Has expansion actually brought in any more money?

[Perth Red]

An interesting debate in the media section has uncovered a potential misdirection by Vlandys and Abdo on value of Dolphins expansion.

baseline panther is claiming that Vlandys signed us up to a deal with fox for 2023-2027 for $20million LESS than the deal signed on the 18-22 deal. Then when announcing expansion he claimed fox was going to pay $100million for it. In effect all that does is take the fox deal back to where it was in 2018. Ie they aren’t paying anymore for the extra content than they agreed to in 2018.

alongside that the nine deal has stayed the same in cash with just contra (advertising) increasing by $10mill a year.

the big increase from sky nz was largely due to competition tendering with a streaming service Not expansion.

if baseline panthers is correct then we have just expanded with no more cash to show for it than we had in the 18-22 deal. Has the nrl pulled a fast one and made it sound like expansion has been paid for when in reality it hasnt generated anything more?

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

There's been talk over the last few years about broadcast rights for sport reaching their peak. It's held true for the A-League and Super Rugby.

AwFuL's Gill The Dill had to accept a reduced broadcast deal for the "stars" of the world's premier fumbleball competition.

 

[Perth Red]

There's been talk over the last few years about broadcast rights for sport reaching their peak. It's held true for the A-League and Super Rugby.

AwFuL's Gill The Dill had to accept a reduced broadcast deal for the "stars" of the world's premier fumbleball competition.

Yet other major sports globally have significantly increased their deals in the last two years, including afl.
even the Aleague deal didn’t drop by $100mill!!

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Yet other major sports globally have significantly increased their deals in the last two years, including afl.
even the Aleague deal didn’t drop by $100mill!!

The A-League is getting $200 million over five years, at $40 million per season.

A-League confirms 'AUS$200m' rights deal that sees Paramount+ launch in Australia - SportsPro

ViacomCBS to also air domestic top-flight soccer on commercial Network Ten in five-year deal.

www.sportspromedia.com

That's barely enough to cover three NRL clubs, but enough money for Foxtel to say "sorry, we're not interested and need that money to keep RL, cricket, Supercars and fumbleball".

Onionball is getting $33 million a year over three years in a deal worth $100 million.

Rugby Australia signs deal with Nine to stream games on Stan

Rugby Australia signs a three-year deal with Nine to show matches on its online streaming service, Stan, with select matches to be broadcast on free-to-air television.

www.abc.net.au

NBL is now with ESPN for $15 a year over three years, totalling $45 million.

That's $88 million a year Foxtel is saving.

 

[The Great Dane]

An interesting debate in the media section has uncovered a potential misdirection by Vlandys and Abdo on value of Dolphins expansion.

baseline panther is claiming that Vlandys signed us up to a deal with fox for 2023-2027 for $20million LESS than the deal signed on the 18-22 deal. Then when announcing expansion he claimed fox was going to pay $100million for it. In effect all that does is take the fox deal back to where it was in 2018. Ie they aren’t paying anymore for the extra content than they agreed to in 2018.

alongside that the nine deal has stayed the same in cash with just contra (advertising) increasing by $10mill a year.

the big increase from sky nz was largely due to competition tendering with a streaming service Not expansion.

if baseline panthers is correct then we have just expanded with no more cash to show for it than we had in the 18-22 deal. Has the nrl pulled a fast one and made it sound like expansion has been paid for when in reality it hasnt generated anything more?

Fascinating.

It'd have to be up there as one the biggest fails in RL history, if it's true of course.

 

[Perth Red]

The A-League is getting $200 million over five years, at $40 million per season.

A-League confirms 'AUS$200m' rights deal that sees Paramount+ launch in Australia - SportsPro

ViacomCBS to also air domestic top-flight soccer on commercial Network Ten in five-year deal.

www.sportspromedia.com

That's barely enough to cover three NRL clubs, but enough money for Foxtel to say "sorry, we're not interested and need that money to keep RL, cricket, Supercars and fumbleball".

Onionball is getting $33 million a year over three years in a deal worth $100 million.

Rugby Australia signs deal with Nine to stream games on Stan

Rugby Australia signs a three-year deal with Nine to show matches on its online streaming service, Stan, with select matches to be broadcast on free-to-air television.

www.abc.net.au

NBL is now with ESPN for $15 a year over three years, totalling $45 million.

That's $88 million a year Foxtel is saving.

