob were well on the way to pushing the Sharks interstate ,hence Got committing to SL.Which in retrospect saved the club, to get where it is today.

What makes up the overwhelming majority of ARL income ,the TV rights from ch9 ATT.Thats where the action and fan focus was.

If KP had not the money or inclination ,it would have been a lay down for News.News was used to getting its way on many issues, and still does.Their commercial arrogance is legendary.Rupert has openly admitted SL cost his company much more than anticipated, despite his Pay TV win.
The fact Packer had sent an emissary to South Africa to enter into discussion to start a Rugby World Series was also worrying.Not long after union became overtly;y professional.

Didn't Perth pay for travel and accommodation costs ,under the SL banner, also?

You can argue to and fro ,til you are back and blue, but Arthurson and Co were there to protect the existing comp and the TV contract.Some no doubt consider it selfish and anti expansionary by not reducing team numbers, but both Arko and Quayle were former 1st grade players and fans the game.They wanted to ensure fans of the existing clubs were if possible not lost as a result of rationalisation or relocation.Certainly in the short term.No doubt long term expansion to other areas and rationalisation was in their minds.

I am and remain ,pro expansion,but with the retention of all financially viable and sustainable current NRL clubs.I suggest many who live outside Sydney,dont; share that view.Knowing full well the chances of their clubs being relocated or joint ventured are next to zero.
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
The plan had been changed as a matter of necessity.Not enough quality players ,as the ARL had a decent share.
Of course things changed the ARL and Packer didn't want a bar of it,ARL being contracted to Nine,and Packer paying a king's ransom to have it.Neither were going to lie down for News and warm heartedly think of England and charity.
The competition included Broncos and the new entrants Cowboys/Reds/Warriors.all part of the TV deal.
I'm not even going to respond to your original plan comment.It (the 14 team)was hardly a secret .Books written on the subject matter.Thus I call BS .The Tele scribes were out in full force praising the concept.,and they continued to do so when the Court case was won by News.

And to this very day,I see Rebecca Wilson the marketing face of SL,with a huge smile on her face when News won the final court battle;e,enabling them to play in 97.

Whatever the public knew beforehand and neither you or I know the numbers,and no doubt many had not a clue, the point was and remains the fact , the backlash from the public in the media, talkback,club fans, the drop off in SL crowds,TV ratings and indeed ARL crowds then, was a big warning to both warring parties.Keep this up and you are stuffed.

The fans could not handle the situation in SL with 10 teams, and the reaction at the Sharks' Leagues club, which you obviously did not attend,as relocation and or teams combining was mentioned in passing.
It was a case then many fans did not want a bar of News Ltd intrusion, and Ribot for quite a few was the devll incarnate.The Shark's board had already decided to go to SL for survival.


"Everyone happy with expansion" let me clarify ,people who are expansionists like moi and no doubt others were happy with the likes of Perth/Townsville/NZ/Crushers inclusion.Why? A 2nd Brisbane team:Needed.Perth": needed NZ:RL was going nowhere ATT. Cowboys:Heartland.
Yes some of the old traditionalists were agin it ,where will we get the players?My club is financially strung ,why use money to expand?
In fact it was Arthurson who was working on expansion for only 2 teams, but according to Masters,the bids were so good, what the heck, let's include the lot.

I'm not a Telecrap fan, but the Adelaide Aces was mentioned not only in that rag, but in RL Week.From memory the Dragons drew some decent crowds there.
Don't bang on about the ARL f*cking the Aces.That same mob were well on the way to pushing the Sharks interstate ,hence Got committing to SL.Which in retrospect saved the club, to get where it is today.

What makes up the overwhelming majority of ARL income ,the TV rights from ch9 ATT.Thats where the action and fan focus was.

If KP had not the money or inclination ,it would have been a lay down for News.News was used to getting its way on many issues, and still does.Their commercial arrogance is legendary.Rupert has openly admitted SL cost his company much more than anticipated, despite his Pay TV win.
The fact Packer had sent an emissary to South Africa to enter into discussion to start a Rugby World Series was also worrying.Not long after union became overtly;y professional.

Didn't Perth pay for travel and accommodation costs ,under the SL banner, also?

