Halfbacks - split from Michael Lett Thread.

[parra pete]

addmittedly he didnt do that often enough in 2006, but he did... he lost his confidence his young... if you don't believe timmy is a strong enough person to fix his problems, and learn... we'll you obviously don't know him very well at all. He will always be in thje blue and gold, because it's in his blood... so i hope i realy do that one day you learn to apprecaite his talent.

I don't know him at all.

 

[bartman]

Tim has to perform in the furst half dozen weeks or so I think.

Backing up a shocking year last year, with the players coming through, I think he has it to prove all over again.

That's about where I fall on the issue.

Rookie of the year '05, ordinary second year. Make or break for Timmy, he'll have six weeks to show that he should be in the jersey, or there'll be swapsies. We seem to have more strength in the halves (or a year's more experience) this season, competition for places is good.

I don't so much buy the "hlafbacks can only play well if their pack is going great" excuse. A trully great halfback will be creative and dependable regardless, not fall apart and start yelling at his teammates if they have less space to do their work in.

I seriously hope Tim recaptures some of the skill and confidence he showed in 2005. I will be cheering for him to do so. And no reason why he can't develop a better running game either, he's still young and hopefully still learning.

 

[The Colonel]

A trully great halfback will be creative and dependable regardless, not fall apart and start yelling at his teammates if they have less space to do their work in.

That probably rules Andrew Johns out as being a great halfback then....;-)... dependable maybe but creative maybe not al;l the time. Timmy has shown he can be creative under pressure - the kick that lead to the try against the Warriors inside his own half is evidence of that.

I still believe a lot of what took place last year on the field lies at the feet of the bloke that is now in Newcastle. While the guy may be smart he never had a successful second year with a halfback......

 

[fish eel]

I still believe a lot of what took place last year on the field lies at the feet of the bloke that is now in Newcastle. While the guy may be smart he never had a successful second year with a halfback......

Time will tell but Tim Smith also needs to take some personal responsibility. Off field events would indicate a degree of complacency and arrogance imo.

 

[bartman]

Good point C, I probably should have separated being a great halfback from a decent person and teammate.

Hopefully Tim's turned the corner, and soon gets his chance to prove it to his new coach, his teammates, fans and critics, and himself. Or suffer the consequences.

 

[The Colonel]

Time will tell but Tim Smith also needs to take some personal responsibility. Off field events would indicate a degree of complacency and arrogance imo.

I don't disagree with that at all.But, Tim wasn't alone in that respect either, though he did have more than most, and to me that still points back to the bloke running the show. Discipline and some leadership, in the end, got us back into the top eight at a point where we probably shouldn't have been.

 

[yy_cheng]

not fall apart and start yelling at his teammates if they have less space to do their work in.

Uh oh....Didn't Finchy do this at the chooks? So we'll have 2 of them !

 

[Ron Jeremy]

I cant believe what i'm reading. So if a forward pack is going backwards, the half should still create something special?, or the backs aren't in position or showing know signs of awarness the half back should still create something?

If a player kicking the ball on the rlast recieves a bad ball fromdummy half, he should still be able to kicka fourty-twenty aswell?

Go forward leads the platform for everyside, if you have played League or particulary halfback you'll know this, it's commonsense really, and just laughable that a half should recieve the blame.

Read any post match report froma wining coach, quite often you'll hear " the forwards went forward today which gave our halves the opportunity to create something" but what do coaches know?

 

[Ron Jeremy]

That probably rules Andrew Johns out as being a great halfback then....;-)... dependable maybe but creative maybe not al;l the time. Timmy has shown he can be creative under pressure - the kick that lead to the try against the Warriors inside his own half is evidence of that.

I still believe a lot of what took place last year on the field lies at the feet of the bloke that is now in Newcastle. While the guy may be smart he never had a successful second year with a halfback......

Kusto played consistent first grade with us ;-)

 

[fish eel]

I don't disagree with that at all.But, Tim wasn't alone in that respect either, though he did have more than most, and to me that still points back to the bloke running the show. Discipline and some leadership, in the end, got us back into the top eight at a point where we probably shouldn't have been.

I dont disagree with the thrust about what you are saying, but I think we learnt a lot about Tim Smith's make up last year, and what he is made of.

It's up to him to show he learnt from it, and that it was just a blip, and that he has grown up.

IMO, he is starting with a clean slate. The ball is in his court, perform or he wont be wearing the number 7.

 

[The Colonel]

I dont disagree with the thrust about what you are saying, but I think we learnt a lot about Tim Smith's make up last year, and what he is made of.

It's up to him to show he learnt from it, and that it was just a blip, and that he has grown up.

IMO, he is starting with a clean slate. The ball is in his court, perform or he wont be wearing the number 7.

