Halfbacks - split from Michael Lett Thread.

[caylo]

yy_cheng your so funny, but the reality is if the your only as strong and your weakest link, if the players don't stand up no matter how hard timmy tries we will get nothing. If forwards don't make meters timmy will be kicking clearence kicks all game. If the hooker gives a bad ball, timmy has less time to react, if any at all. If the backs arn't running holes timmy can't throw that pass... its a team effort

 

[Ron Jeremy]

Tell Pete that, he doesn't get it.

 

[parra pete]

yy_cheng your so funny, but the reality is if the your only as strong and your weakest link, if the players don't stand up no matter how hard timmy tries we will get nothing. If forwards don't make meters timmy will be kicking clearence kicks all game. If the hooker gives a bad ball, timmy has less time to react, if any at all. If the backs arn't running holes timmy can't throw that pass... its a team effort
Try this simple exercise. Not meant to create ill will or controversy. Just a simple quiz. It doesn't concern me one bit, and will not change my opinion on anything.
Answer truthfully, take into account the form shown in 2006...not anything that happened previously. Just base it on LAST season.
Was Tim Smith the weakest link in 2006 that's the question you have to ask yourself?
Go through the top 17 players efforts during the 2006 season and rate them best player 1 - worst player - 17. Where does Tim Smith fit?
In the top half or the bottom half?

 

[parra pete]

Tell Pete that, he doesn't get it.

Doesn't get what?
It's the chicken and the egg theory.
Who calls the shots???? Does the half back lead the forwards - or the forwards lead the half back?
If the half back is out of sorts..what happens then?

 

[MarkInTheStands]

Was Tim Smith the weakest link in 2006 that's the question you have to ask yourself?

No - The Forwards were their lack of form and fitness early cost us big.

Go through the top 17 players efforts during the 2006 season and rate them best player 1 - worst player - 17. Where does Tim Smith fit?
In the top half or the bottom half?[/quote]

1 - Hindmarsh
2 - Fui
3 - Cayless
4 - Tahu
5 - Eric Jnr
6 - Tim Smith
6 - Pj
6 - Riddell

Need I go on ?

 

[MarkInTheStands]

Doesn't get what?
It's the chicken and the egg theory.
Who calls the shots???? Does the half back lead the forwards - or the forwards lead the half back?
If the half back is out of sorts..what happens then?

Halfback can't tell them how hard to run, or how fit to be. That comes back to a combination of things. The Clubs forwards all having Perental leave in the off season. No trials. Lack of Fitness, the Spirit in the club.

 

[caylo]

yy_cheng your so funny, but the reality is if the your only as strong and your weakest link, if the players don't stand up no matter how hard timmy tries we will get nothing. If forwards don't make meters timmy will be kicking clearence kicks all game. If the hooker gives a bad ball, timmy has less time to react, if any at all. If the backs arn't running holes timmy can't throw that pass... its a team effort
Try this simple exercise. Not meant to create ill will or controversy. Just a simple quiz. It doesn't concern me one bit, and will not change my opinion on anything.
Answer truthfully, take into account the form shown in 2006...not anything that happened previously. Just base it on LAST season.
Was Tim Smith the weakest link in 2006 that's the question you have to ask yourself?
Go through the top 17 players efforts during the 2006 season and rate them best player 1 - worst player - 17. Where does Tim Smith fit?
In the top half or the bottom half?

pff... hell no. when he was playing, we where aweful, horrid. Players like Vella, Cayless, Hindmarsh even wont always on their game. I remember numerous times Mckinnon in clear space only to make a stupid error. I remember him playing the ball to no-one againts the cowboys ( i think) when we where ahead only to loss. i remember we being up against manly and losing with 20 to go, is this timmy fault no. Only on 2006 form, me being honest. He started the first 4 weeks with alot of flair, alot of accuracy in his kicking game, but we just couldnt win. We wont playing badly but feel away as a team with 20 to go. His confidence took a beating, and he was frustrated and stopped playing his game, started trying to hard. I know timmy didnt preform all that well but he when he was playign badly so was everyone else. His whole season was not a right off though, he did do good things i.e knights game. our winning streak started realy with that knights game, and timmy got injured, our forwards starting going forward in that game, but timmy wasnt there to capitualise. On timmy form last season id still stick with him at halfback.
Now a question for you pete (and since I've answered your don't ingnore mine, and answer it please)
On timmys form in 2005 and 2006, do you conclude he is talentless, and we are all getting to excited over nothing? DO you think timmy can be special, and do you honestly think finch is a better halfback?

