halves for next year?

[lingard]

Even in our poorer years under Brian Smith you could tell there was a structure; you could tell that he told the team, "Attack left," or, "Offload at will." Problem was we had no decent spine - McFadden, Paul Green, etc. at halfback, couple of average 5/8's (including Wags, who I adore AS A LOCK) and hookers that were just flat out average, so that it negated his tactics.

Our squads in 2010 and 2009 were fairly ordinary, too. But I, for one, didn't notice any genuine structure to the team in his two years at the helm. I even remember him saying something along those lines - that the team played best when they played ad lib footy.

Don't get me wrong - I like Ando, as a man and a coach. I am just asking the question.

That`s right. And Brian Smith`s recruitment and selection of players was at times mind-boggling. Clinton Shifkofski, being continually alternated between full back and wing, is released from the club and goes to Canberra, where he becomes one of the best club fullbacks in the game. And that mediocre spine. We were told that Smith had total control over recruitment/selection and we believed it. No board interference then. What`s different now? But you`re right; some of those sides were farly ordinary in different aspects, but there were still tactics, game-plans, etc.

 

[caylo]

That`s right. And Brian Smith`s recruitment and selection of players was at times mind-boggling. Clinton Shifkofski, being continually alternated between full back and wing, is released from the club and goes to Canberra, where he becomes one of the best club fullbacks in the game. And that mediocre spine. We were told that Smith had total control over recruitment/selection and we believed it. No board interference then. What`s different now?

for the last 16-17 years (since i can remember following parramatta) that have always tries to build a team and find someone that could do a job in the halves.

It worked with JT in 2001, Robson in 2009 but outside of that our coachs have always worried about the forward pack and back rather then developing a long term half, which is something Bennett did at brisbane and now at St George and Bellamy did at melbourne (irrespective of him blowing the cap).

I hope Kearney can find someone who can be hold a position there for years to come, whether that be Murray, Mortimer, Humble or Cooper we need some stability there rather then going after big name backs or forwards IMO.

 

[lingard]

Extremely unusual for a MAN very serious on discipline, someone not backward in saying the tough words and walking-the-talk, etc, NOT TO HAVE STRUCTURE in his psychological makeup... in fact those type of personalities are usually mega insistent on structures because they are very strong on discipline --- slanting more towards the "control freak" side of things... i.e. most superstars and champions, etc, are generally like this.

Exactly my point, Casper. The sort of control freak who would keep selecting Mortimer because he had a point to prove, etc. Anderson - a coach with a lot of incredibly good attributes, but a bloody-mindedness and an abrasive sort of personality that prevents him being one of the absolute top-tier coaches. That (in my opinion) is the most likely explanation. Shame, really. I also suspect that is why Brian Smith has never won a premiership - but that`s another story.

 

[lingard]

for the last 16-17 years (since i can remember following parramatta) that have always tries to build a team and find someone that could do a job in the halves.

It worked with JT in 2001, Robson in 2009 but outside of that our coachs have always worried about the forward pack and back rather then developing a long term half, which is something Bennett did at brisbane and now at St George and Bellamy did at melbourne (irrespective of him blowing the cap).

I hope Kearney can find someone who can be hold a position there for years to come, whether that be Murray, Mortimer, Humble or Cooper we need some stability there rather then going after big name backs or forwards IMO.

Yeah, it`s funny, isn`t it? It`s either a lack of foresight on the part of a series of coaches at our club, or it`s a long history of bad luck. John Simon and Jason Taylor are the only two decent half-backs we`ve had since Sterling. The rest were simply manufactured. Penna wasn`t a half. Neither was Drew, nor Bell. And that Cronulla player - I can never remember his name - absolutely brilliant five-eight. Brian Smith tried to make him a half-back. Didn`t work.

 

[lingard]

Caused by "others", maybe there is truth in the word "sabotage" !

Mark Latham knows all about the rug being pulled from under his feet (sabotage) and all his world crumbling in all around him.
He had plenty of bones pointing at those responsible.

I feel the comment from The Wise Old Eel above captures the most likely scenario of all our posturings and feelings, etc.

Just keep remembering what Jack Gibson indicated about how success always starts from the top/back office......
How either good will or bad will filters down to the coach, support staff and the players.

You mean 'the board' or 'the CEO' or '3P' told Anderson not to have any structure or any recognisable tactics? Or that they deliberately tried to 'sabotage' the Parramatta team in some way (Lord knows how they could do that. Did they put sleeping pills in Krisnan Inu`s Gatorade?)

