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halves for next year?

cgee221

Juniors
Messages
782
OK. Yes, I have no “proof” but that’s why it’s called an opinion. I form my opinions by observations, not by blindly believing every quote I hear/read – which is usually used out of context to support the article being written. On the other side of the coin, can you “prove” there was no push on to get Anderson out? If you can prove this to me, then I will change my opinion. Of course, I am being facetious. We both know neither side can prove anything.

You make some good points – which are hard to argue with. “But his record with Parramatta was not great. Except for a nine week period where he really got that team firing, the rest was very ordinary.” Can’t argue with that. But I will remind you that pretty much everyone on this forum said at the start of Anderson’s tenure “if he avoids the wooden spoon this year, he will have done well”. No one expected anything in 2009. We all acknowledged we had an ordinary side & we accepted we were in for a struggling year. Anderson (that f**ked coach as you put it) realised this very early on but didn’t accept that was the way it had to be. His first move was to put Hayne at 6. We all scoffed at this & Hayne did struggle with it. But, as it turns out, Anderson was only seeing what may well be our future in years to come. He, this f**ked coach, saw very early on that Hayne was our only real marquee player. Of course, the no. 6 experiment failed. Anyway, Hayne really wanted to play his preferred position of fullback. Anderson went back to the drawing board. He decided we needed to play a different style of football if we were going to win games. He came up with a style where the halves played out in front of the forwards – something it appeared Brett Finch did not want to do & so was granted a release. He coupled this with lots of second phase play, creating space for the likes of Hayne to weave his magic. In other words, he saw our short comings & devised a plan to get the best out of what we had. It was unorthodox but it seemed to work for long enough to get us into the GF. You also have to remember that Anderson was hired by the previous administration. Early in 2009, once the new administration had come in, stories suddenly surfaced in the Telecrap about how Parramatta had made a mistake choosing Anderson as coach. And how they should have hired Stephen Kearney (a coincidence??). Yet, Anderson seemed to rise above all this. Call me crazy but that’s what a good coach does.

You bring up Daniel Mortimer & his continual selection as something Anderson should be taken to task for (not the board). OK. If it was purely Anderson’s decision then I agree with that assessment. But... if there is no “arrangement” to have Mortimer in the side, please explain why a coach of Anderson’s obvious ability & experience would continue to play a kid well out of his depth as a key member of the halves. And please explain Kearney’s recent public support of Mortimer in the halves even after the year Mortimer had in 2010. Remember, we struggled to score points this year. Our only real creativity came from Hayne – something the other teams had studied over the offseason & had devised plans to combat. Was Anderson really just that stubborn or was it something more to do with Mortimer’s contract? A contract Anderson (the coach) appears to have had nothing to do with (just like Tahu, coincidentally). If it were written in Mortimer’s contract that he was guaranteed a starting spot, then Anderson’s hands were tied and he was not simply bowing down to the board. This contract theory would go some way to explaining why Mortimer was “rested” & not “dropped” in 2010 as well. Surely, it couldn’t have been to save his confidence. Mortimer is supposedly so “tough”.

The other players you mention such Mateo, Mitchell and Keating (Matt) also pose questions. Perhaps, Mateo simply spat the dummy because the coach believed he was not delivering what he wanted. Who knows? I think it’s funny though, how the pro-Kearney crowd use such an example as Anderson’s inability to man-manage but, in the same breath, laude Kearney’s “toughness & no nonsense” approach as what this side needs. The Mitchell/Keating thing I admit has me buggered. I rate Anthony Mitchell well above Matt Keating in natural ability as a hooker. Can’t figure out what was going on there.

And lastly, [in my opinion] the situation with Hagan was different. Hagan inherited a very good team & turned it to sh!t. Anderson was given sh!t, squeezed what life he could out of it and then was not afforded the opportunity to rebuild the side into what he wanted over a few seasons. He over-achieved with a very average squad in his first year & paid the price because he couldn’t repeat the dose. If those 3 or 4 losses by small margins had been wins this year, he may well have done it again (speculation, of course).

In short, as said before, no one on this forum knows the “whole truth”. Anyone who claims they do is deluded. There are just too many grey areas for mine. Too many questions that have not been fully answered for me to accept the “official” version. We all watched this drama unfold & we all formed opinions of what we think happened. Obviously, some are happy to believe whatever they are told. That’s fair enough. I’m just not one of them.

