Have Wests Tigers won 16 Premierships?

[Puntastic]

I've always thought it was the fan's perspective that mattered.

If you were a St George fan before the merge and carried on until the present, for example, you get to brag that you've seen your team through 16 premierships.

If you were a Steelers fan before the merge and carried on until the present, you don't win 15 f**king premierships in 1999 when the deal was signed, so who cares?

If Souths merged with your team, are you going to through a party, get drunk enough to celebrate 20 premierships and start bragging about how your team is now just, totally the best, you guys? That would make no f**king sense.

The history of a club is carried through its fans, so that's what matters.

Now just wait for some f**kcudgel to say "I used to go for St George, now I go for Souths so I win 35 premierships".

 

[BunniesMan]

IMO the Dragons should count their premierships, the Tigers should not. First the Dragons were in all important ways a takeover rather than a pure JV. Secondly the Dragons only count premierships one team has won because the other team won none. That's fair.

The Dragons are more or less the Big Red V partially relocated. I see the Tigers very differently.

The Tigers should not because it is unfair to combine two sets of premierships. If Souths and Easts merge it would be ridiculous to say this new club has 30+ premierships.

And of course the Bears would have every right to count their first two. It's not a merger. It really is the same club just renamed and relocated.

Dragons - 16
Tigers - 1
Bears - 2

 

[Flapper]

The Wests Tigers have won 1 premiership. The St George Illawarra Dragons have also won 1 premiership. How this is even an argument I've not a clue.

 

[RockWheel]

The debate would seem to stem from St George fans who saw their team merge with Illawarra, and essentially all that happened is they started playing a few games a year in Wollongong. In 1999, they were still called St George (albeit with Illawarra added), still wore a white jersey with a red V, and were still nicknamed the Dragons. Not much had really changed, they were still the same team to supporters who had watched them win and lose grand finals through the 70s, 80s and 90s. So from their perspective, winning in 2010 felt like a continuation of the same team, rather than a new team, as statistically, they were.

Anyway, the main area of contention comes from how the NRL keeps the records. They count St George Illawarra as a new club, with new playing records etc., as beginning from 1999. The alternative is to count St George (1921 to 1998) records into St George Illawarra records while disregarding Illawarra statistics. You can't include both St George and Illawarra records towards St George Illawarra statistics, because from 1982 to 1998 the club would've played twice as many games as any other club, twice as many players etc.

The NRL decided to count St George Illawarra as a new club, statistically, from 1999. The alternative is to just count St George records into St George Illawarra, which I imagine is what a lot of old fans have already done, because from their perspective, it's all the same club.

 

[Usain Bolt]

The Auckland Warriors have won 0 premierships

The NZ Warriors have won 0 premierships

 

[Son of Minto]

The Wests Tigers have won 1 premiership. The St George Illawarra Dragons have also won 1 premiership. How this is even an argument I've not a clue.

Its an argument because people are f**king morons. Your post is correct.

 

[Owen Da Saints]

I'm sure there would be a lot of people pissed off if they worked for a company that merged with another, and were then told they had lost annual leave because the company name has changed !
Or if they went for a job interview and were told their résumé is null and void wherever there is a reference to any positions achieved for a company that doesn't exist anymore !

 

[ek999]

Lol. Horrible logic right there

 

[bottle]

As far as I'm concerned, the Dragons have won 16 premierships.
I've seen my team win 3 premierships in my lifetime, and I didn't ever change the team I followed.
Enough said !

+1

 

[Owen Da Saints]

Lol. Horrible logic right there

Why ?
Discuss !

PS : eg 1 happened to my wife ! I know she wasn't happy. Would you be ?

 

[Radical Rat]

As far as I'm concerned, the Dragons have won 16 premierships.
I've seen my team win 3 premierships in my lifetime, and I didn't ever change the team I followed.
Enough said !

I can't believe this is even an argument.

