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Gould reviewing Dragons.

Discussion in 'St George Illawarra Dragons' started by corvettedragon, Sep 6, 2019.

  1. hazzbeen

    hazzbeen Bench

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    The problem here is anything better than 15th will be an improvement in their eyes , if he gets them to the 8 then they will sign him for life :) Jokes aside they will never win a title with this bloke . So for me its going to take another 5 years or longer before another coach comes in and starts to rebuild again. So get used to it that we win a few games here and there but won't be a real contender for the big one .....
     
  2. Dragsters

    Dragsters Bench

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    "no where else to go"

    That'll do me...
     
  3. tumbidragon

    tumbidragon First Grade

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    Can't say I'm angry as this was the outcome many of us were expecting... Looking forward to 2021-22. Only thing to hope for would be to sign Flanno as an ''assistant'' coach and try doing to Paul, what Manly did with Baz.
     
    nontime111, Carlton and hazzbeen like this.
  4. WA 'S OWN RED V

    WA 'S OWN RED V Juniors

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    No credibility really ?
    Played 104 FG games. Club captain aged 20.
    287 games as FG coach 60% win rate.
    24 games NSW Coach 60% win rate.
    Been involved with Newtown, South,Penrith and Roosters.
    Football manager, football director.

    I can understand if you don't like him.
    I am happy for him to have done a
    review. At least he's a fresh set of eyes.
     
    JohnnoMcJohnno likes this.
  5. jak

    jak Juniors

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    when does mary turn 65, retirement is now our best option.
     
  6. Old Timer

    Old Timer Coach

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    All his major achievements are from long ago and bygone era's and he has not put any of it on the line in recent times to prove he still has it.
    His recent time at Penrith as football manager etc was anything but successful and despite all his blustering Penrith are still gross under achievers despite having all the "systems" in place.
    I put Gould in the same bucket as Brian Smith, Tim Sheens in that their best was very good but not relevant in the scheme of things in the modern era.
    Gould has turned into an opinionated bloated toad fish who is lauded because of his bombastic nature.
    Mary is safe under Gould's review so what the f**k did he look at and what good will it do our fortunes in the immediate future because the simple fact is Mary isn't a coaches arsehole.
     
    Tuddy, Dragon Blood, ALSGI and 5 others like this.
  7. Mickthedragon

    Mickthedragon Juniors

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    "Nowhere else to go", well there is actually and that's last.
    We will give the wooden spoon a real shake next year if this happens.
    We all shouldn't even be surprised by this news.
    Membership numbers will continue to decline.
    Things are looking pretty grim at the
    moment, what a joke.
     
  8. West coast dragon

    West coast dragon Bench

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    Review what review? When your friend comes in to critique your work and nothing happens it’s hardly a f**kn review
     
  9. West coast dragon

    West coast dragon Bench

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    Yep how many 5 year plans at Penrith? lol
     
  10. Dragon David

    Dragon David Juniors

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    Well said Dennis - a good ending to your post! Whilst the expected outcome with McGregor continuing as coach is now becoming more evident, it puzzles nearly all of us die hard Dragons fans as to how the hell he has managed this?
    For this year in particular, he would have sprouted that the whole season was shattered right from the start with the JDB incident. I honestly think that this was the main cause of the poor season. If JDB plays, and we all know how much he offers in defence and areas of attack, I am sure that we would have won more games this year and no doubt Widdop"s recurrence of the shoulder injury and his absence for a significant time had a big bearing in outcomes as well.
    McGregor would have pushed this argument as much as he could to benefit his retention. How much better the Dragons would have performed even if these two played under McGregor is still questionable given his poor historical results.
    The win/loss ratio in say the first 6-8 games next year will be a big factor and if JDB is cleared, hopefully this will be the case, not long after the start of the comp, and he plays, then this might help. If not, our playing squad for next year, in my opinion, will be basically the same as it is now with several younger guys in. Will they be able to achieve what McGregor is hoping for? Will players like Norman and Hunt combine better? Can the coach make all the necessary improvements needed from fullback, wingers, centres and halves to be much more competitive next year? I doubt it!
     
    Dennis Papaioannou likes this.
  11. Paddles

    Paddles Juniors

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    Oh FFS! I drafted the following and submitted to The Roar yesterday in the hope of getting in before they announced an extension. If it's all just a stitch up playing out in slow motion I may as well share it here:

    [PART 1]

    Paul McGregor has failed as coach of St George Illawarra. In 2019 the team has conceded the most points in a season in St George Illawarra history (575), and scored the second least (427), and achieved the worst differential.

