Gold Coast Bears/Nth Sydney/Gosford

[Stallion]

I agree with both of those things and you have issue with me...

I have no interest in killing off any NRL clubs and I want to expand, but of course you'd know that if you actually understood what your 'opponents' position is or even bothered to inquire what they actually think, but you think that cause you've viewed a pixel that you know what the whole picture is of. . .

The question was to stormwarrior but I don't mind the intrusion. As long as you are not looking to implode top flight rugbyleague clubs in greater Sydney and support expansion with additional clubs in new or underused established rugby league areas we are good.

 

[Stormwarrior82]

? So are you not trying to reduce Sydney's NRL clubs? And supporting additional expansion area clubs? If so we have no issue!

The problem is, at no point have I said remove any current Sydney clubs. I’ve said that multiple times. Where you go wrong is, you come up with blanket crap statements like “implosion logic” when in fact we are arguing the exact opposite.

The real issue is that we disagree on the order that expansion clubs should be introduced. I feel it should be brisbane2/Perth then cq/adelaide/png/nz2 then maybe bears. You feel it should be the bears/cc then everyone else which I completely disagree with and have tried to change your opinion for a multitude of logical reasons.

Maybe after 5yrs of Sydney clubs having a good crack at engaging there fan base and the roosters engage central coast you’ll realize the cc is lost to the bears and your opinion will finally change. But you as a bears supporter with a rooster Jersey I not sure it will.

 

[Stallion]

The problem is, at no point have I said remove any current Sydney clubs. I’ve said that multiple times. Where you go wrong is, you come up with blanket crap statements like “implosion logic” when in fact we are arguing the exact opposite.

The real issue is that we disagree on the order that expansion clubs should be introduced. I feel it should be brisbane2/Perth then cq/adelaide/png/nz2 then maybe bears. You feel it should be the bears/cc then everyone else which I completely disagree with and have tried to change your opinion for a multitude of logical reasons.

Maybe after 5yrs of Sydney clubs having a good crack at engaging there fan base and the roosters engage central coast you’ll realize the cc is lost to the bears and your opinion will finally change. But you as a bears supporter with a rooster Jersey I not sure it will.

So thats the basis for our angst! Well its not that bad. We agree on Brisbane and West Coast so thats something. I still believe that North Sydney Bears can be a useful re addition and you don't . That's fine. At least we are not carving up the Sydney RL market .

 

[The Great Dane]

So thats the basis for our angst! Well its not that bad. We agree on Brisbane and West Coast so thats something. I still believe that North Sydney Bears can be a useful re addition and you don't . That's fine. At least we are not carving up the Sydney RL market .

No the basis of your angst is that he can reasonably rationalise his position and you can't!

He can explain in a reasonable and rational way why another Brisbane club and Perth should be the next two cabs off the rank and why the CC should be way, way down the line.

You can't rationally explain why the CC Bears should even come into the competition at all let alone why they should be the next club into an expanded NRL!

You can't give a rational reason why the NRL should pass up all the money that another club in Brisbane and a club in Perth would bring in from the TV rights, added sponsorship value, access to new markets in the case of Perth, etc, in favour of placing a club into a market that couldn't possibly support it unless it leans on the Sydney market that is already massively over saturated.
A CC club would add nothing to the TV rights value, it'd add nothing to the value of sponsorships, the NRL wouldn't cracking into a new market, it'd further compound the problems that the NRL is having in Sydney, etc, etc, etc.

Hell you wont even bother to actually respond to any of the points I made in this post so I don't know why I bothered.

 

[Perth Red]

No the basis of your angst is that he can reasonably rationalise his position and you can't!

He can explain in a reasonable and rational way why another Brisbane club and Perth should be the next two cabs off the rank and why the CC should be way, way down the line.

You can't rationally explain why the CC Bears should even come into the competition at all let alone why they should be the next club into an expanded NRL!