Although through no fault of your own, the team you follow did change. You did support St.Geroge, you now support St.George/Illawarra. I'm sure it wasn't a drastic change from your personal perspective. But it's still a completely different club.

I was a Balmain fan and now Wests Tigers. Two completely separate clubs.

 

[RockWheel]

Why ?
Discuss !

PS : eg 1 happened to my wife ! I know she wasn't happy. Would you be ?

Because football statistics and records are completely different to a company merging.

 

[ek999]

Well 1 is illegal, your wife should have been paid out her entitlement at the time of the merger as it is the old owner who is liable to pay for it. Of course if the company went into insolvency and was taken over then that is a seperate issue and she may not get anything paid out. She also should have kept her LSL service period

In example 2 you are saying that say someone was working for Ansett as a flight attendant for 10 years before they collapsed. They subsequently applied for a job at Qantas and they refused them a job because they hadn't worked for the last 10 years because Ansett don't exist. That doesn't make sense. Just because a company doesn't exist anymore doesn't mean it didn't exist in the past.

No one here is saying that St George Dragons never existed and that they didn't win any premierships and there was a record run of 11 years in a row where no one won the premiership. Just that St George won 15, Illawarra won 0 and St George Illawarra has won 1.

 

[Owen Da Saints]

Well 1 is illegal, your wife should have been paid out her entitlement at the time of the merger as it is the old owner who is liable to pay for it. Of course if the company went into insolvency and was taken over then that is a seperate issue and she may not get anything paid out. She also should have kept her LSL service period

In example 2 you are saying that say someone was working for Ansett as a flight attendant for 10 years before they collapsed. They subsequently applied for a job at Qantas and they refused them a job because they hadn't worked for the last 10 years because Ansett don't exist. That doesn't make sense. Just because a company doesn't exist anymore doesn't mean it didn't exist in the past.

No one here is saying that St George Dragons never existed and that they didn't win any premierships and there was a record run of 11 years in a row where no one won the premiership. Just that St George won 15, Illawarra won 0 and St George Illawarra has won 1.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I understand your point of view.
At least you offer opposing points of view (as opposed to others on here that just hate the dragons !)
But surely you could understand someone else's point of view based on the fact that have celebrated more than 1 premiership without changing the club they support !
If the NRL acknowledges clubs with ties to the past as still being relevant, why can't everybody else ?

 

[RockWheel]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I understand your point of view.
At least you offer opposing points of view (as opposed to others on here that just hate the dragons !)
But surely you could understand someone else's point of view based on the fact that have celebrated more than 1 premiership without changing the club they support !
If the NRL acknowledges clubs with ties to the past as still being relevant, why can't everybody else ?

No one's saying you can't celebrate or enjoy the premierships won by your team in the past. Anyone who says anything else is probably just a hater. But the fact is, the NRL counts St George Illawarra and its records separate to those of St George. St George won 15 premierships, St George Illawarra has won 1. But the two don't combine, just because the fans want them to.

 

[God-King Dean]

Just ignore them Owen.

They are just jealous because they wish they were Dragon fans.

 

[Owen Da Saints]

No one's saying you can't celebrate or enjoy the premierships won by your team in the past. Anyone who says anything else is probably just a hater. But the fact is, the NRL counts St George Illawarra and its records separate to those of St George. St George won 15 premierships, St George Illawarra has won 1. But the two don't combine, just because the fans want them to.

As I said with ek, I understand your point if view (& explanation of it).
Nothing wrong with different points of view !

 

[Owen Da Saints]

Just ignore them Owen.

They are just jealous because they wish they were Dragon fans.

Haha ! Maybe ? We follow a club that has a history to be proud of !

 

[Radical Rat]

Just ignore them Owen.

They are just jealous because they wish they were Dragon fans.

 

[macnaz]

Pfffffft. Premierships are for pussies.

The real achievement is in having absolutely nothing to show for 40 odd years of existence.

Exactly. ... most clubs would go soft and merge just trying to win one