What's new
The Front Row Forums

Register a free account today to become a member of the world's largest Rugby League discussion forum! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

halves for next year?

Casper The Ghost

First Grade
Messages
9,924
Why? Because it's your opinion as well?

It may or may not be mine, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it's the "most likely scenario" as you put it.
As WOE said, "None of us will ever know the truth."

Suity

I agree with you.

Did you have a nice day? :)
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
11,424
Whatever the tinkering was, it has obviously effected the dynamics of the 2009 and 2010 squad.
Having been in business for 20 years and having employed 30+ staff levels I have gained enough experience to be able to observe from a distance how tinkering can bring staff moral crashing and provides clues/indicators as to the cause.
Though I may be very wrong I still don't see how such a strong man in Daniel Anderson would willingly seek to destroy the confidence amongst his squad just for the sake of doing so. To my way of thinking I see a tough disciplined operator in the midst of changing the culture of the squad/club into his image, a bastard of a job.
He seemed to have a take no prisoners approach to the restructure of the culture.
It seems that Daniel Anderson was being thwarted by a few players, officials, staff and he was most definitely not supported unconditionally by 3P and their lackey Paul Osborne.
Just my opinion.....

Refer to Wise Old Eel's excellent appraisal as it embraces the most likely scenario I have been feeling since all this crap burst to the surface.


I agree with your summation of Daniel Anderson`s character. That is why I find it so hard to believe he would allow a board or CEO to dictate the selection of a player.
 

boxhead

First Grade
Messages
5,958
If it's any worth someone claims that Brad Murray is being looked at as a strong contender for the starting number 7. Mind you, I won't comment on this source or their reputability.
The key aspects they highlighted was that the training staff were very impressed with his kicking skills, and also his attitude at training is really positive - he is one of the most impressive and hardest working at training, supposedly.
 

boxhead

First Grade
Messages
5,958
In fact I've seen reports from differing sources that the favoured halves combination in the eyes of the coaching staff at present is 7 Brad Murray 6 Daniel Mortimer. And no I did not solely draw on the other site for this news.

Thoughts? With the type of grinding footy that Kearney wants to play - a similar style to the Dragons - it may be a lot easier to introduce Murray into the game.
Of course, this could be untrue so don't take it like it's gospel. Thanks guys :)
 

Eels Dude

Coach
Messages
19,065
Please let's not speculate on who Kearney will plonk into the number 7 jersey for round one next year, we can worry about that in 3 months time...
 

True EEL

Bench
Messages
4,857
Please let's not speculate on who Kearney will plonk into the number 7 jersey for round one next year, we can worry about that in 3 months time...

that's a fair call, but i thought Murray was a good kid the first and only time i saw him play - if they think he's ready....who knows?
 

caylo

Bench
Messages
4,870
In fact I've seen reports from differing sources that the favoured halves combination in the eyes of the coaching staff at present is 7 Brad Murray 6 Daniel Mortimer. And no I did not solely draw on the other site for this news.

Thoughts? With the type of grinding footy that Kearney wants to play - a similar style to the Dragons - it may be a lot easier to introduce Murray into the game.
Of course, this could be untrue so don't take it like it's gospel. Thanks guys :)


I do hope that Mortimer improves his passing game, even if his kicking skills dont improve his kicking game will improve with less pressure. He would be a good fold for Murry if he could improve that aspect of his game but if he doesn't IMO humble is the better option if he is still around.

Murray (like T.Smith in 2005) has the skills but the inexperiance and its a 50-50 call to play him and i don't think you can critise either choice. I also think Murray-Maguire would be worth a try if you decide to go down the tract of playing Murray.
 