You can't give a rational reason why the NRL should pass up all the money that another club in Brisbane and a club in Perth would bring in from the TV rights, added sponsorship value, access to new markets in the case of Perth, etc, in favour of placing a club into a market that couldn't possibly support it unless it leans on the Sydney market that is already massively over saturated.
A CC club would add nothing to the TV rights value, it'd add nothing to the value of sponsorships, the NRL wouldn't cracking into a new market, it'd further compound the problems that the NRL is having in Sydney, etc, etc, etc.

Hell you wont even bother to actually respond to any of the points I made in this post so I don't know why I bothered.

But but but what about the millions of bears fans! Don’t forget tradition. Won’t somebody think of the poor Sydney fans?

 

[T to the T]

Perth Red, stop deathriding Sydney sides. We all want a Perth team in the NRL, but I don't see why a Central Coast Bears team can't come in after Perth, Brisbane 2, and NZ 2.

 

[Stallion]

No the basis of your angst is that he can reasonably rationalise his position and you can't!

He can explain in a reasonable and rational way why another Brisbane club and Perth should be the next two cabs off the rank and why the CC should be way, way down the line.

You can't rationally explain why the CC Bears should even come into the competition at all let alone why they should be the next club into an expanded NRL!

You can't give a rational reason why the NRL should pass up all the money that another club in Brisbane and a club in Perth would bring in from the TV rights, added sponsorship value, access to new markets in the case of Perth, etc, in favour of placing a club into a market that couldn't possibly support it unless it leans on the Sydney market that is already massively over saturated.
A CC club would add nothing to the TV rights value, it'd add nothing to the value of sponsorships, the NRL wouldn't cracking into a new market, it'd further compound the problems that the NRL is having in Sydney, etc, etc, etc.

Hell you wont even bother to actually respond to any of the points I made in this post so I don't know why I bothered.

On the contrary the CC Bears would add significant revenues to the NRL. ARE YOU AWARE THAT THE LOCAL DERBIES ALONE would be full houses both in Gosford and Newcastle and Brookvale? No you cant see that! I'm sure the Bears one or twice guest game at the iconic North Sydney oval would see a full house as well? The North Sydney business district would get on board the Bears as well! Your blinkered assessment shows just how little you understand the importance of locality and rivalry which are major elements of this most attractive competition. These elements make more money than you have unwittingly chosen to ignore. I and others can see the merits of reintroducing a well known brand in these highly populated 'two' areas that have received token like overtures and little else in regular top flight rugby league for decades.

 

[Stormwarrior82]

On the contrary the CC Bears would add significant revenues to the NRL. ARE YOU AWARE THAT THE LOCAL DERBIES ALONE would be full houses both in Gosford and Newcastle and Brookvale? No you cant see that! I'm sure the Bears one or twice guest game at the iconic North Sydney oval would see a full house as well? The North Sydney business district would get on board the Bears as well! Your blinkered assessment shows just how little you understand the importance of locality and rivalry which are major elements of this most attractive competition. These elements make more money than you have unwittingly chosen to ignore. I and others can see the merits of reintroducing a well known brand in these highly populated 'two' areas that have received token like overtures and little else in regular top flight rugby league for decades.

You say it would add significant revenue to the Nrl and your first example does everything but. You know increasing crowds at Nrl fixtures goes into the pockets of the clubs not the Nrl. Now that is good and all but over a full season it might add at most $500k. The other thing is, aren’t we as a code moving away from oval grounds. Would it not need a massive redevelopment to make it rectangle? And the ground itself is ridiculous hard and cricket gets played on it as well. After spending $2.5bil on stadiums I’m not sure there is much $$ left. All this hardly helps Nrls bottom line.

Now the only thing that I will give you is the fact of the business district in north Sydney. Now if this business district does have sponsorship value I’m sure the lure of shiny new stadiums compared to historic NS oval will be enough for any one of the 9 Nrl clubs in Sydney to latch onto.

Nothing you have written helps the Nrls finances bar maybe a potential sponsor. Hardly significant revenue as you suggest.