 

[Wise Old Eel]

Firstly, I don`t think Anderson is a f**ked coach. Poor choice of words. I just meant, isn`t it remotely possible that Parramatta played so poorly last year because Anderson wasn`t up to scratch. As for the Mortimer selection: it seems as though people are speculating that the CEO or board or 'a contract' had something to do with it, simply because they can`t fathom why Anderson would continue to select Mortimer off his own bat. Something along the lines of: 'Anderson has a good record as a coach; the Mortimer selection was absurd; therefore Anderson couldn`t have done it.' Well, I suppose there`s a certain kind of logic there, but I don`t think it would stand up in court. "Your honour, my client is a model citizen; this murder would have been totally out of character for him; therefore he could not have committed it."
Anderson, apart from his coaching successes, has a record too. A reputation for being abrasive, for losing the respect of certain players. He was sacked by the Warriors administration not long after taking them to their first and only grand final. Why, I wonder?
You say that Anderson had nothing to do with the signing of Mortimer? Gee, I seem to remember him saying that Mortimer was the future of our club somewhere along the line. And as far as Mortimer`s contract guaranteeing that he would play first grade? I can understand such a contract being offered to Jonathon Thurston or Lockyer or Inglis or Hayne. But a rookie half who had only played half a season? That doesn`t make a lot of sense to me. IF the CEO or board did this, then they are outright stupid and deserve all criticism levelled at them. But if the coach stubbornly kept selecting him in order to prove a point, then he deserves that criticism. And remember, it was Anderson who announced that Mortimer would become a half-back in 2010. Do you really think a contract would stipulate that Mortimer would not only play first grade, but also half-back? It seems unlikely. It seems more likely that Anderson had chosen Mortimer as his pet project and blindly persisted with it, to the detriment of the whole team.
I rest my case, your honour. What do you think, Casper?
Oh, and by the way, just to show you guys that I don`t think Anderson is a 'f**ked coach'; I`m probably in the minority in thinking that his experiment with Hayne at five-eight was not a dismal failure. In fact, I think it was a master-stroke. It gave Hayne more involvement, made him fitter, probably improved his defense, and gave him a better understanding of what goes on closer to the ruck; so that when he was finally shifted back to fullback he was an infinitely better player than the one who had filled in there when Burt was injured the previous year. I think a lot of Hayne`s development as a player was due to Anderson. I just think Anderson also has a stubborn and bloody-minded side to his personality that gets in the way of him being a trully great coach.

Hi Lingard. Just quietly, I enjoy our little stoushes!

Isn't not being up to scratch just a different way of saying f**ked coach? :sarcasm:

I remember it differently. The way I remember it, it was Osborne lauding Mortimer as the future of Parramatta, not Anderson. The contract theory doesn't make any sense to any rational clear thinking individual but we are talking about Osborne here. It seemed he was so desperate to be in the limelight & impress his employers that he went off far too early. Purely because this kid's surname was Mortimer, he saw an opportunity to turn this into a "coup" of sorts (signing him before Canterbury did). You say putting a clause in a contract stipulating this young player of limited experience was guaranteed a first grade spot in the halves was unlikely. Hey, I wouldn't do it. But I also wouldn't come out and publically sprout he is "the future of Parramatta" either. The whole thing was a circus & despite my aversion to having Mortimer in the side, I really do feel for the guy. I wouldn't want to be in his shoes. I do, however, hope with all my heart he proves me wrong & has a great 2011.

Love your take on the Hayne at 6 scenario. I never thought about it that way before. Hayne definitely was a better player after that stint at 5/8.

WOE

 

[Eelementary]

That`s right. And Brian Smith`s recruitment and selection of players was at times mind-boggling. Clinton Shifkofski, being continually alternated between full back and wing, is released from the club and goes to Canberra, where he becomes one of the best club fullbacks in the game. And that mediocre spine. We were told that Smith had total control over recruitment/selection and we believed it. No board interference then. What`s different now? But you`re right; some of those sides were farly ordinary in different aspects, but there were still tactics, game-plans, etc.

Exactly.

I'm a Brian Smith fan - what he did for this club we all adore was great IMO. But sometimes his decisions were mind-boggling.

But you could always see structure and tactical gameplans at work, even though we had very ordinary cattle trying to pull them off.

But in 2009 and 2010, I can't honestly say I saw any semblance of tactics or structure. And the "we didn't have the players for it" line doesn't wash with me personally - we were no better or worse off than when we had McFadden at halfback, for instance, but at least with Macca at half we LOOKED organised, even if we couldn't win to save our skins.

