Hayne wants another chance at 1....

[Phillips]

I'm biased towards both as Burt has been one of my favourite players for a long time, i was one of the people that felt letting McKinnon leave was a good decision. And i rate Hayne's talent to be up there with the best, sh*t attitude atm but a good coach would put him in his place.

letting McKinnon go was one of the biggest mistakes this club as ever made.

 

[Tekken Lord]

I agree, however i think his attitude more frustration because he cannot contribute more to the side, a good quality to have.

I think Burt has had his chance to prove his worth, he has failed, lets revert back to what we had and succeded at last year.

100% agree, the article sounds like most of Hayne's attitude issues have to do with his frustration at not being more involved, and really all he said is he wants to be more involved. Sure in general his attitude stinks but in this case it is a very good thing and shows what separates the Brett Finch's and the Scott Prince's of this world, well that and talent.

Any other NRL side and Burt would not be near first grade, so why is he in or first grade side every f**king week with no sign of change? A weak pathetic and useless coach is the answer.

 

[Tekken Lord]

letting McKinnon go was one of the biggest mistakes this club as ever made.

In hindsight maybe at the time of said decision i disagree, that's my bias towards Burt but thankfully as much as i like the bloke i can acknowledge just how bad he is playing now.

 

[bartman]

So he purposely wanted to get suspended? Jarryd apparently didn't hear the call

The call was pretty irrelevent, he shouldn't have been tackling like that anyway. Childish play, and deservedly suspended imo. And his return game effort was far from making up for lost time.

Yes and Yes, but? has Burt?

No, but as we have said, this season form Burt > Hayne.

Well many were, including the commentators.

Didn't Hayne get a 10/10 match performance rating from RLW against Brisbane whilst at FB?

He might have, but that is not this season's form. Tim had some good games last year too, but it didn't mean his games this year were first grade standard, and he knew it and did the honourable thing.

Same field as the one Burt is on?

Yes, and as we have been saying on this year's form Burt > Hayne. And Burt is not the one risking team stability by moaning to the papers...

He has played one game on the wing this year, how many games has Burt played at FB?

You told me before I think... but your point is? I've said that I don't beleive you drop someone unless there is someone there calling for a shot to replace them. Hayne has not made the case on the field, in any position. If Hayne has only played one game on the wing, then let's give him as much chance there as we gave him in the centres to "come good".

You mean we have an SOO player in our side? surely we'd be using him often right?

Did you read what I wrote? In his rightfully earnt rep position, ie wing. You are repeating yourself and not making much sense.

or Burt

Huh? Why the witch hunt? Hayne went to the paper with some comments, which is why this thread exists and why I am putting forward a view today. What is behind your Burt obsession?

Williams has played 3 times the amount of games on the wing as Hayne this year:lol:

I'm not sure I get you're joke... you're not making much sense? Williams had probably contributed three times as much energy and spark towards our efforts this season, without whinging even though he has forward ambitions.

Hayne gets the benefit of the doubt to stay in the team making less impact because wing is meant to be his rightful rep position - but sooky la la doesn't want to play there... I wouldn't mind Williams taking Hayne's spot on the wing if hages drops him to Wenty.

Why wasn't he in the rep sides then.

Because Jarryd earnt his spot through previous form in previous years shown in his rightfully selected rep position - on the wing!

You know how rep selection works, I think you're just arguing for the sake of it now, not because you believe in what you're typing?

From what i've seen Burt is lucky to even be playing FG

Fair enough, each to their own. But I'm not convinced you've mounted a good enough case for Jarryd to be the one replace him? As I've said, if we had to shift someone else to fullback, Inu would be my preferred choice, and Eele has pumped for Reddy with a well reasoned post.

So did Burt, remember 2001 & 05? where was Burt playing?

Huh? You were the one talking about last year after round 17, and so I referring to last year before round 17, and giving Jarryd some credit. What on earth do 2001 and 2005 have to do with this year? You're almost agreeing with the point I made using Wags on the wing as an example, although I'm not sure you actually meant to prove my point?