 

[Suitman]

Halfback can't tell them how hard to run, or how fit to be. That comes back to a combination of things. The Clubs forwards all having Perental leave in the off season. No trials. Lack of Fitness, the Spirit in the club.

Geez, don't tell me you are still going on about that? :roll:

Poor dears.

Suity

 

[fish eel]

Halfback can't tell them how hard to run, or how fit to be. That comes back to a combination of things. The Clubs forwards all having Perental leave in the off season. No trials. Lack of Fitness, the Spirit in the club.

the paternal leave thing is a cop out.

 

[parra pete]

pff... hell no. when he was playing, we where aweful, horrid. Players like Vella, Cayless, Hindmarsh even wont always on their game. I remember numerous times Mckinnon in clear space only to make a stupid error. I remember him playing the ball to no-one againts the cowboys ( i think) when we where ahead only to loss. i remember we being up against manly and losing with 20 to go, is this timmy fault no. Only on 2006 form, me being honest. He started the first 4 weeks with alot of flair, alot of accuracy in his kicking game, but we just couldnt win. We wont playing badly but feel away as a team with 20 to go. His confidence took a beating, and he was frustrated and stopped playing his game, started trying to hard. I know timmy didnt preform all that well but he when he was playign badly so was everyone else. His whole season was not a right off though, he did do good things i.e knights game. our winning streak started realy with that knights game, and timmy got injured, our forwards starting going forward in that game, but timmy wasnt there to capitualise. On timmy form last season id still stick with him at halfback.
Now a question for you pete (and since I've answered your don't ingnore mine, and answer it please)
On timmys form in 2005 and 2006, do you conclude he is talentless, and we are all getting to excited over nothing? DO you think timmy can be special, and do you honestly think finch is a better halfback?

I don't think he is talentless..it is my opinion (and I have said before that that is not the be all and end all, I'm no expert) Tim just doesn't have , how shall I put it, the special toughness required to compete at NRL level.
He can have special moments, that's for sure, but I think he goes missing when the match needs him to stand up and be counted.
Some of his work in 2005 was sensational, and I too admired him and saw him as the ANSWER.
Saying that I was very very disappointed with his effort in 2006, leaving aside his off field problems.. He wasn't up to it
He had a shocker in the loss to the prelim final to the Cowdies and never recovered form that match and the belting Luke O'Donnell dished out.
The Cowdies targetted him and showed every coach how to play against him, and he has not been able to adjust his game. His game is so predictable.
He shovels the ball out as soon as he gets it, won't run, and doesn't even get to the advantage line. His team mates took plenty of bullets meant for him in defence because of his reluctance to run with the ball. An interesting statistic would be the number of times he played the ball in 2006. His total yardage gained over the season would not have taken him from one try line to the other.
And I do rate Brett Finch a lot higher than I rate Tim Smith - as a half back.
I think Finch will play more half back than Tim Smith in 2007...