 

[Eelementary]

Yeah, it`s funny, isn`t it? It`s either a lack of foresight on the part of a series of coaches at our club, or it`s a long history of bad luck. John Simon and Jason Taylor are the only two decent half-backs we`ve had since Sterling. The rest were simply manufactured. Penna wasn`t a half. Neither was Drew, nor Bell. And that Cronulla player - I can never remember his name - absolutely brilliant five-eight. Brian Smith tried to make him a half-back. Didn`t work.

Adam Dykes. I as so stoked when we signed him - he was incredible in 2001.

 

[yy_cheng]

But in 2009 and 2010, I can't honestly say I saw any semblance of tactics or structure. .

The only real tactic that I saw from DA was the Last game against Saints and the week after in 2009.

 

[yy_cheng]

I`m probably in the minority in thinking that his experiment with Hayne at five-eight was not a dismal failure. In fact, I think it was a master-stroke. It gave Hayne more involvement, made him fitter, probably improved his defense, and gave him a better understanding of what goes on closer to the ruck; so that when he was finally shifted back to fullback he was an infinitely better player than the one who had filled in there when.

Everyone who reads my post knows that I am for Hayne at 6. I can see that he will be a 6 and then 13 in the future.

I just can't see where we can go without Hayne at 6.

Our team has no other point of attack. No mateo (although he didn't do much in 2010), no more forwards passing at the line (B Smith, Horo, Poore, Fui, Mannah are not passers of the ball). What else. Hope that one of Mortz or Robson's play will come good. Or just do what we usually do and try and bomb.

Yeah, we have a plethora of POTENTIAL HALFBACKS but none are proven. Granted one might shine ala Tim Smith in 2005 but why not make that person's life easier with someone to take the helm at 6 in Hayne - our best ball player, kicker, runner.

Oh but we'll lose out on Hayne's magic at fullback. How many of those tries did he score? three in 2010? Nathan Gardner scored a great one and I recall Wade Mckinnon used to make breaks like that. Billy Slater can do that too. Alot of good fullbacks can. Didn't Chris Walker play fullback before? He would make a good kick returner.

Oh but he can pick and choose when to come in at 1. Well, that's the problem. When he doesn't come in, we have no idea, no direction, no hope. Hayne sees that and comes in anyway. Scotty prince gets alot of plays, so does Benji and Lockyer and Thurston. Yes Hayne has to gain this experience but he is as good as the above mentioned players or could be at 6.

And when Hayne is at 6, we get a fullback who can loiter around like all other fullbacks. We are missing that at the moment because Hayne does not loiter. He just want's to set up plays.


I don't care who we have at 7.

6. Hayne
7. Robson, Humble, Murray, Mortz.

As long as Hayne is the main playmaker and the 7 is an assistant.


Finally, I agree with Lingard. Hayne's time at 6 taught him alot of things.

 

[Casper The Ghost]

Firstly, I don`t think Anderson is a f**ked coach. Poor choice of words. I just meant, isn`t it remotely possible that Parramatta played so poorly last year because Anderson wasn`t up to scratch. As for the Mortimer selection: it seems as though people are speculating that the CEO or board or 'a contract' had something to do with it, simply because they can`t fathom why Anderson would continue to select Mortimer off his own bat. Something along the lines of: 'Anderson has a good record as a coach; the Mortimer selection was absurd; therefore Anderson couldn`t have done it.' Well, I suppose there`s a certain kind of logic there, but I don`t think it would stand up in court. "Your honour, my client is a model citizen; this murder would have been totally out of character for him; therefore he could not have committed it."
Anderson, apart from his coaching successes, has a record too. A reputation for being abrasive, for losing the respect of certain players. He was sacked by the Warriors administration not long after taking them to their first and only grand final. Why, I wonder?
You say that Anderson had nothing to do with the signing of Mortimer? Gee, I seem to remember him saying that Mortimer was the future of our club somewhere along the line. And as far as Mortimer`s contract guaranteeing that he would play first grade? I can understand such a contract being offered to Jonathon Thurston or Lockyer or Inglis or Hayne. But a rookie half who had only played half a season? That doesn`t make a lot of sense to me. IF the CEO or board did this, then they are outright stupid and deserve all criticism levelled at them. But if the coach stubbornly kept selecting him in order to prove a point, then he deserves that criticism. And remember, it was Anderson who announced that Mortimer would become a half-back in 2010. Do you really think a contract would stipulate that Mortimer would not only play first grade, but also half-back? It seems unlikely. It seems more likely that Anderson had chosen Mortimer as his pet project and blindly persisted with it, to the detriment of the whole team.
I rest my case, your honour. What do you think, Casper?
Oh, and by the way, just to show you guys that I don`t think Anderson is a 'f**ked coach'; I`m probably in the minority in thinking that his experiment with Hayne at five-eight was not a dismal failure. In fact, I think it was a master-stroke. It gave Hayne more involvement, made him fitter, probably improved his defense, and gave him a better understanding of what goes on closer to the ruck; so that when he was finally shifted back to fullback he was an infinitely better player than the one who had filled in there when Burt was injured the previous year. I think a lot of Hayne`s development as a player was due to Anderson. I just think Anderson also has a stubborn and bloody-minded side to his personality that gets in the way of him being a trully great coach.