You can argue to and fro ,til you are back and blue, but Arthurson and Co were there to protect the existing comp and the TV contract.Some no doubt consider it selfish and anti expansionary by not reducing team numbers, but both Arko and Quayle were former 1st grade players and fans the game.They wanted to ensure fans of the existing clubs were if possible not lost as a result of rationalisation or relocation.Certainly in the short term.No doubt long term expansion to other areas and rationalisation was in their minds.

I am and remain ,pro expansion,but with the retention of all financially viable and sustainable current NRL clubs.I suggest many who live outside Sydney,dont; share that view.Knowing full well the chances of their clubs being relocated or joint ventured are next to zero.

Taipan. You will find that many people outside of Sydney still support Sydney based clubs. I do! And so do many others.
 

Stormwarrior82

Juniors
Messages
1,036
You idiot that Bloods/Swans relication only bore fruit when rugby league decided to carve up the Sydney clubs! Gee your dumb. . I concede I got Fitzroy wring although I think the Western Bulldogs was aimed to embrace the dissaffected Fitzroy fans in Melbourne. By the you guys still cant do maths. Melbourne and surrounds is at least a million below Sydney and surrounds and you are still advocating taking away clubs from 3 NSW Cities? One of them Australias biggest! No doubt you failed commerce, history, society&culture and maths! I'll throw in geographical common sense as well!

You resort to name calling because you stuffed up. Calling me a idiot and dumb while outright rewriting Nrl history as well as conceding you got Fitzroys history wrong. Way to go.

The swans moved to Sydney in 1982. The mergers and relocations and carving up as you say happen 15 yrs later? Not great at history are you?

What’s this “you guys can’t do maths?” Trying to change the subject? I’ve never argued with you about the population issue.

But since you asked, about this 3 cities crap. The only person that seems to be talking about taking a Nrl club away from the “3 cities” is you!! Use whatever stats/figures you want but the reality is Sydney clubs are horrible on a number of levels at increasing player numbers, financial support, fan engagement and membership levels. Putting another Sydney club that failed 20yrs ago and hasn’t seemed to achieve much since back into the Nrl is hardly a riveting proposition.
 

taipan

Referee
Messages
22,500
No need to keep them in Sydney then, you make a good argument for relocation!

Who woulda thought,you'd give that response.Is the sky blue?
Well certainly include those closer to civilisation like Adelaide,Brisbane 2,2nd NZ,Ipswich,should just about do it.WA economy now last on the list re growth.Perhaps inclusion in a SthjAfrican rl comp.
 

Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
No need to keep them in Sydney then, you make a good argument for relocation!

Missed the point again. These are fans that have support for these Sydney clubs due to them being in Sydney and being what they are! Don't know how you come up come with your garbage comments but you do?!
 
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Stallion

First Grade
Messages
7,467
You resort to name calling because you stuffed up. Calling me a idiot and dumb while outright rewriting Nrl history as well as conceding you got Fitzroys history wrong. Way to go.

The swans moved to Sydney in 1982. The mergers and relocations and carving up as you say happen 15 yrs later? Not great at history are you?

What’s this “you guys can’t do maths?” Trying to change the subject? I’ve never argued with you about the population issue.

But since you asked, about this 3 cities crap. The only person that seems to be talking about taking a Nrl club away from the “3 cities” is you!! Use whatever stats/figures you want but the reality is Sydney clubs are horrible on a number of levels at increasing player numbers, financial support, fan engagement and membership levels. Putting another Sydney club that failed 20yrs ago and hasn’t seemed to achieve much since back into the Nrl is hardly a riveting proposition.

How dumb are you! ? The gain into the Sydney sports market was pronounced when the split and lack of confidence occured in the NRL. ! And the three cities must hurt your implosion logic as that is exactly what is involved. Not one NSW city but three! I'm sure I might have to qualify everything I say for you implosion dodos! You deserve the name calling. With the crap and time wasting you are creating! Calling a spade a spade mate!
 
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Hello, I'm The Doctor

First Grade
Messages
9,124
Hang on Stallion....

If junior footy is suffering in North Sydney, doesnt this prove that the Bears should NOT be allowed back into the comp?

If they are so bad at developing the game, why cement them in the area by bringing them into the NRL. Why not kill them off and bring in a group that can actually promote junior participation?
 

Perth Red

Post Whore
Messages
70,104
Missed the point again. These are fans that have support for these Sydney clubs due to them being in Sydney and being what they are! Don't know how you come up come with your garbage comments but you do?!

Then are fans who support them because they like the jersey and dont care where they play!
 

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