Bring on 2011!

WOE

Brilliant post, great read WOE
 

cgee221

Juniors
Messages
782
I've said it before and I'll say it again.

I don't buy into other teams having such superior quality over other teams. There's only a small range between the level of quality in all the NRL squads.

Sure on paper, lots of teams look better than others, but at the end of the day it all comes down to pure desire and will. The team that is most mentally adapt to win the competition will be premiers. It's the case every year since sport's become professionalised and commercialized.

The team that really wants it, will win it and they'll find a way to win it.

The team all have to want it, and the right strategy has to be adopted and implemented by the coach and team to ensure success. It's the recipe to succeed at anything.

Desire + The Right Strategy + Action = Success

You will never fail at anything with the implementation of this mindset.
 

Far Canal

Juniors
Messages
495
SDM - your sarcasm is not well directed. Since when does a person's post history dictate whether their comments are accepted? How many posters with long post histories have aired rumours that were not substantiated.

I again ask the question, has anyone see Humble on the training paddock?
 

hybrideel

Bench
Messages
4,101
you may not have said that but a comment or wink you made in another thread makes me think that there is something going on and humble may be on his way out. I have absolutely nothing to back that up but now 2 separate people have mentioned his name in the context of not being here, which if true is a big mistake IMO

edit. wasn't quick enough. that comment was directed at Stagger
 
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Stagger eel

Moderator
Staff member
Messages
65,786
SDM - your sarcasm is not well directed. Since when does a person's post history dictate whether their comments are accepted? How many posters with long post histories have aired rumours that were not substantiated.

I again ask the question, has anyone see Humble on the training paddock?

how many open training sessions have club had recently?
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
57,233
With all due respect (and again, I will say I admire Ando), our 2009 season was on the back of our forwards muscling up ad Hayne hitting a purple patch of form the likes of which we've scarcely seen before.

IMO our forwards muscled up this year again (in fact, they played even better IMO) and Hayne, despite what many claim, was very good or us this year. So...What happened? A few things IMO:

* Teams aimed higher when they played us; it was seen as a coup to defeat the 2009 Grand Finalists (Grand Finalists that the league community felt bad for as they were defeated by cheats).

* IMO Anderson tried to use the same formula as he did in '09. It didn't work - he then tried to go away from that ad lib style and try to force naturally spontaneous players such as Mateo to play hard-nose, grinding footy. A good move IMO - except that Mateo is not exactly the most focused player around, and he struggled.

* Our halves did not improve one iota on 2009. The blame lies mostly on them, of course, but IMO the coach should be criticised, too - Mortimer and Robson seemed to actually go backwards in their development.

* From talking to a few players and fans and from watching tapes, I formed the opinion that there was an attitude issue present. The squad felt they were "owed" the 2010 Premiership and often played like it was going to happen anyway - I mean one of our main weaknesses in '09 was our pack, and we went and signed two representative forwards to bolster it. Surely going one step further than '09 with largely the same squad (dare I say, even improved in some areas) was a formality?

One can argue there are a multitude of factors as to why the Eels failed in 2010. Lack of quality cattle, boardroom-level in-fighting causing disruptions, players' attitudes not being up to scratch...But the one problem I have that I keep coming back to is the fact that the backbone of our squad didn't change from '09 to '10; we had the same key, core players and if anything, we bolstered our depth. But we played without heart, without aggression and, most importantly of all, without structure. I am a firm believer that Robson is average. However, I also believe that if he played to a rigid structure, he would succeed. In the end it appeared as though we were caught in the middle - half ad lib footy, half grinding footy.

Anderson is a great man and a very astute coach IMO. He has done great things in his career. He deserved at the very least an opportunity to try and build the side the way he saw fit. But I cannot see why we struggled so much under his tenure. True, we had average cattle in key positions. But we did in 2009, too, and said average cattle took us to within 7 points of our first title in nearly 30 years. Why was there such a discrepancy? And why was he unable to inspire the same sort of late run for us in '10 as he did in '09?

These questions remain unanswered IMO.

Anyway, Kearney is the new man and he'll likely choose Morts and Robbo IMO.
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
57,233
I've said it before and I'll say it again.