You are entitled to your opinion Lingard and its valid and has merit. What you say is feasible but not more feasible as Owl's or mine. It seems we can't rule out each others argument which leaves it up to Daniel Anderson to clear the air. Will he ever do it, I have no idea, but if he does, we would all prefer it happened sooner rather than later. Your thoughts on Hayne at 6 are the same thoughts I shared last year. I thought it was a DA masterstroke. As for the courts, if I was defending DA I would approach the matter very differently because the judge will be forced to flee the court and the case will have no legs and will therefore be dismissed. If DA wanted me to help him take action against 3P, etc, I could not discuss those tactics here because it would be all done in the private.

 

[Casper The Ghost]

Exactly my point, Casper. The sort of control freak who would keep selecting Mortimer because he had a point to prove, etc. Anderson - a coach with a lot of incredibly good attributes, but a bloody-mindedness and an abrasive sort of personality that prevents him being one of the absolute top-tier coaches. That (in my opinion) is the most likely explanation. Shame, really. I also suspect that is why Brian Smith has never won a premiership - but that`s another story.

And DA has shown that he will address or dress down a player if required and I guess he would do it very quickly than let it stew for days or weeks or months. The only thing that would have stopped him wielding an axe would either be the contract (whatever was written in it) or he felt that there were no other long-term development options for a 7 and felt that Mortimer needed to do his apprenticeship in first grade to speed up the development. I don't think DA is any-mans fool - I really think he was between a rock and a hard place and his hands were tied, thanks to 3P & PO. His options were severely limited and restricted.

 

[Casper The Ghost]

You mean 'the board' or 'the CEO' or '3P' told Anderson not to have any structure or any recognisable tactics? Or that they deliberately tried to 'sabotage' the Parramatta team in some way (Lord knows how they could do that. Did they put sleeping pills in Krisnan Inu`s Gatorade?)

No I mean Santa Claus, he got stuck down the chimney and couldn't do his job bringing gifts to all concerned. If the players brains are not switched on, no game plan no matter how good or simple it is, will stick. The brains of many of the players were not on the ball/money. Why???? Do you really believe Daniel Anderson is solely responsible for the atmosphere conducive to messing with the players brains???? Come on...... he is a very successful coach with a phenomenal track record of success since leaving Brian Smith & the Eels. He would know messing with players brains to destabilise the whole squad would be committing suicide to his career. If he had full control and support from 3P, PO, etc, with no back doors, he would have changed the culture in the club/squad into his image ASAP and those not part of it would be axed. Daniel Anderson was not provided with the unconditional support to both start and finish the job of rebuilding the squad/club. He was left in the midst of doing the dirty work and 3P used this as one of the main excuses to get rid him. The foundations to the building site is all dirt but the builder was sacked for this, and the sacking stopped the builder from building the foundations. He was left with dirt on his hands. He was unable to poor the concrete and prepare the footings etc, so he could build the solid house upon a solid foundation in the image of the design (his making) he had drawn up.

 

[Joshuatheeel]

Adam Dykes. I as so stoked when we signed him - he was incredible in 2001.

so was I then he turned into a s*ft c**k, I cannot stand the mention of his name !!!!!

 

[Parra Pride]

According this it will be Robson/Mortimer in the halves:

PARRAMATTA will rely on the old pairing of Daniel Mortimer and Jeff Robson after negotiations with veteran halfback Matt Orford were terminated last week.

The Eels were considered short-priced favourites to sign Orford, who is eager to return to the NRL despite being contracted to English Super League club Bradford.

However, talks between Parramatta management and Orford were formally closed last Friday.

It would appear Canberra are now in the box seat to snare Orford. The Raiders are desperate to sign the former premiership-winning No. 7 as a replacement for injured skipper Terry Campese.