 

[cardinal]

I don't think he is talentless..it is my opinion (and I have said before that that is not the be all and end all, I'm no expert) Tim just doesn't have , how shall I put it, the special toughness required to compete at NRL level.
He can have special moments, that's for sure, but I think he goes missing when the match needs him to stand up and be counted.
Some of his work in 2005 was sensational, and I too admired him and saw him as the ANSWER.
Saying that I was very very disappointed with his effort in 2006, leaving aside his off field problems.. He wasn't up to it
He had a shocker in the loss to the prelim final to the Cowdies and never recovered form that match and the belting Luke O'Donnell dished out.
The Cowdies targetted him and showed every coach how to play against him, and he has not been able to adjust his game. His game is so predictable.
He shovels the ball out as soon as he gets it, won't run, and doesn't even get to the advantage line. His team mates took plenty of bullets meant for him in defence because of his reluctance to run with the ball. An interesting statistic would be the number of times he played the ball in 2006. His total yardage gained over the season would not have taken him from one try line to the other.
And I do rate Brett Finch a lot higher than I rate Tim Smith - as a half back.
I think Finch will play more half back than Tim Smith in 2007...

The post I have been waiting for pete, can't really disagree with much of that. I have been waiting for you to give him some credit for 05 (not saying you have not before I may have just missed it) When you make clear points about Tim's form it is easier to accept than the trivial personal attacks on him. Just as you are allowed your opinion I am sure you don't mind being disagreed with. I accept your opinion of Tim but I also accept the man we are paying $300000 a year to coach us says he is going to be the num 1 1/2 at our club, how long he has that spot for no one knows, but I say we get behind him rather than bag him before a ball has been kicked.

 

[1eyedeel]

Ironically I'd suggest the first coach to pick on Tim was Michael Hagan, he had Clint Newton running at him all day when they played in 2005 and pretty much every coach did the same thing after that...

Pete this is not particular to Tim. Very few playmakers are able to have a good game when they're getting belted about. Its up to the forwards and the coach to counteract that.

Having Brett Finch or even Blake GReen outside him is going to make a world of difference. Let's face it John Morris was not going to put any fear in any team. He may have complemented Tim well before other sides worked out you just had to snub him out and we had nothing but as soon as that became obvious we needed a more creative player at six.

This year, if you put extra pressure on Tim its going to great space for Finch. Throw Feleti into the mix and we've got a lot more options and that helps any half back.

 

[caylo]

His game is so predictable. He shovels the ball out as soon as he gets it, won't run, and doesn't even get to the advantage line. His team mates took plenty of bullets meant for him in defence because of his reluctance to run with the ball. An interesting statistic would be the number of times he played the ball in 2006. His total yardage gained over the season would not have taken him from one try line to the other.
And I do rate Brett Finch a lot higher than I rate Tim Smith - as a half back.
I think Finch will play more half back than Tim Smith in 2007...

addmittedly he didnt do that often enough in 2006, but he did... he lost his confidence his young... if you don't believe timmy is a strong enough person to fix his problems, and learn... we'll you obviously don't know him very well at all. He will always be in thje blue and gold, because it's in his blood... so i hope i realy do that one day you learn to apprecaite his talent.

 

[cardinal]

addmittedly he didnt do that often enough in 2006, but he did... he lost his confidence his young... if you don't believe timmy is a strong enough person to fix his problems, and learn... we'll you obviously don't know him very well at all. He will always be in thje blue and gold, because it's in his blood... so i hope i realy do that one day you learn to apprecaite his talent.

Big call, if he does'nt perform he won't be resigned, if he does he will be offered a truck load of money to go else where. I'd like to be as confident as you that he will be our long term 1/2 but always is a long time.

 

[Bazal]

Ironically I'd suggest the first coach to pick on Tim was Michael Hagan, he had Clint Newton running at him all day when they played in 2005 and pretty much every coach did the same thing after that...

Pete this is not particular to Tim. Very few playmakers are able to have a good game when they're getting belted about. Its up to the forwards and the coach to counteract that.

Having Brett Finch or even Blake GReen outside him is going to make a world of difference. Let's face it John Morris was not going to put any fear in any team. He may have complemented Tim well before other sides worked out you just had to snub him out and we had nothing but as soon as that became obvious we needed a more creative player at six.

This year, if you put extra pressure on Tim its going to great space for Finch. Throw Feleti into the mix and we've got a lot more options and that helps any half back.