Eels Dude

Coach
Messages
19,065
Does anyone who watches the ESL even know if Casey Maguire is up to NRL level anymore???? 4 Years out of the game is a long time for a 31 year old especially one who was mainly just a benchwarmer throughout of his NRL career.
 

boxhead

First Grade
Messages
5,958
From what I've seen of him he would do alright as a rotating hooker, starting or off the bench, depending on who plays out of Matt Keating and Anthony Mitchell.
 

boxhead

First Grade
Messages
5,958
The good thing is that we have a lot of options, it comes down to who impresses the most over the pre-season I guess. Robbo, Mcguire, Mortimer, Humble, Murray and so on all have a chance to play in the starting halves if they put in the hard work.
 

Casper The Ghost

First Grade
Messages
9,924
I agree with your summation of Daniel Anderson`s character. That is why I find it so hard to believe he would allow a board or CEO to dictate the selection of a player.

It could all be in the contract Lingard......
Look forward to that day when it's revealed what was written into Daniel Mortimers contract!!!
Did Daniel Anderson have anything to do with the making of this contract???
Only time will tell.

From my perspective The Wise Eel covered the most important concerns very well.
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
57,233
Whatever the tinkering was, it has obviously effected the dynamics of the 2009 and 2010 squad.
Having been in business for 20 years and having employed 30+ staff levels I have gained enough experience to be able to observe from a distance how tinkering can bring staff moral crashing and provides clues/indicators as to the cause.
Though I may be very wrong I still don't see how such a strong man in Daniel Anderson would willingly seek to destroy the confidence amongst his squad just for the sake of doing so. To my way of thinking I see a tough disciplined operator in the midst of changing the culture of the squad/club into his image, a bastard of a job.
He seemed to have a take no prisoners approach to the restructure of the culture.
It seems that Daniel Anderson was being thwarted by a few players, officials, staff and he was most definitely not supported unconditionally by 3P and their lackey Paul Osborne.
Just my opinion.....

Refer to Wise Old Eel's excellent appraisal as it embraces the most likely scenario I have been feeling since all this crap burst to the surface.

I read WOE's post and, whilst I felt it was well thought out and very well-written, I, personally, didn't feel that it answered any questions for me.

I do realise that there will always be speculation as to the answers, because unless Ando comes out himself and says what happened we will never know. But to me, something about the whole situation doesn't seem right.
 

Eelementary

Post Whore
Messages
57,233
It's up to the leadership group (captain, experienced players, coaching staff et al.) to keep morale high and the 'state' of the team good, but I believe more so it's up to the individual players themselves to keep their mindset in check. If you don't have a high desire to compete hard and win every match, every little battle on the football field, then you shouldn't be playing First Grade IMO. The good news is, every one of our players has the ability to have this mindset.

As for the strategy that's the team and the coaching staff working together. Strategy A will beat Melbourne with these executed plays and style of defence, while strategy B will defeat St. George with this style of attack/defence.

Just aside from what you were saying Eelementary. We just make it a whole lot more difficult on ourselves then need be, and that's how all this stuff blows up out of proportion, people aren't on the same page as there's ineffective communication, no common goals and the wrong strategy is being adopted by the club (both team and administration).

We're just as capable of being premiers in 2011 as the other 15 teams are and just as capable of being premiers in 2011 as we have been since 1947. So far we've gotten it right on 4 occassions.

I agree with you, mate.

And I, too, think this club has a nasty habit of making life difficult for itself. I'm not sure what the reason is, but I have sensed it too.
 

yy_cheng

Coach
Messages
18,734
All the players that have been coached by Wayne Bennett and asked what does he say, they all answer, he keeeps it simple, gives you a job, and helps you make sure you complete your job.
 

Casper The Ghost

First Grade
Messages
9,924
I agree with you, mate.

And I, too, think this club has a nasty habit of making life difficult for itself. I'm not sure what the reason is, but I have sensed it too.

I read WOE's post and, whilst I felt it was well thought out and very well-written, I, personally, didn't feel that it answered any questions for me.

I do realise that there will always be speculation as to the answers, because unless Ando comes out himself and says what happened we will never know. But to me, something about the whole situation doesn't seem right.

All the players that have been coached by Wayne Bennett and asked what does he say, they all answer, he keeeps it simple, gives you a job, and helps you make sure you complete your job.

