Harry Siejka

[twinkletoes]

If the Holden Cup side and the Cutters were killing it in their comps, there might be some merit to the whole 'give the younguns a go' ranting. But they aren't. Both teams are struggling in their own comps, against oppositions of similar ilk, age and levels of experience. The Cutters are currently 10th (of 13) with 6 wins and 9 losses, the 20's are 11th (of 16) with 6W and 8L.

There are no players making an impact. There are no standout performers. There are no players demanding they be picked at the next level. There are no players performing at a level vastly superior to their peers. In short, there are no players demonstrating that they are obviously NRL level ready. Players signed on the potential, or even 'hope', like Drinkwater, haven't stepped up and demonstrated the requisite skill development required.

The wholesale changes mooted won't help the NRL side, and nor will it necessarily help the development of the players involved. It's a panic response, not a well thought out and reasoned strategy as some seem to think.

It's a tired, well worn and old catch cry. Beau Henry, Matt Mundine etc, etc, etc. It's been called for before and usually shown in hindsight to be have been justifiably avoided. The blokes currently in charge, whether people like it or agree with it or not, are the ones best placed and with the requisite levels of experience required to make the calls.

I'll say it again, and people will disagree with me again. It's about cattle. That's it. Halves, centres, a prop or two. By my reckoning, only Widdop falls into the category of quality signed for next year to fill those voids at this stage. The rest are adequate or fringe. Time will tell whether they can improve on a personal level to be more than that, but I'm not over enthused by what I'm seeing thus far.

On Siejka, I have no great expectation of seeing him rushed into first grade unless his performances scream out 'Pick Me'. He could just be an 'in case' signing to cover Fien for this season, given that there is no one else deemed suitable if it came to be. The sad reality is we just lack quality paople in critical playing positions. No improvement until that changes.

Absolutely ridiculous attitude...so you are content to let things just keep going as they are this season without trying anything new or different. Seems like the same attitude the coach has...which is exactly why we are on the bottom of the ladder.

When you run a business if certain strategies don't work out you try different strategies to try and make the company more profitable. That's what good managers get paid to do.

Such a defeatist attitude to say we don't have anyone better so just keeps things as they are....try something to see if it will work.

 

[FundyDragon]

If the Holden Cup side and the Cutters were killing it in their comps, there might be some merit to the whole 'give the younguns a go' ranting. But they aren't. Both teams are struggling in their own comps, against oppositions of similar ilk, age and levels of experience. The Cutters are currently 10th (of 13) with 6 wins and 9 losses, the 20's are 11th (of 16) with 6W and 8L.

There are no players making an impact. There are no standout performers. There are no players demanding they be picked at the next level. There are no players performing at a level vastly superior to their peers. In short, there are no players demonstrating that they are obviously NRL level ready. Players signed on the potential, or even 'hope', like Drinkwater, haven't stepped up and demonstrated the requisite skill development required.

The wholesale changes mooted won't help the NRL side, and nor will it necessarily help the development of the players involved. It's a panic response, not a well thought out and reasoned strategy as some seem to think.

It's a tired, well worn and old catch cry. Beau Henry, Matt Mundine etc, etc, etc. It's been called for before and usually shown in hindsight to be have been justifiably avoided. The blokes currently in charge, whether people like it or agree with it or not, are the ones best placed and with the requisite levels of experience required to make the calls.

I'll say it again, and people will disagree with me again. It's about cattle. That's it. Halves, centres, a prop or two. By my reckoning, only Widdop falls into the category of quality signed for next year to fill those voids at this stage. The rest are adequate or fringe. Time will tell whether they can improve on a personal level to be more than that, but I'm not over enthused by what I'm seeing thus far.

On Siejka, I have no great expectation of seeing him rushed into first grade unless his performances scream out 'Pick Me'. He could just be an 'in case' signing to cover Fien for this season, given that there is no one else deemed suitable if it came to be. The sad reality is we just lack quality people in critical playing positions. No improvement until that changes.

You make a lot of good sense here bottle unfortunately we have so many negative people of this forum who struggle to accept we are not top 8 material this year. We went through a 30 year drought, then win the comp less than 3 years ago and still so many are disillusioned. I trust that our club IS making the right decisions.

 

[bottle]

No, you're right twinkles. Ridiculous and defeatist. So you've run a business, yeah?
And if things weren't going the way you liked you sacked the managers and put the shelf packers in to run the show?
How'd that work out? How was the bankruptcy proceeding?

Simplistic drivel.