I don't buy into other teams having such superior quality over other teams. There's only a small range between the level of quality in all the NRL squads.

Sure on paper, lots of teams look better than others, but at the end of the day it all comes down to pure desire and will. The team that is most mentally adapt to win the competition will be premiers. It's the case every year since sport's become professionalised and commercialized.

The team that really wants it, will win it and they'll find a way to win it.

The team all have to want it, and the right strategy has to be adopted and implemented by the coach and team to ensure success. It's the recipe to succeed at anything.

Desire + The Right Strategy + Action = Success

You will never fail at anything with the implementation of this mindset.

Totally agree.

But who is supposed to implement all that? OK, your average professional football player SHOULD have that in-built desire to win. But if he struggles, the coach has to step up and instil it. Ditto with the strategy.
 

Far Canal

Juniors
Messages
495
Stagger - I don't know but I would throught they may have had a few already. I guess we will know in time and am pretty sure he won't be there in 2011.

Generally (as an aside )why does the Parra website still have pictures of Mateo, Inu ,Wright and K Keating as part of the team?
 

hybrideel

Bench
Messages
4,101
none of the player profiles have been updated since the start of the season. it still says in horo's, humble's and mitchell's profiles "yet to make debut"
 

cgee221

Juniors
Messages
782
Totally agree.

But who is supposed to implement all that? OK, your average professional football player SHOULD have that in-built desire to win. But if he struggles, the coach has to step up and instil it. Ditto with the strategy.

It's up to the leadership group (captain, experienced players, coaching staff et al.) to keep morale high and the 'state' of the team good, but I believe more so it's up to the individual players themselves to keep their mindset in check. If you don't have a high desire to compete hard and win every match, every little battle on the football field, then you shouldn't be playing First Grade IMO. The good news is, every one of our players has the ability to have this mindset.

As for the strategy that's the team and the coaching staff working together. Strategy A will beat Melbourne with these executed plays and style of defence, while strategy B will defeat St. George with this style of attack/defence.

Just aside from what you were saying Eelementary. We just make it a whole lot more difficult on ourselves then need be, and that's how all this stuff blows up out of proportion, people aren't on the same page as there's ineffective communication, no common goals and the wrong strategy is being adopted by the club (both team and administration).

We're just as capable of being premiers in 2011 as the other 15 teams are and just as capable of being premiers in 2011 as we have been since 1947. So far we've gotten it right on 4 occassions.
 

SDM

First Grade
Messages
7,600
SDM - your sarcasm is not well directed. Since when does a person's post history dictate whether their comments are accepted? How many posters with long post histories have aired rumours that were not substantiated.

I again ask the question, has anyone see Humble on the training paddock?


I agree with that. I just dont understand 1/2 rumours, if you have been told not to tell, why bother stating half of it?
 

Noise

Coach
Messages
18,183
SDM - I have been told by a reliable source but cannot detail it here as it will be removed. :D

Can you post it in 'Boxhead's' rumours thread. All rumours seem to be allowed to be posted there. I want to know what this Humble situation is!!
 

Casper The Ghost

First Grade
Messages
9,924
It's up to the leadership group (captain, experienced players, coaching staff et al.) to keep morale high and the 'state' of the team good, but I believe more so it's up to the individual players themselves to keep their mindset in check. If you don't have a high desire to compete hard and win every match, every little battle on the football field, then you shouldn't be playing First Grade IMO. The good news is, every one of our players has the ability to have this mindset.

As for the strategy that's the team and the coaching staff working together. Strategy A will beat Melbourne with these executed plays and style of defence, while strategy B will defeat St. George with this style of attack/defence.

Just aside from what you were saying Eelementary. We just make it a whole lot more difficult on ourselves then need be, and that's how all this stuff blows up out of proportion, people aren't on the same page as there's ineffective communication, no common goals and the wrong strategy is being adopted by the club (both team and administration).

We're just as capable of being premiers in 2011 as the other 15 teams are and just as capable of being premiers in 2011 as we have been since 1947. So far we've gotten it right on 4 occassions.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

I don't buy into other teams having such superior quality over other teams. There's only a small range between the level of quality in all the NRL squads.

Sure on paper, lots of teams look better than others, but at the end of the day it all comes down to pure desire and will. The team that is most mentally adapt to win the competition will be premiers. It's the case every year since sport's become professionalised and commercialized.