But in a further twist, The Sunday Telegraph has learned that Orford is considering sitting out the 2011 season and possibly playing with the Central Coast Bears in an expanded competition in 2012.

While the Eels were unwilling to wait any longer for a decision from Orford, as he strives to gain a release from Bradford, it is believed that instability at the Parramatta club over the past 18 months contributed to the 32-year-old's reluctance to sign on the dotted line.

Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar.

End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.

Either way, Orford joins a long miss-list of Eels targets - including retired veterans Trent Barrett and Brett Kimmorley, rugby union stars Quade Cooper and Craig Gower, and representative stars Cooper Cronk and Braith Anasta - to have knocked back the besieged club over the past six months.

New Eels coach Stephen Kearney spoke with Mortimer and Robson recently, telling them that the job of steering the club back to the finals was there next season if they wanted it.

Mortimer's father and former Canterbury legend Peter said it was up to Daniel to make the most of the opportunity offered by Kearney.

"Time will tell," Peter said of his son's ability to shine next season.

"I haven't spoken to Stephen Kearney, but everyone I've spoken to speaks very highly of him.

"So if he's made the decision to go with Daniel and Jeff, then they're going to have to perform up to his expectations.

"The ball is in both the boys' court now.

"I can see Daniel's attitude just in the last four weeks has been a little bit more driven."

 

[MrT]

Is this reporter an absolute moron?

" it is believed that instability at the Parramatta club over the past 18 months contributed to the 32-year-old's reluctance to sign on the dotted line."

uuummmmmmmmmmm I think the fact that he hasn't been released is the reason he hasn't signed ANYWHERE because he has an existing contract

 

[Wise Old Eel]

Is this reporter an absolute moron?

" it is believed that instability at the Parramatta club over the past 18 months contributed to the 32-year-old's reluctance to sign on the dotted line."

uuummmmmmmmmmm I think the fact that he hasn't been released is the reason he hasn't signed ANYWHERE because he has an existing contract

While it is true Orford technically is not yet a free agent, you must admit it could well have been a contributing factor to the plethora of halves this administration has failed to woo over the past few months.

WOE

 

[Eels Dude]

While it is true Orford technically is not yet a free agent, you must admit it could well have been a contributing factor to the plethora of halves this administration has failed to woo over the past few months.

WOE

The two players who chose to retire, the three who were still under contract with their current clubs, and the one who plays a difference code? Are those the halves you're referring to?

 

[Joshuatheeel]

Everyone who reads my post knows that I am for Hayne at 6. I can see that he will be a 6 and then 13 in the future.

I just can't see where we can go without Hayne at 6.

Our team has no other point of attack. No mateo (although he didn't do much in 2010), no more forwards passing at the line (B Smith, Horo, Poore, Fui, Mannah are not passers of the ball). What else. Hope that one of Mortz or Robson's play will come good. Or just do what we usually do and try and bomb.

Yeah, we have a plethora of POTENTIAL HALFBACKS but none are proven. Granted one might shine ala Tim Smith in 2005 but why not make that person's life easier with someone to take the helm at 6 in Hayne - our best ball player, kicker, runner.

Oh but we'll lose out on Hayne's magic at fullback. How many of those tries did he score? three in 2010? Nathan Gardner scored a great one and I recall Wade Mckinnon used to make breaks like that. Billy Slater can do that too. Alot of good fullbacks can. Didn't Chris Walker play fullback before? He would make a good kick returner.

Oh but he can pick and choose when to come in at 1. Well, that's the problem. When he doesn't come in, we have no idea, no direction, no hope. Hayne sees that and comes in anyway. Scotty prince gets alot of plays, so does Benji and Lockyer and Thurston. Yes Hayne has to gain this experience but he is as good as the above mentioned players or could be at 6.

And when Hayne is at 6, we get a fullback who can loiter around like all other fullbacks. We are missing that at the moment because Hayne does not loiter. He just want's to set up plays.


I don't care who we have at 7.

6. Hayne
7. Robson, Humble, Murray, Mortz.

As long as Hayne is the main playmaker and the 7 is an assistant.


Finally, I agree with Lingard. Hayne's time at 6 taught him alot of things.

While I have a open mind about moving Hayne to 5/8, one of the benefits is Burt could play fullback. The benefit with Burt at fullback is we gain another play maker and general kicker. He has a good kicking and passing game. This would give us two experienced players in Burt and Hayne in play making roles. We could structure some plays around both not just hayne

 

[Parra03]

Only Hayne can save us this season if he plays 6 else 2010 will be repeated!