 

[Dezziedc]

Not necessarily. Some simply won't make it regardless. That is a simple statistical truth.
He has a proven record of bringing on kids already in his previous coaching gigs. Many of the blokes playing NRL in our team today have played under him in the past.

I don't know that Price isn't a 'decent coach' yet. When he gets a competitive squad I'll be in a better position to make a call. Plenty won't like my position on that, and call me a 'Price lover' as a consequence. I just want to make a call based on him having a fighting chance, which he hasn't yet imo. I'm not yet over enthused by the sqaud for next year either btw.

I have said the same thing many times in other posts. This approach of blooding the young players now is fraught with danger. Sure it works sometimes, but only for those that are showing some real talent.

I have no doubt that some of these kids have genuine skills. But as has been mentioned a couple of posts back, the game level steps up a few notches between U20s, Cutters and NRL. Its a massive jump between the levels. I don't think you achieve anything by throwing them in the deep end unless they are outstanding talents. And from what I can tell, none of our 'talented' group are stepping up.

Price may not be doing everything right, but I am reluctant to shoot him down at this moment in time. He needs quality players in the right positions before I can judge his performance. And at the moment, he just doesn't have those quality players available to him.

 

[twinkletoes]

No, you're right twinkles. Ridiculous and defeatist. So you've run a business, yeah?
And if things weren't going the way you liked you sacked the managers and put the shelf packers in to run the show?
How'd that work out? How was the bankruptcy proceeding?

Simplistic drivel.

The only problem is, and we are hearing it more and more at the club is that while you are waiting for the young players "shelf packers" to mature, they will be poached by other clubs and we will not get the benefit of the years of investment the club has put in. We are hearing now about Quinlan, Cummins, Hastings and some others all being approached by other clubs and even seeking releases themselves. The young guys need to know there is an opportunity waiting for them..

 

[Mr Red]

Many of the blokes playing NRL in our team today have played under him in the past.

i think those that have made first grade are despite playing under Price in the past, i dont really think playing under him was the clincher.

I don't know that Price isn't a 'decent coach' yet.

When he gets a competitive squad I'll be in a better position to make a call. Plenty won't like my position on that, and call me a 'Price lover' as a consequence. I just want to make a call based on him having a fighting chance, which he hasn't yet imo. I'm not yet over enthused by the sqaud for next year either btw.

fair enough, no harm in taking that position.. personally i feel i have seen enough of Price already to know what he is capable of, regardless of the squad. Even our capable players have gone backwards under him, and after nearly 2 seasons in charge the team cant even string together one simple attacking move..
i agree we still need a few players for next season, especially a half... so surely Price as coach will be across that in order to ensure he gives the club (and himself) the best opportunity to be successfull.... or will he???

 

[Dr Fruitbasket Returns]

Absolutely ridiculous attitude...so you are content to let things just keep going as they are this season without trying anything new or different. Seems like the same attitude the coach has...which is exactly why we are on the bottom of the ladder.

When you run a business if certain strategies don't work out you try different strategies to try and make the company more profitable. That's what good managers get paid to do.

Such a defeatist attitude to say we don't have anyone better so just keeps things as they are....try something to see if it will work.

Dude, the only qualifier I'd add to your comments is that we're third from the bottom of the ladder. Which is depressing. But with a whole bunch of green amateurs thrown in we could easily be two spots worse off. Our squad going into 2013 was shite. The worst I've seen since the late 80s. A spoon contending squad. And when you're that bad actually getting to second last or third last is an achievement.

We've inherited the Steelers's spoons. And we've got to cop that. But since following Saints since 1976 I've never experienced the personal devastation and humiliation of an actual spoon for St George. I've watched a lot of shit including 0-61, 10-70 and 6-54. But no actual spoon. We may still get one with Fien and (FFS) Stanley at five eighth. Definitely possible. Fien's game but he's not a first grade halfback any more and Stanley's rubbish. But we'd be nailed on for one with Drinkwater at half and Quinlan at five eighth.

 

[bottle]

i think those that have made first grade are despite playing under Price in the past, i dont really think playing under him was the clincher.

I'm not saying he made them first graders, I'm saying he has a record of bringing on young players. You alluded to the view that a better coach would be able to demonstrate that attribute.

 

[bottle]

The only problem is, and we are hearing it more and more at the club is that while you are waiting for the young players "shelf packers" to mature, they will be poached by other clubs and we will not get the benefit of the years of investment the club has put in. We are hearing now about Quinlan, Cummins, Hastings and some others all being approached by other clubs and even seeking releases themselves. The young guys need to know there is an opportunity waiting for them..