Brisbane2, Perth, png, adelaide would all add more potential juniors, more tv deal revenue, untapped financial cities, extra time slots and lastly a larger footprint around Australia. A truely national comp which is more national that the afl would help sway the massive Australian companies invest in us over afl. Maybe airline companies and others will look at us then. That’s just he truth.

 

[jim_57]

Perth Red, stop deathriding Sydney sides. We all want a Perth team in the NRL, but I don't see why a Central Coast Bears team can't come in after Perth, Brisbane 2, and NZ 2.

A 6:6 split or even 8:4 Sydney:Central Coast would be plenty for a team to adopt the area, like Dragons in Wollongong. A new team is unecessary and way down the line of priorities.

After the 3 you list I'd be looking at Adelaide and even Brisbane &NZ 3 and even a way to have a PNG team if possible. All before Central Coast, even if a team doesn't make the area their own before then.

 

[King hit]

PNG will never have a team. Wish people would just let that go.

 

[The Great Dane]

On the contrary the CC Bears would add significant revenues to the NRL. ARE YOU AWARE THAT THE LOCAL DERBIES ALONE would be full houses both in Gosford and Newcastle and Brookvale? No you cant see that! I'm sure the Bears one or twice guest game at the iconic North Sydney oval would see a full house as well? The North Sydney business district would get on board the Bears as well! Your blinkered assessment shows just how little you understand the importance of locality and rivalry which are major elements of this most attractive competition. These elements make more money than you have unwittingly chosen to ignore. I and others can see the merits of reintroducing a well known brand in these highly populated 'two' areas that have received token like overtures and little else in regular top flight rugby league for decades.

See told ya you wouldn't even bother responding to any of the points I made!

Here are the most applicable points in response to your post that you have ignored-

You can't give a rational reason why the NRL should pass up all the money that another club in Brisbane and a club in Perth would bring in from the TV rights, added sponsorship value, access to new markets in the case of Perth, etc.

A CC club would add nothing to the TV rights value, it'd add nothing to the value of sponsorships, the NRL wouldn't be cracking into a new market, it'd further compound the problems that the NRL is having in Sydney, etc, etc, etc.

Any of the bold is more valuable to the comp by it's self then what you've stated!

Frankly any of the businesses in the NS business district that would be interested in sponsoring an NRL club or supporting them in some other way are already doing so.

Manly should be spreading their influence over NS anyway, and the fact that they haven't been and aren't shows that they are run by idiots and need the NRL to come in and set them right. So if we set Manly up right we don't need the Bears to get Northern Sydney and we have another Sydney club that's well placed going forward into the future.

We also literally have 10 clubs perfectly placed to cover the CC, but currently the Roosters are best placed, so we work with the Roosters over time to cement themselves into the CC, ending with either them being part time in the CC with a 6/6 split of games or even a full relocation and hey presto we have the CC totally covered for the foreseeable future and also have another Sydney club well placed for the future also.

We can get all the benefits from NS and the CC that you are spruiking without adding the Bears, and adding the Bears is going to cause more problems then it fixes when rearranging what we already have to cover the CC and NS fixes a lot of those problems and leaves another spot in the comp open for another club to enter from a new market!

Letting a club based on the CC with or without the NS market, is just simply a bad idea, a very bad idea, rationalising the clubs in Sydney and using what we've already got to it's full potential is a much better way of doing it.

 

[Stallion]

See told ya you wouldn't even bother responding to any of the points I made!

Here are the most applicable points in response to your post that you have ignored-



Any of the bold is more valuable to the comp by it's self then what you've stated!

Frankly any of the businesses in the NS business district that would be interested in sponsoring an NRL club or supporting them in some other way are already doing so.

Manly should be spreading their influence over NS anyway, and the fact that they haven't been and aren't shows that they are run by idiots and need the NRL to come in and set them right. So if we set Manly up right we don't need the Bears to get Northern Sydney and we have another Sydney club that's well placed going forward into the future.