The team that really wants it, will win it and they'll find a way to win it.

The team all have to want it, and the right strategy has to be adopted and implemented by the coach and team to ensure success. It's the recipe to succeed at anything.

Desire + The Right Strategy + Action = Success

You will never fail at anything with the implementation of this mindset.


Good work there cgee221

Confidence is so fickle amongst a lot of players, just a slight variation means the difference between winning and losing.
There are so many variables that can effect confidence, just one or two or more of these variables effected the Eels 2010 squad and a good portion of the 2009 squad as well.

What were the variables that brought the Eels undone 2010??????

Watching that 2010 late season game at ANZ against the Rabbits had me totally and utterly dumbfounded wondering how a team with almost the same squad could get so close to winning the 2009 GF fall into a disorganised almost passionless rabble a year later.... :crazy::crazy::crazy:
 
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Casper The Ghost

First Grade
Messages
9,924
With all due respect (and again, I will say I admire Ando), our 2009 season was on the back of our forwards muscling up ad Hayne hitting a purple patch of form the likes of which we've scarcely seen before.

IMO our forwards muscled up this year again (in fact, they played even better IMO) and Hayne, despite what many claim, was very good or us this year. So...What happened? A few things IMO:

* Teams aimed higher when they played us; it was seen as a coup to defeat the 2009 Grand Finalists (Grand Finalists that the league community felt bad for as they were defeated by cheats).

* IMO Anderson tried to use the same formula as he did in '09. It didn't work - he then tried to go away from that ad lib style and try to force naturally spontaneous players such as Mateo to play hard-nose, grinding footy. A good move IMO - except that Mateo is not exactly the most focused player around, and he struggled.

* Our halves did not improve one iota on 2009. The blame lies mostly on them, of course, but IMO the coach should be criticised, too - Mortimer and Robson seemed to actually go backwards in their development.

* From talking to a few players and fans and from watching tapes, I formed the opinion that there was an attitude issue present. The squad felt they were "owed" the 2010 Premiership and often played like it was going to happen anyway - I mean one of our main weaknesses in '09 was our pack, and we went and signed two representative forwards to bolster it. Surely going one step further than '09 with largely the same squad (dare I say, even improved in some areas) was a formality?

One can argue there are a multitude of factors as to why the Eels failed in 2010. Lack of quality cattle, boardroom-level in-fighting causing disruptions, players' attitudes not being up to scratch...But the one problem I have that I keep coming back to is the fact that the backbone of our squad didn't change from '09 to '10; we had the same key, core players and if anything, we bolstered our depth. But we played without heart, without aggression and, most importantly of all, without structure. I am a firm believer that Robson is average. However, I also believe that if he played to a rigid structure, he would succeed. In the end it appeared as though we were caught in the middle - half ad lib footy, half grinding footy.

Anderson is a great man and a very astute coach IMO. He has done great things in his career. He deserved at the very least an opportunity to try and build the side the way he saw fit. But I cannot see why we struggled so much under his tenure. True, we had average cattle in key positions. But we did in 2009, too, and said average cattle took us to within 7 points of our first title in nearly 30 years. Why was there such a discrepancy? And why was he unable to inspire the same sort of late run for us in '10 as he did in '09?

These questions remain unanswered IMO.

Anyway, Kearney is the new man and he'll likely choose Morts and Robbo IMO.

Whatever the tinkering was, it has obviously effected the dynamics of the 2009 and 2010 squad.
Having been in business for 20 years and having employed 30+ staff levels I have gained enough experience to be able to observe from a distance how tinkering can bring staff moral crashing and provides clues/indicators as to the cause.
Though I may be very wrong I still don't see how such a strong man in Daniel Anderson would willingly seek to destroy the confidence amongst his squad just for the sake of doing so. To my way of thinking I see a tough disciplined operator in the midst of changing the culture of the squad/club into his image, a bastard of a job.
He seemed to have a take no prisoners approach to the restructure of the culture.
It seems that Daniel Anderson was being thwarted by a few players, officials, staff and he was most definitely not supported unconditionally by 3P and their lackey Paul Osborne.
Just my opinion.....

Refer to Wise Old Eel's excellent appraisal as it embraces the most likely scenario I have been feeling since all this crap burst to the surface.
 

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