Lets see if the truth all comes out in the wash whenever that happens.
I agree, things just don't sit right .
 

coasty78

Juniors
Messages
5
Hi all, havent posted for a while but i thought id get in on the action. This is what i think is our strongest and most stable lineup:-
1. Hayne
2. Burt
3. Reddy
4. Tahu
5. Grothe
6. Robson
7. Mortimer
8. Mannah
9. M Keating
10. Moi Moi
11. Hindmarsh
12. Smith
13. Horo (switch to Maitua when available)

14. Poore
15. Webb
16. C McGuire
17. Shakleton

J Atkins
M Manuakafoa
A Mitchell
S Shakleton
C Walker
E Folau

I dont think we should consider bringing in too many new young players, they just havent developed well enough to cut it week in week out. A stable team each week with few changes and training that drills combinations with players in the existing team will work best. You only have to see the Storm over the past few years at how well drilled they are with a regular set of 1,6,7,9...these drills are vital if we are to show our attacking potential rather than waiting for broken play to ignite us.
 

lingard

Coach
Messages
11,424
OK. Yes, I have no “proof” but that’s why it’s called an opinion. I form my opinions by observations, not by blindly believing every quote I hear/read – which is usually used out of context to support the article being written. On the other side of the coin, can you “prove” there was no push on to get Anderson out? If you can prove this to me, then I will change my opinion. Of course, I am being facetious. We both know neither side can prove anything.

You make some good points – which are hard to argue with. “But his record with Parramatta was not great. Except for a nine week period where he really got that team firing, the rest was very ordinary.” Can’t argue with that. But I will remind you that pretty much everyone on this forum said at the start of Anderson’s tenure “if he avoids the wooden spoon this year, he will have done well”. No one expected anything in 2009. We all acknowledged we had an ordinary side & we accepted we were in for a struggling year. Anderson (that f**ked coach as you put it) realised this very early on but didn’t accept that was the way it had to be. His first move was to put Hayne at 6. We all scoffed at this & Hayne did struggle with it. But, as it turns out, Anderson was only seeing what may well be our future in years to come. He, this f**ked coach, saw very early on that Hayne was our only real marquee player. Of course, the no. 6 experiment failed. Anyway, Hayne really wanted to play his preferred position of fullback. Anderson went back to the drawing board. He decided we needed to play a different style of football if we were going to win games. He came up with a style where the halves played out in front of the forwards – something it appeared Brett Finch did not want to do & so was granted a release. He coupled this with lots of second phase play, creating space for the likes of Hayne to weave his magic. In other words, he saw our short comings & devised a plan to get the best out of what we had. It was unorthodox but it seemed to work for long enough to get us into the GF. You also have to remember that Anderson was hired by the previous administration. Early in 2009, once the new administration had come in, stories suddenly surfaced in the Telecrap about how Parramatta had made a mistake choosing Anderson as coach. And how they should have hired Stephen Kearney (a coincidence??). Yet, Anderson seemed to rise above all this. Call me crazy but that’s what a good coach does.

You bring up Daniel Mortimer & his continual selection as something Anderson should be taken to task for (not the board). OK. If it was purely Anderson’s decision then I agree with that assessment. But... if there is no “arrangement” to have Mortimer in the side, please explain why a coach of Anderson’s obvious ability & experience would continue to play a kid well out of his depth as a key member of the halves. And please explain Kearney’s recent public support of Mortimer in the halves even after the year Mortimer had in 2010. Remember, we struggled to score points this year. Our only real creativity came from Hayne – something the other teams had studied over the offseason & had devised plans to combat. Was Anderson really just that stubborn or was it something more to do with Mortimer’s contract? A contract Anderson (the coach) appears to have had nothing to do with (just like Tahu, coincidentally). If it were written in Mortimer’s contract that he was guaranteed a starting spot, then Anderson’s hands were tied and he was not simply bowing down to the board. This contract theory would go some way to explaining why Mortimer was “rested” & not “dropped” in 2010 as well. Surely, it couldn’t have been to save his confidence. Mortimer is supposedly so “tough”.