    The problems underlying this failure are longstanding. McGregor has repeatedly demonstrated conservative management of his team and squad, failed to develop players and refused accept responsibility or learn from his mistakes.

    The current board also failing. In addition to overseeing the club’s worst finish in 98 years, the club has managed the worst ever crowds at Wollongong (5578, v Melb on 4 June 2019) and Kogarah (6532 v Titans on 10 August). The club is demoralized, their football is terrible, and the fans are either revolting or disinterested.

    Dragons ladder finishes under McGregor

    Year Ladder

    2014 - 11

    2015 - 8

    2016 - 11

    2017 - 9

    2018 - 7

    2019 - 15

    McGregor’s results make for poor reading. Between 2014 and 2019, he has a highest finish of seventh and a lowest of 15th. In a 16 team competition, with a well regulated salary cap, this is an objective failure.

    All else being equal teams should finish around 8th or 9th most of the time, sometimes higher, sometimes lower. McGregor’s teams have finished higher than the median just once in six years. In addition, in 2012 and 2013 as reserve grade coach, he led teams to 6th and 9th.

    2019 has been the worst year of McGregor’s long tenure, in addition to being the Dragons worst since their grading in 1921. Sympathetic commentary has sought reasons including the loss of Jack de Belin and the injury to Gareth Widdop as reasons. Losing quality players is an issue, but not one unique to the Dragons. The Storm performed without Cronk, and the Dragons won 4 of their first 6 without de Belin. The problems at the Dragons are deeper, and will not be solved with McGregor at the helm.
     
    Qapm, tumbidragon, draco and 5 others like this.
  12. Paddles

    Paddles Juniors

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    [Part 2]

    End of season fade-outs
    Setting aside 2014 (McGregor’s first half-season), the Dragons have run out of puff mid-way through every year. In 2015 they did not win between rounds 12 and 21. In 2016, they registered just two wins after round 16. In 2017, they won four after round 13. In 2018 it was just three wins after round 16.

    In 2019, after re-signing McGregor for a further two years, the Dragons managed just four wins after round 6. Two of these were against the atrocious Titan, one against the 14th placed Cowboys, and one against the then last Bulldogs.

    McGregor has not been able to identify or fix these problems. The flip side to this is that for the last three years the Dragons have started the season well. Rumour has it that the Dragons board is determined not to admit that they erred in re-signing McGregor so soon, and have set him an early 2020 test that he needs to pass in order to retain his position. History suggests he will pass this test, then fade again.

    Inability to nurture up and coming talent
    In 2016, the Dragons reserve grade side won the premiership and interstate cup under Jason Demetriou. Demetrious was moved on the next year. In 2019 the Dragons reserve grade side is in the preliminary final under Matt Head. There are reports he will be sacked at the end of the year.

    The Dragons development systems are full of talent that does not get a look into McGregor’s teams, and either atrophies or looks for opportunities elsewhere. For example Lachlan Timm leads the reserve grade competition for runs, decoy runs, metres, post contact metres and tackles. McGregor could not find a place for him in his top 21 all year, nor explain to fans why.

    Jackson Ford, who just trailed Timm in numerous categories, was given a start in round 21 with the season long gone. Jason Saab was handed a jersey in round 19, with the season gone. Zac Lomax was demoted to reserve grade after starring at the back end of 2018. Reuben Garrick, starved of opportunities, fled to Manly where he starred. Pat Herbert found a start at the Warriors. Josh Kerr, Mikaele Ravilawa, Jai Field, Taane Milne were and are ignored. Coach favourites Josh McCrone, Jeremy Latimore, Euan Aitken, Tim Lafai and others have been automatic selections, and opportunities presented to journeymen like Lachlan Maranta and Patrick Faufusi.

    This phenomenon is not new. As early as 2016 articles about this ‘coaching technique destroying the Dragons’ were written after McGregor ‘left the great red and white hope and off-load machine, Luciano Leilua, on the bench’ in a crucial game until the team was 30 points down and the season done. The highly talented Leilua remains a fringe first grader in 2019. In 2017, Brendan Bradford asked whether it was ‘time for McGregor to start playing some of the young-guns the Dragons have in their ranks?’ McGregor circa 2019 appears to disagree still.

    Sympathetic commentators point out that squad deficiencies are not McGregor’s fault. Apart from the fact that McGregor himself says he ‘has the roster he wants’, those same commentators would do well to acknowledge that McGregor lost responsibility for recruitment and retention after a disastrous 2016 season at the recommendation of Mark Coyne and the board. This change was meant to allow him to focus on results.