Maybe because i'm sure when Hayne re-signed it wasn'to play wing when it is evident he's a far more contributing playing then just a winger.

Which is why Hages gave him first shot at centres, but his contribution was timid at best.

Last year I would have agreed that Hayne was well placed to be a great contributer, but on this year's form I can't see it. I see more from Inu to be honest, and last year most people (including me) would have been surprised that Inu has effectively ousted Jarryd from the centres (and would oust him from fullback too imo, if it came down to that).

Nah, proven formula means proving you can excell at a position when it matters most eg look at late 2007.

It would be a high risk coaching gamble to ignore present season form and give someone a blind shot. hages tried it with Tim Smith's premature return, and look how that ended up... I don't think it's worth doing again for Hayne myself.

You mean we shouldn't be blaming one player? please stop you're making me laugh:lol:

You dont think perhaps go forward and lack of quality ball contributed to Haynes form?

Nah offcourse not.

Again, I don't get your joke? maybe I haven't had as many cans as you...

And if we are willing to use the no go forward excuse for one players form (Hayne in the centres) we must be willing to use it for others (Burt at fullback) otherwise it's pretty hypocritical.

Yeah 2007 does seem like an age ago huh

In terms of how relevant past form is to the present season, then it is.

Yep totally agree, if you cant perform after one game you should be sent to reggies, yep thank god the likes of Finch and Burt etc have proven to be weekly contributors.

No, but if you open your mouth to the media and imply you are unhappy with the coaching selections, and risk the already fragile morale of your teammates, then you should get sent to reggies. haven't seen anyone else quoted in the media saying "I don't want to play .......".

Are you able to follow any of this, or did I catch you too late in the evening? You reply has shown a real lack of actually reading anything that was written.

So we persist with the product at hand or do look for significant changes Bartman, my point!

After reading Jarryd's quotes, I actually think we may not get an improvement out of the current squad this season - the team spirit is not there when someone comes out in the media like he did sayingthey don't want to play where they are picked.

I would persist with players that wanted to play, in the hope we can improve, while now keeping an eye on how to improve next year when we won't be haunted by the ghost of Tim's vacant locker. With an attitude like Jarryd's - and not having the form to match - I wouldn't be surprised if he enters the coach's list of players to be traded before their contract expires, if the opportunity arises... which is usually the player's whole point when a player is quoted negatively like this in the media?

Our form month? were we won 2 and lost 2?:lol: you can thank Feleti and an understrength Raiders and Tigers for that.

yes, you remember the right month. Burt was running off Feleti, so yes, as I said we can thank him. But because that didn't happen in the last two week it's all Burt's fault, and not Feleti's at all? The mind boggles...

Where are we now Bartman, we have a great player on our roster who we all know and has proven to be an elite player playing at FB, use it, dont abuse it.

Who, Inu?

if you are talking about Jarryd, we have a potentially great but out of form player, who is not giving the coach what he wants in any position so far this year, who is moaning to the media about not wanting to play where he is picked (which happens to be his best, and only rep selected position), and has not represented or been "elite" at fullback. The coach tries to use him at centre and it failed, the coach tried to use him on the wing and he sooked. Use it in reggies would be my solution this week.

This season has shown that Burt is not the player he was and Hayne is being shifted all over the place, Burt is just as liable as Hayne, make the switch time is ticking!

Agree Burt is not in the form he was last season. Neither is Hindy, Hayne... virtually anyone. Doesn't mean we switch them all around :crazy:.

First you look for your problems, and try and fix them. Burt is not our problem, and is not losing us games. In fact, I recall he has won us a few this season?

The current problem - entirely because of the quotes in the article - is that Hagan has to find a position for Jarryd where he will be motivated to play well, and not sook. Centre failed, Jarryd is making sure wing fails... that doesn't add up to displacing anyone for a shot at fullback in my book.

Thanks for that Ron, it's been a pleasant night.