Regardless of last year that should be how every player is treated......

 

[yy_cheng]

Ron, I think Bart means that if the forwards aren't going forward, the halfback needs to take more RESPONSIBILITY rather than go missing or blame others. H
e needs to lead the others.

HOW? With a RUCK HIMSELF? Of course not, but he could talk it up more, telling players what needs to be done, be supportive and sometimes creative such as Timmy's kick on his own goal line to the wing.

And why should it be the halfback and not the captain? Usually, the halfback (or 5/8th e.g. lockyer) is the smartest player (between the ears that is) on the field and has the vision to see what will happen a few plays down.

 

[Jake the snake]

I cant believe what i'm reading. So if a forward pack is going backwards, the half should still create something special?, or the backs aren't in position or showing know signs of awarness the half back should still create something?

If a player kicking the ball on the rlast recieves a bad ball fromdummy half, he should still be able to kicka fourty-twenty aswell?

Go forward leads the platform for everyside, if you have played League or particulary halfback you'll know this, it's commonsense really, and just laughable that a half should recieve the blame.

Read any post match report froma wining coach, quite often you'll hear " the forwards went forward today which gave our halves the opportunity to create something" but what do coaches know?

With ya 100%. The forwards were Rubbish last year, I understand we did have injuries. But if we dont have go forward we are screwed. Cayless and Hindmarsh and the rest need to Improve. They need to give room for the halfs to operate.The only meter eater was FUI.

No half back can expect to play well behind a pack that is Soft and going backwards. Not even Johns, Sterlo could do this.

All Tim Smith needs is a forwards going forward and creating room and he will do the rest.

 

[MarkInTheStands]

Time will tell but Tim Smith also needs to take some personal responsibility. Off field events would indicate a degree of complacency and arrogance imo.

Untill half way through the season I would agree with you, but what about after that? There were actions shown in the media that he had to my mind matured a deal in that time.

 

[Belly in Brisvegas]

I think Timmy's 2nd half of the year when he played was reminiscent of his 2005 form...not fully but played a lot better up until Kirk Reynoldson ironed him out.

 

[fish eel]

Untill half way through the season I would agree with you, but what about after that? There were actions shown in the media that he had to my mind matured a deal in that time.

IMO, the jury is still out.

There was one incident were he was wrongly accussed by we all know who.

While it was pleasing he was 'clean', I'd be expecting to see him keep his sh*t together off field and be more responsible for more than half a season.

And before anyone says anything about why I am bringing up the off field stuff, I believe there is an undeniable nexus between what happened off and on the field.

 

[Prodigal Eel]

Well, for a bloke living away from his family, going through a tough time at a young age, and add to that personal problems (people were mentioning that something was going on with his family) can caus huge problems to performance.

 

[Bazal]

A good half can run the game without a dominant or fast 5/8, eg Johns with sean rudder, to blame John Morris for Tim and Jeremy Smith's form this year is a cop out. Morris was great in 05 and very solid in 06 while not being the fastest 5/8 his organising took a lot of pressure off our half, not to mention his defence,which while I think Finch will bring more options in attack Morris's defence will be missed.

It's not a cop out, it's a fact. Tim Smith was already down on confidence and form, add a useless five-eighth to the equation and you get season 2006...the fact that both our halves struggled alongside Morris is a clear indication that he was not doing his job at five-eighth. Teams worked him out, and targetted him, and he had no answers. He took no pressure off, in fact he built pressure on his own halfback by being behind the play every single time he got the ball. The number of times he broke down a backline movement by himself, whether outside Tim or Jeremy, was ridiculous. On top of that, the ball more often than not stopped moving when it got to him. As a result, Tim felt he had to do everything himself and just ended up digging himself a deeper hole. Morris is not solely to blame for Tim Smiths form, I never said he was. But he sure as heck contributed to his woeful season. I think, with Finch outside him, Tim will be able to play his natural game a lot more, without worrying about playing halfback and five-eighth like he did when he was partnered with Morris.

And your reference to Andrew Johns is a silly one, they are two different player. Tim Smith likes to combine with his halves partner to run the side around, whereas Johns uses his halves partner as a running back/forward, hence Rudder and Johns worked well. Johns is in sole control of the Knights, Smith is not solely in control of Parramatta...Look at how Thurston struggled at times this year with no halves partner and no go forward, he is a similar player to Smith.

 

[Parra Guru]

I personally am glad he's left but I thought John Morris played his best footy for Parra in 2006. He should NOT be blamed for Tim's poor season.

 

[fish eel]

Look at how Thurston struggled at times this year with no halves partner and no go forward, he is a similar player to Smith.

I think Smith and Thurston are chalk and cheese