Sure, but it happens.

Under Bennett we lost Beau Henry and Leilua because he wouldn't give them guarantees of a fast track to first grade.
Their losses were lamented and bemoaned. They were the next superstars.
Both are now playing for their third clubs and are yet to make a consistent, if any, impact.

Keep watching the game and you'll see a lot more of it in the future. Picking which players will transition successfully is a skill which many are convinced they have, but which few if any actually possess. Chucking them into the top grade just to try and keep them is a poor strategy and bound to bring disaster all round.

 

[jenninga]

Not necessarily. Some simply won't make it regardless. That is a simple statistical truth.
He has a proven record of bringing on kids already in his previous coaching gigs. Many of the blokes playing NRL in our team today have played under him in the past.

I don't know that Price isn't a 'decent coach' yet. When he gets a competitive squad I'll be in a better position to make a call. Plenty won't like my position on that, and call me a 'Price lover' as a consequence. I just want to make a call based on him having a fighting chance, which he hasn't yet imo. I'm not yet over enthused by the sqaud for next year either btw.

The squad next season has potential,but we still need a decent 7 and a dominating big prop.Beale should slot in the centres with Farrell,gtives us more mobilty and a chance for our wingers to have more scoring opportunities.
A big problem for me is discipline which we rarely had to worry about under Bennett, stupid penalties and turnover of possession.Hunt,one of the main culprits.
Price needs to address this.

 

[Dezziedc]

Sure, but it happens.

Under Bennett we lost Beau Henry and Leilua because he wouldn't give them guarantees of a fast track to first grade.
Their losses were lamented and bemoaned. They were the next superstars.
Both are now playing for their third clubs and are yet to make a consistent, if any, impact.

Keep watching the game and you'll see a lot more of it in the future. Picking which players will transition successfully is a skill which many are convinced they have, but which few if any actually possess. Chucking them into the top grade just to try and keep them is a poor strategy and bound to bring disaster all round.

Another great example is Drinkwater. Manly raved about this guy as did we when we signed him up. Where has that gone? He was touted as a real buy - but he hasn't proven himself in the Cutters - why would we throw him into NRL if he can't make it in the lower grades yet?

I just don't think we have the depth everyone thinks we have at the moment.

 

[jenninga]

The only problem is, and we are hearing it more and more at the club is that while you are waiting for the young players "shelf packers" to mature, they will be poached by other clubs and we will not get the benefit of the years of investment the club has put in. We are hearing now about Quinlan, Cummins, Hastings and some others all being approached by other clubs and even seeking releases themselves. The young guys need to know there is an opportunity waiting for them..

The 20's are down the bottom ,the Cutters at times have been average,our young players are hardly the best in the comp.We don't need to role out the red carpet for them and if they don't want to earn their way to 1st grade then stuff them.There are players in other u20's who have the same issues so it's not just our club.

 

[bottle]

The squad next season has potential,but we still need a decent 7 and a dominating big prop.Beale should slot in the centres with Farrell,gtives us more mobilty and a chance for our wingers to have more scoring opportunities.
A big problem for me is discipline which we rarely had to worry about under Bennett, stupid penalties and turnover of possession.Hunt,one of the main culprits.
Price needs to address this.

Agree with all of this. Discipline was the most obvious initial improvement under Bennett.
Still have concerns over the centres. Although they seem like the obvious first choices, neither were starting centres for their previous clubs.

 

[possm]

Sure, but it happens.

Under Bennett we lost Beau Henry and Leilua because he wouldn't give them guarantees of a fast track to first grade.
Their losses were lamented and bemoaned. They were the next superstars.
Both are now playing for their third clubs and are yet to make a consistent, if any, impact.

Keep watching the game and you'll see a lot more of it in the future. Picking which players will transition successfully is a skill which many are convinced they have, but which few if any actually possess. Chucking them into the top grade just to try and keep them is a poor strategy and bound to bring disaster all round.

For two seasons now, we have had Price in charge. We have recruited only one class player and that is Dugan. This was with a bit of luck our way.

For next year we only have Widdop so far and if we're lucky maybe Dugan will extend.

Don't blame the cattle; blame the people signing the cattle. Don't complain about the cattle playing out of position; blame the coach who makes the selections. Remember Price said at the beginning of this year, he would not continue with the idea of signing Rangi Chase because he is happy with the halves he had - even though Kyle was out for the season.

You talk about good judgement and knowledge of what needs to be done. Well it's there in front of you however, you don't want to see it.