    Inability to accept shortcomings and demonstrate leadership
    Andrew Webster recently wrote about the Dragons ‘season from hell’, noting the de Belin and Widdop issues, but also questioning some of the other excuses offered. For a period McGregor’s press conferences became a catchphrase bingo as he noted the opposition scored tries from kicks (as if they don’t count) among other odd pronouncements. In April after losing to the Roosters, McGregor repeatedly referred to them as ‘the best team in the world’. In June he said that ‘If we stop the game after 30 minutes we’re in the top 4’. In July he said the team had ‘next level distractions and no element of luck’. When the team had slid to 14th McGregor declared that ‘we can win [the comp]’.

    McGregor is well supported by a revolving cast of assistants who appear to take the fall for the team’s results. In addition to Demetrious and Head being moved on despite their success, reports are that Ben Hornby, Mick Crawley and maybe Dean Young are also on their way out after 2019. They join the numerous other backroom staff that the Dragons have cycled through in the McGregor years. Across town, Trent Robinson supported the ambitious Adam O’Brien’s interest in the top job at Newcastle, saying ‘That's what head coaches are there for. We are there to develop and progress, and he is good enough for the job.’ The difference in leadership philosophy and respect is stark.

    Throughout 2019 there has been a deafening silence from the Dragons CEO and board as records tumbled. The club made prominent noises about a Gould review late in the season, only for it to appear to be a sham. The press release noted that Gould had ‘agreed to take part in aspects’ of the review. Gould later acknowledged he was not being paid, and was involved ‘as a favour to Dragons coach and good friend Paul McGregor, who will not be under pressure.’

    The Dragons are crumbling with McGregor at the helm. Removing responsibilities has not worked and nor has cycling through assistants. For the sake of the fans, I hope that there is more happening behind the scenes than it appears.
     
    Qapm, Btk, Nanadragon and 11 others like this.
  13. Blood Shot Eyes

    Blood Shot Eyes Bench

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    Yet another excuse Flanno not available till 2022 and thats to go along with the JDB disruptions, and Widdops injury etc etc....what a miserable rabble and an excuse for a club we are.......The Imposters head was NEVER on the chopping block from the time his tenure was extended by these fools in charge.....as I repeat where and when in any sport has a bloke been given so much latitude for performing so poorly....its a bloody farce and an utter disgrace to expect us loyal, dedicated and passionate supporters to keep absorbing this shit......after 60 years my cue is still firmly in the rack and wont be removed untill this Imposter is gone
     
  14. Dennis Papaioannou

    Dennis Papaioannou Bench

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    My big problem with the De Belin and Widdop exclusions is that so many clubs had injury concerns to key players and still performed.
    Manly being a standout with Turbo Tom (I would put him at least on the same level of importance as Widdop for example) and a host of other forwards being injured during the season.
    Cronulla was another that was decimated by injuries and still scraped into the 8.
    If we can honestly, hand on heart say that one middle forward (as good as he may be) can have such a negative impact on our for and against as well as the psychology of the whole team then someone is not doing their job properly.
    De Belin should not have been part of the day to day training regime and McGregor should have moved swiftly to fill that void with the talent he had at his disposal.
    Finishing second last and raising the white flag on numerous occasions with blow out score lines is not acceptable in professional sport.
    This season was the culmination of the McGregor coaching disaster and the main sufferers were the fans.
    Unforgiveable.
     
  15. Dennis Papaioannou

    Dennis Papaioannou Bench

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    Maybe we should have a review of the review...
     
  16. giboz71

    giboz71 First Grade

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    The review is correct in that there was a severe lack of expertise in the coaching box. Hornby and Young (like Mary) have no business being in an NRL coaching team. They got appointed back in 2014 (by Mary) with only minimal experience in 20's and Flegg.

    Other clubs have expertise of guys like O'Brien, Fitzgibbon, Ryles, Jim Dymock, JD etc. Even former head coaches like Taylor, Cartwright and Furner have landed assistant gigs.

    So not only are we massively outgunned in the head coaching space, but also when it comes to assistant coaches as well.

    Is it any wonder we play such a clueless brand of footy. At the very least, if we can get some football knowledge in the joint, that's a good start.
     
  17. BBTB

    BBTB Juniors

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    That's done it for me.
    Will not be renewing my membership.
    Or purchasing any merchandise.
    Definitely won't attend any games.
     
  18. St Georgio

    St Georgio Juniors

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    Yippee Go Go St Illawarra Mafia!
     
  19. Dennis Papaioannou

    Dennis Papaioannou Bench

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    This freebie review for a mate did his credibility no favours.
     
  20. BBTB

    BBTB Juniors

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    Quitting st George Illawarra membership.
     
    Carlton likes this.

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