We also literally have 10 clubs perfectly placed to cover the CC, but currently the Roosters are best placed, so we work with the Roosters over time to cement themselves into the CC, ending with either them being part time in the CC with a 6/6 split of games or even a full relocation and hey presto we have the CC totally covered for the foreseeable future and also have another Sydney club well placed for the future also.

We can get all the benefits from NS and the CC that you are spruiking without adding the Bears, and adding the Bears is going to cause more problems then it fixes when rearranging what we already have to cover the CC and NS fixes a lot of those problems and leaves another spot in the comp open for another club to enter from a new market!

Letting a club based on the CC with or without the NS market, is just simply a bad idea, a very bad idea, rationalising the clubs in Sydney and using what we've already got to it's full potential is a much better way of doing it.

I just skimmed over your garbage. It wasn't worth reading in the first place! The business district would most certainly come on board the North Sydney Bears you dodo! Their are business people whom follow the Bears and will not follow RL without the Bears. CAN YOU GET THAT IN YOUR HEAD?! The northern part of Sydney/Central Coast is underepresented in top flight rugbyleague. These areas will not accept Manly as a fill in! Manly have the Peninsula and are suited for the area. Once again the Central Coast Bears will bring two markets and some great derbies into the NRL. Sydney and surrounds are not oversaturated in top flight rugbyleague clubs. Three regions with a population of well over 6million can accomodate ten NRL clubs quite easily. The local rivalries would be another welcome addition of spice and intrigue into the competition . The expansion clubs of Brisbane and Perth can still enter the competition! And are wecome! Like I have stated at least two more clubs should add value to the NRL. These clubs will add value to the NRL IN DIFFERENT WAYS! But will add value! You just don't like being wrong ! Do I call you the FONZ!?

 

[jim_57]

Central Coast Bears will never have a team. Wish people would just let that go.

Correct.

 

[Stallion]

Correct.

Think they said South Sydney would not get back in either!?

 

[jim_57]

Think they said South Sydney would not get back in either!?

Took South a couple years.. Bears have been gone nearly 20. This idea that 291019390 domant Bears fans are going to come out of the woodwork is severly overstated IMO.

Don't get me wrong I wouldn't mind seeing the bears back in the NRL, but Central Coast is way down the list of expansion targets. Best thing they could do would be to try a set up with any potential Adelaide or NZ2 bids that are as yet namesless.

By all means then let's see the domant bears fans come out in force, I think after the gloss wears off you'll find that there aren't actually that many left.

By the time it comes to decide on Expansion I would hope a Sydney club would have attempted to make CC their own by taking 4+ games a year there. Roosters may have a golden oppurtunity to test it if Allianz gets redeveloped.

 

[Perth Red]

Perth Red, stop deathriding Sydney sides. We all want a Perth team in the NRL, but I don't see why a Central Coast Bears team can't come in after Perth, Brisbane 2, and NZ 2.

There’s at least 6 places that need to be in before another nsw side. So around 2085 for the bears then!

 

[Perth Red]

I just skimmed over your garbage. It wasn't worth reading in the first place! The business district would most certainly come on board the North Sydney Bears you dodo! Their are business people whom follow the Bears and will not follow RL without the Bears.

Who? And why didn’t these mystery businessmen get behind the bears attempts to purchase the Titans?

 

[The Great Dane]

I just skimmed over your garbage. It wasn't worth reading in the first place!

If you only skimmed it then how can you possibly know it's garbage? You'd have to have read it and thought about it to know that it's garbage...

If you're going to argue with someone you need to know what their actual arguments are, in this format that means reading...

The business district would most certainly come on board the North Sydney Bears you dodo! Their are business people whom follow the Bears and will not follow RL without the Bears. CAN YOU GET THAT IN YOUR HEAD?!

I see you're going to follow your usual MO, you're going to ignore any points that are made without even an attempt at refutation and just reassert your position without evidence...