The other players you mention such Mateo, Mitchell and Keating (Matt) also pose questions. Perhaps, Mateo simply spat the dummy because the coach believed he was not delivering what he wanted. Who knows? I think it’s funny though, how the pro-Kearney crowd use such an example as Anderson’s inability to man-manage but, in the same breath, laude Kearney’s “toughness & no nonsense” approach as what this side needs. The Mitchell/Keating thing I admit has me buggered. I rate Anthony Mitchell well above Matt Keating in natural ability as a hooker. Can’t figure out what was going on there.

And lastly, [in my opinion] the situation with Hagan was different. Hagan inherited a very good team & turned it to sh!t. Anderson was given sh!t, squeezed what life he could out of it and then was not afforded the opportunity to rebuild the side into what he wanted over a few seasons. He over-achieved with a very average squad in his first year & paid the price because he couldn’t repeat the dose. If those 3 or 4 losses by small margins had been wins this year, he may well have done it again (speculation, of course).

In short, as said before, no one on this forum knows the “whole truth”. Anyone who claims they do is deluded. There are just too many grey areas for mine. Too many questions that have not been fully answered for me to accept the “official” version. We all watched this drama unfold & we all formed opinions of what we think happened. Obviously, some are happy to believe whatever they are told. That’s fair enough. I’m just not one of them.

Bring on 2011!

WOE


Firstly, I don`t think Anderson is a f**ked coach. Poor choice of words. I just meant, isn`t it remotely possible that Parramatta played so poorly last year because Anderson wasn`t up to scratch. As for the Mortimer selection: it seems as though people are speculating that the CEO or board or 'a contract' had something to do with it, simply because they can`t fathom why Anderson would continue to select Mortimer off his own bat. Something along the lines of: 'Anderson has a good record as a coach; the Mortimer selection was absurd; therefore Anderson couldn`t have done it.' Well, I suppose there`s a certain kind of logic there, but I don`t think it would stand up in court. "Your honour, my client is a model citizen; this murder would have been totally out of character for him; therefore he could not have committed it."
Anderson, apart from his coaching successes, has a record too. A reputation for being abrasive, for losing the respect of certain players. He was sacked by the Warriors administration not long after taking them to their first and only grand final. Why, I wonder?
You say that Anderson had nothing to do with the signing of Mortimer? Gee, I seem to remember him saying that Mortimer was the future of our club somewhere along the line. And as far as Mortimer`s contract guaranteeing that he would play first grade? I can understand such a contract being offered to Jonathon Thurston or Lockyer or Inglis or Hayne. But a rookie half who had only played half a season? That doesn`t make a lot of sense to me. IF the CEO or board did this, then they are outright stupid and deserve all criticism levelled at them. But if the coach stubbornly kept selecting him in order to prove a point, then he deserves that criticism. And remember, it was Anderson who announced that Mortimer would become a half-back in 2010. Do you really think a contract would stipulate that Mortimer would not only play first grade, but also half-back? It seems unlikely. It seems more likely that Anderson had chosen Mortimer as his pet project and blindly persisted with it, to the detriment of the whole team.
I rest my case, your honour. What do you think, Casper? :)
Oh, and by the way, just to show you guys that I don`t think Anderson is a 'f**ked coach'; I`m probably in the minority in thinking that his experiment with Hayne at five-eight was not a dismal failure. In fact, I think it was a master-stroke. It gave Hayne more involvement, made him fitter, probably improved his defense, and gave him a better understanding of what goes on closer to the ruck; so that when he was finally shifted back to fullback he was an infinitely better player than the one who had filled in there when Burt was injured the previous year. I think a lot of Hayne`s development as a player was due to Anderson. I just think Anderson also has a stubborn and bloody-minded side to his personality that gets in the way of him being a trully great coach.
 
Last edited:

Latest posts

Top