Exactly. Not only was Tim Smith down on confidence, he lacked a partner to take the pressure off him. Morris had a stellar year at 5/8 in 2005 but he was very one dimensional and slow, and over the off season teams worked that out. All they had to do was pressure Morris and his inability to think and react quickly would come to the fore. I play 5/8 and half, and even at my level you need to be quick on your feet and quick between the ears, which Morris was not. Too often a promising movement broke down because Morris was still two passes back in the middle of the field and had to wait for his brain to catch up. At NRL level that is a fatal flaw, and our halfbacks suffered. Both Tim and Jeremy Smith struggled much of the time without a proper partner taking some of the load and pressure away from them. Morris was unable to work in tandem with his halves and, on top of his lack of form, that just about buried poor Timmy. And to top it all off, just as he started to hit his straps (outplaying the "great" Andrew Johns at Parra Stadium), he caught an awkward hit and broke his collarbone. He had a poor year, yes, but it was above all else a luckless season. He couldn;t get a break. He certainly has the talent to turn that around and he should be given every opportunity.

 

[Ron Jeremy]

Doesn't get what?
It's the chicken and the egg theory.
Who calls the shots???? Does the half back lead the forwards - or the forwards lead the half back?
If the half back is out of sorts..what happens then?

Yeah, the halfbacks lead the forwards:roll: like they haven't got a mind of there own, they need a 20 year old to tell them to run the ball up hard and fast. Actually thats pretty hard when our forward back this year was predominately dominated by 90kg backrowers and two 50 minute playing props.

No theory needed, just commonsense.

If the half back is out of sorts CONSISTENTLY when the forwards are going forward then the half back needs to be replaced.

Again, if Peter Sterling wasn't playing well due to the forwards not going forward, would you've dropped Sterlo?

 

[cardinal]

Exactly. Not only was Tim Smith down on confidence, he lacked a partner to take the pressure off him. Morris had a stellar year at 5/8 in 2005 but he was very one dimensional and slow, and over the off season teams worked that out. All they had to do was pressure Morris and his inability to think and react quickly would come to the fore. I play 5/8 and half, and even at my level you need to be quick on your feet and quick between the ears, which Morris was not. Too often a promising movement broke down because Morris was still two passes back in the middle of the field and had to wait for his brain to catch up. At NRL level that is a fatal flaw, and our halfbacks suffered. Both Tim and Jeremy Smith struggled much of the time without a proper partner taking some of the load and pressure away from them. Morris was unable to work in tandem with his halves and, on top of his lack of form, that just about buried poor Timmy. And to top it all off, just as he started to hit his straps (outplaying the "great" Andrew Johns at Parra Stadium), he caught an awkward hit and broke his collarbone. He had a poor year, yes, but it was above all else a luckless season. He couldn;t get a break. He certainly has the talent to turn that around and he should be given every opportunity.

A good half can run the game without a dominant or fast 5/8, eg Johns with sean rudder, to blame John Morris for Tim and Jeremy Smith's form this year is a cop out. Morris was great in 05 and very solid in 06 while not being the fastest 5/8 his organising took a lot of pressure off our half, not to mention his defence,which while I think Finch will bring more options in attack Morris's defence will be missed.

 

[Ron Jeremy]

Correct, however Joey also had a forward pack going forward.

 

[Ron Jeremy]

Finch can tackle.

 

[1eyedeel]

A good half can run the game without a dominant or fast 5/8, eg Johns with sean rudder, to blame John Morris for Tim and Jeremy Smith's form this year is a cop out. Morris was great in 05 and very solid in 06 while not being the fastest 5/8 his organising took a lot of pressure off our half, not to mention his defence,which while I think Finch will bring more options in attack Morris's defence will be missed.

Andrew Johns isn't a good half, he's the best of all time. Jonathan Thurston has been struggling at club level for exactly the same reason and he's the current Aus halfback. But as Ron said combine that fact without a dominant forward pack and no half is going to impress, Johns included...