Total isn’t the point, reduction is. Aleague got about a $11million a year reduction. If baseline panthers is correct we got a reduction of $20million prior to expansion!

 

[Perth Red]

Fascinating.

It'd have to be up there as one the biggest fails in RL history, if it's true of course.

Yep it is quite staggering to think Vlandys signed us up to $20milliin a year less from fox then had the cheek to say fox are paying $20million more for expansion! we know Ch9 has paid nothing more which puts to bed the myth that another Brisbane team was of any value to fta.

baselinepanther seems to be correct sadly. The $400mill deal is broken down to
nine $130 mill a year
sky nz $32.8 mill a year
fox $240 mill a year.

considering the last deal had fox paying $240mill a year that does mean the Initial deal Vlandys signed us up to in 2020 must have been $220mill a year, $100mill less,than last time. then expansion they topped it up $20mill a year to bring it back to $240mill.

it’s outrageous! More content, conscessions on digital shut down, no telstra streaming and no mid seasons internationals and fox are paying the same in 23-27 as they agreed to in 2018!!
basically we have expanded without extra cash revenue compared to last deal!

 

[The Great Dane]

Yep it is quite staggering to think Vlandys signed us up to $20milliin a year less from fox then had the cheek to say fox are paying $20million more for expansion! we know Ch9 has paid nothing more which puts to bed the myth that another Brisbane team was of any value to fta.

baselinepanther seems to be correct sadly. The $400mill deal is broken down to
nine $130 mill a year
sky nz $32.8 mill a year
fox $240 mill a year.

considering the last deal had fox paying $240mill a year that does mean the Initial deal Vlandys signed us up to in 2020 must have been $220mill a year, $100mill less,than last time. then expansion they topped it up $20mill a year to bring it back to $240mill.

it’s outrageous! More content, conscessions on digital shut down, no telstra streaming and no mid seasons internationals and fox are paying the same in 23-27 as they agreed to in 2018!!
basically we have expanded without extra cash revenue compared to last deal!

A second Brisbane team was definitely worth more to broadcasters, but why would they pay more if they don't have to...

IDK, I've basically given up on RL's future prospects in Australia, it's simply made too many mistakes over the past 30ish years, particularly the last 10, for it to be able to maintain it's position if it continues down the path it's going down. IMO unless it makes massive changes now it's destined to become a niche sport that isn't a true player in the national market anymore.
I mean I just look around at my family and the young people I know and none of the kids under roughly 25 hold RL as their favourite sport, and most of them don't follow RL in any meaningful way at all, where just 10 years ago RL would have dominated in those demographics... For the most part it isn't the AFL that's picking up those new fans either, it's the UFC, NBA, EPL, NFL, etc, etc.

When I see developments like the above, the AFL's consistent growth, and things like the link I'm about to post, I get a feeling that I imagine feels a bit like how the Neanderthal's must have felt back in the day watching Homo sapiens slowly encroaching on their habitat... https://www.therams.com/news/rams-awarded-international-markets-australia-china-mexico

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Total isn’t the point, reduction is. Aleague got about a $11million a year reduction. If baseline panthers is correct we got a reduction of $20million prior to expansion!

If A-League went from $51 million to $40 million per annum then it has taken a 22% reduction.

If NRL went from $400 million to $380 million per annum (before expansion) then that's a 5% reduction. It doesn't surprise me we were offered 5% less given the problems caused by COVID-19. Ratings weren't great in 2021.

Brisbane 2 was introduced under the provision that fewer Broncos games would be simulcast on Ch9. That would have lowered the value of the extra team. If Ch9 had Broncos and Dolphins playing on a Friday and Sunday over most rounds then the new team would have been worth more.

 

[Perth Red]

by my calculations expansion is actually going to cost the nrl round $25million plus over the life of the next tv deal, Instead of it making us more money! Vlandys agreeing to a $100 mill reduction then fox paying $100mill for expansion looks like smoke and mirrors for Vlandys to save face.
my workings out

mentioned in media an extra team will cost the nrl $15mill a year
new tv deal is bringing on an extra $20mill a year but at least $10mill of that is extra contra, not cash. That means at best nrls media revenue will increase by $10mill cash a year from 23 (likely to be less depending on the make up of the sky nz and fox deals re contra). Ergo the. NRl is losing $5mill a year,

now you can say that without expansion we wouldn’t have got the fox extra $100mill, but if Vlandys hadn’t signed a terrible deal in 2020 it wouldn’t have been needed to see the same overall increase to media revenue. Vlandys needed expansion to cover up his reduced deal with fox, may explain why it all felt very rushed?

be interesting to see if clubs get wind of this and their reaction!