The northern part of Sydney/Central Coast is underepresented in top flight rugbyleague.

That's true, doesn't mean that we need a new club to up the representation in the two areas...

These areas will not accept Manly as a fill in! Manly have the Peninsula and are suited for the area.

Why? Why won't they accept Manly.

The distaste that NS (Bears parts of NS) had for the Sea Eagles is basically dead, a couple more generations and it'll be completely dead.

I see no reason why the Sea Eagles couldn't successfully spread themselves outside of the Peninsula with some work.

Once again the Central Coast Bears will bring two markets and some great derbies into the NRL.

That's nice an all but in the grand scheme of things it's worth what a few hundred grand a year in gate receipts if the clubs lucky...

The CC and NS simply don't add anything where it matters, broadcasting rights, sponsorship value, national exposure, advertising value, etc, it literally only adds the feel good story and some PR, and frankly that feel good value is only going to appeal to a absolutely tiny percentage of the population and it isn't worth losing all that money from the things above, it also isn't worth the problems that a CC club would compound in Sydney.

Sydney and surrounds are not oversaturated in top flight rugbyleague clubs. Three regions with a population of well over 6million can accomodate ten NRL clubs quite easily. The local rivalries would be another welcome addition of spice and intrigue into the competition .

You keep saying that over and over but all the evidence is to the contrary...

The expansion clubs of Brisbane and Perth can still enter the competition! And are wecome! Like I have stated at least two more clubs should add value to the NRL. These clubs will add value to the NRL IN DIFFERENT WAYS! But will add value! You just don't like being wrong ! Do I call you the FONZ!?

It's nice that you and the Sydney clubs have decided that Perth and another Brisbane team are welcome in the national competition, but only once Sydney gets their 10th team...

 

[Stallion]

Took South a couple years.. Bears have been gone nearly 20. This idea that 291019390 domant Bears fans are going to come out of the woodwork is severly overstated IMO.

Don't get me wrong I wouldn't mind seeing the bears back in the NRL, but Central Coast is way down the list of expansion targets. Best thing they could do would be to try a set up with any potential Adelaide or NZ2 bids that are as yet namesless.

By all means then let's see the domant bears fans come out in force, I think after the gloss wears off you'll find that there aren't actually that many left.

By the time it comes to decide on Expansion I would hope a Sydney club would have attempted to make CC their own by taking 4+ games a year there. Roosters may have a golden oppurtunity to test it if Allianz gets redeveloped.

In the pecking order I would suggest Brisbane 2 as number one . I think some people have underestimated North Sydney Bears and its tangible links with the Central Coast . A fan has already mentioned that its a 39minute drive. Throw in the railway station access and its very attractive for hibernating Bears fans. Remembering that the Bears were unfairly ousted along with other clubs having to merge due to flawed competition decisions from poor and short sighted administrators. It's more than realistic that two neglected markets will be positively affected if the Bears re enter the comp in the northern Sydney area and the Coast . As a Roosters fan I'm of the opinion that they need to lift their development of juniors in their own area. The Roosters already stage a player recruitment open day (which I've played in ) and with a decent amount of proactiveness can rejuvenate the Eastern Suburbs into playing rugby league again. Even introducing leaguetag would be a great enticer for the local kids these days! Laziness and apathy should not see an abandonment of their district. That's being blunt but honest for the benefit of the code and over time the "East Sydney Roosters "(my preferred name for this club).

 

[Stallion]

Who? And why didn’t these mystery businessmen get behind the bears attempts to purchase the Titans?

Waste of time . The Bears should stick with the potential and commonsense of the Central Coast. Its proximity is compelling and its accessibility for the longtime hibernating fans makes good sense. It's logical . I notice the implosionist 'thinkers' are about ?That's consistent with your flawed, disrespectful and poor mathematical market logic. Not others! That know of the damage that has been done and steps to remedy such poor regard for the code will be better than throwing pins on a map and thinking no one will mind or forget.