For all members who blame the cattle and not the coach, I invite you to list the cattle you would get rid of and describe in which way each of these players have failed the team over the past two years.

It's my opinion that we have the nucleons of a good side and we just need a few players to replace some older heroes - Cooper, Fien and Weyman - and some bad recruitment decisions - C Stanley, Vae, Ah Mau, Vai Vai, Goodwin etc.

We need first grade ready players as back up in the Cutters and we need well coached enthusiastic first graders playing to winning game plans each week.

All of this is within the control of Club officials and most of this is outside the control of our players.

 

[BennyV]

Agree with all of this. Discipline was the most obvious initial improvement under Bennett.
Still have concerns over the centres. Although they seem like the obvious first choices, neither were starting centres for their previous clubs.

Beale was on the wing at Broncos: had 2 internationals ahead of him in the centres (Hodges and Reed) and the incumbent NZ fullback in front of him at #1 (Hoffman)...he did get picked in the centres for NZ and played there quite well...

Farrell WAS a starting centre at Souffs, got injured and then was left in reserves as Souffs obviously didnt see the sense in furthering his development if he was coming here...he is also a very competent centre and will do quite well for us...

 

[bottle]

For two years now we have had Price in charge. We have recruited only one class player and that is Dugan and a bit of luck our way secured him for this year.

For next year we only have Widdop so far and if we're lucky maybe Dugan will extend.

It's well documented that Price has not been involved in recruitment.

Don't blame the cattle; blame the people signing the cattle.

Again, not Price.

Don't complain about the cattle playing out of position; blame the coach who makes the selections.

I will leave apportioning blame to you. I believe in working within the constraints you are faced with, which is what Price has been forced to do, not playing the blame game.

Remember Price said at the beginning of this year that he would not continue with the idea of signing Rangi Chase because he is happy with the halves he had - even though Kyle was out for the season.

That's wrong, and you've had it pointed out to you before yet you continue to choose to ignore it. Kyle wasn't yet injured for the second time when Price made this statement, and Soward was also still a part of the picture.

For all members who blame the cattle and not the coach, I invite you to list the cattle you would get rid of and describe in which way they have failed the team over the past two years.

Multiple posts by me stating halves, centres, and at least one, preferably two, big go forward props needed. It's not about failure, it's about whether they posses the requisite ability to make the side competitive.

It's my opinion that we have the nucleons of a good side and we just need a few players to replace some older warn out heroes - Cooper, Fien and Weyman - and some bad recruitment decisions - C Stanley, Vae, Ah Mau, Vai Vai, Goodwin etc.

As I said, halves, centres, a prop or two.

All of this is within the control of Club officials and most of this is outside the control of our players.

And since you are referring to recruitment, also outside of the control of your whipping boy Price.
You lump everything together and then simply blame Price for the lot. Wrong and simplistic.

 

[bottle]

Beale was on the wing at Broncos: had 2 internationals ahead of him in the centres (Hodges and Reed) and the incumbent NZ fullback in front of him at #1 (Hoffman)...he did get picked in the centres for NZ and played there quite well...

Farrell WAS a starting centre at Souffs, got injured and then was left in reserves as Souffs obviously didnt see the sense in furthering his development if he was coming here...he is also a very competent centre and will do quite well for us...

I know that what you say is right re the player's pedigrees and I hope your assessment is spot on. I am a little skeptical I'm afraid. I hope you are 100% right.

 

[Mr Red]

any coach that says he is happy with the halves when all we had at the time was Soward (who he was already clashing with), Stanley (injury prone), FIen (an aging hooker) and Drinkwater (not ready for first grade) is just plain crazy..
Any combination of the above would not get us anywhere near the top 4, and would struggle to make the top 8.
Was Price really serious when stating that... or was he just showing support for the players, really knowing inside that his halves were screwed..
Surely he isnt dumb enough to think those halves were going to be competitive for an entire season?

 

[bottle]

I guess there were high hopes re a Soward/Stanley combo being the bomb, and to be fair that's a talented combo on paper. Drinkwater would have been seen as a work in progress and a future option to replace Soward at the time I guess.

However in retrospect it was a disastrous set of circumstances that could be argued as poor planning I suppose. If only crystal balls actually worked, all might have been different.

 

[BennyV]

I'm also of the opinion that Price knew we wouldn't be getting Rangi at the time, as there was also an article that came out stating that Rangi wouldn't be released or wouldnt be able to get a transfer...I reckon Price was trying to save face and show his current stock that he had faith in them...