 

[Perth Red]

If A-League went from $51 million to $40 million per annum then it has taken a 22% reduction.

If NRL went from $400 million to $380 million per annum (before expansion) then that's a 5% reduction. It doesn't surprise me we were offered 5% less given the problems caused by COVID-19. Ratings weren't great in 2021.

Brisbane 2 was introduced under the provision that fewer Broncos games would be simulcast on Ch9. That would have lowered the value of the extra team. If Ch9 had Broncos and Dolphins playing on a Friday and Sunday over most rounds then the new team would have been worth more.

% pah. would you rather lose $11mill or $20mill? Lol

Ch9 paid nothing! You’ve been telling us for years that an extra brisbane team is worth a mint to fta. The evidence is in and the sad reality is fta hasn’t paid one cent for it. Your theory is proven to be flawed.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

% pah. would you rather lose $11mill or $20mill? Lol

Ch9 paid nothing! You’ve been telling us for years that an extra brisbane team is worth a mint to fta. The evidence is in and the sad reality is fta hasn’t paid one cent for it. Your theory is proven to be flawed.

Not really, as my theory was based on Broncos and Brisbane 2 both being a mainstay on Ch9 to maximise ratings in Brisbane and Sydney. Foxtel threw in $20m to gain exclusive access to more Broncos games. It's weakened the value of Brisbane 2 as there will be as many Sydney vs Sydney games broadcast on Ch9 in 2023 as there will be next year.

 

[T-Boon]

the code really needs the Dolphins to be a slam dunk on the field and be a legitimate success the equivalent of the Broncos because the problem for the NRL is how strong but dog shit the Sydney clubs are.

 

[Santino Patane]

the code really needs the Dolphins to be a slam dunk on the field and be a legitimate success the equivalent of the Broncos because the problem for the NRL is how strong but dog shit the Sydney clubs are.

Too funny, but what’s funnier is how many people on here will get but-hurt by your last statement!

 

[Idris 84]

the code really needs the Dolphins to be a slam dunk on the field and be a legitimate success the equivalent of the Broncos because the problem for the NRL is how strong but dog shit the Sydney clubs are.

I really don't see it to be honest. Second teams usually struggle after the shiny new toy appeal wears off and the dolphins don't even have a proper location name.

 

[Perth Red]

Not really, as my theory was based on Broncos and Brisbane 2 both being a mainstay on Ch9 to maximise ratings in Brisbane and Sydney. Foxtel threw in $20m to gain exclusive access to more Broncos games. It's weakened the value of Brisbane 2 as there will be as many Sydney vs Sydney games broadcast on Ch9 in 2023 as there will be next year.

Even if they cut broncos fta by 50%, which they won’t, and put dolphins on fta 75% of games you’d still get a significant increase in fta brisbane team exposure. Where’s the value to Ch9 you kept telling us about?? It didn’t really even have value to fox, they seemingly paid up a) to save Vlandys b) to get broncos off fta and drive subscriptions in brisbane.

broncos currently on fta 17/24 games

2023-
broncos on fta 9 games
dolphins on fta 18 games

total brisbane fta games 27, an increase of 10 games on fta for brisbane clubs.

 

[T-Boon]

the amount of money that comes into the game shouldn't be important as it all goes nowhere anyway. Even if there was a Perth team that Perth team would apparently not put any effort into Perth expansion/growth just as Melbourne don't in Melbourne.

 

[Perth Red]

the amount of money that comes into the game shouldn't be important as it all goes nowhere anyway. Even if there was a Perth team that Perth team would apparently not put any effort into Perth expansion/growth just as Melbourne don't in Melbourne.

You seem to be mixing two very different things lol
extra money means new opportunities
expansion clubs shouldn’t be expected to be responsible for grassroots growth

 

[This Year?]

the amount of money that comes into the game shouldn't be important as it all goes nowhere anyway. Even if there was a Perth team that Perth team would apparently not put any effort into Perth expansion/growth just as Melbourne don't in Melbourne.

Why would they? It's up to the State RL to worry about that. Even the NRL couldn't care about state growth. Every faction in RL only cares about themselves and not a common goal even if each faction would benefit from it.

 

[mongoose]

V'landys is just another Gallop, a News ltd figurehead making sure News benefit most out of their toy.