 

[bartman]

really? could've sworn that he has stated many times he prefers fullback?

I guess you must know him better then us..

The team's preference for his position, where he fits the team's need best, not his own preference....

I'm trying to give Jarryd a break here, as someone pointed out the quotes in the article do not actually say Jarryd wants fullback, just that he doesn't want wing.

 

[bartman]

Believe me Burt is a bigger problem then you think.

You wonder why the opposition keep bombing him?

Burt is the one to go, not Hayne sorry, Burt would be lucky to get another contract in the NRL, Hayne? well he's a current SOO player

Have we let in as many tries through Burt dropping bombs as we did through the outside backs when Jarryd was playing centre?

Admittedly Jarryd was not on the danger side where we leaked without fail earlier in the year, but I haven't notice Burt gifting too many tries?

Agree Burt is toward the end of his career, and Jarryd has a lot of years in him. But unless he starts playing to the potential he was signed for, those years won't be with Parra because he risks being cut.

I'm critical of Jarryd making statements to the media about his views on team selections, because of the effect they may have on team morale and because those views should be put to the coach for the bvenefit of the team as a whole, not the player's own ego. Those points of criticism remain, now matter how much you want to turn this into a Burt v Hayne debate.

 

[Tekken Lord]

Bartman compared to fullbacks playing for other NRL teams how many is Burt ahead of on this years form? Zero, please explain how that is better than Hayne?

 

[bartman]

Sigh, i don't have these facts on me and i'm not going to look them up, why don't you prove me wrong. But you wont look them up and you wont prove me wrong, if you really need to see the facts and haven't noticed from watching the games then, sigh...

You made the claim, why should I do the work to prove you wrong, when you never bothered to back up an opinion you attempted to present as fact anyway. maybe I'll just ignore it because it's different to mine - wasn't that the approach you recommend? :lol:

What you can't see how your post reaked of bias and hypocrisy? Do i really need to give you the definitions and explain it to the point where someone with an IQ of 2 would understand? I wouldn't be laughing if i were you any person with any sense would have read that comment and then disregarded your opinion as i have. Do i really have to explain it? Because i will but i'd rather not, why? Because it is tiresome.

Another post full of nothing... what reason do I have to be biased, and hypocritcial? What's the difference between someone having a different opinion to you, and them being generally biased or hypocritical (with you not attempting to go further than the general claim)?

I really must've hit the double whammy of forum discussions tonight!

Didn't i say Hayne isn't my first choice, and INU has been nothing special either, he hasn't done anything to warrant being selected in the very important position of fullback, Reddy is the only candidate.

Yes, you did say that. Am not sure why you're saying it again? I believe Reddy shouldbe left in the centres where he has been our form back, instead of being shifted. That's why my opinion is that Inu would be first choice, but you're entitled to yours, and at least it's not Hayne.

 

[Tekken Lord]

Double post.

 

[Tekken Lord]

I'm critical of Jarryd making statements to the media about his views on team selections, because of the effect they may have on team morale and because those views should be put to the coach for the bvenefit of the team as a whole, not the player's own ego. Those points of criticism remain, now matter how much you want to turn this into a Burt v Hayne debate.

Personally i'm happy Hayne said something, sure it may not have been the right thing to do. But he couldn't be more right about what he said. It is obvious this is not a team but a group of individuals and i feel it's as much everyone's fault as it is big ego's like Hayne, who cares about team morale the "team" obviously doesn't.

Also no amount of negative comments from Hayne or anyone could have Burt playing with any less confidence than he is now, it is so obvious its painful to watch him play, because you can see he has no self belief.

 

[bartman]

Bartman compared to fullbacks playing for other NRL teams how many is Burt ahead of on this years form? Zero, please explain how that is better than Hayne?

phew, I think I've caught up!

OK, since you haven't come up with your "facts" of why Burt is he worst fullback in the comp, I've got out a big league to run through round 16's fullbacks...

I'd rate Burt better than or equal to:
Youngquest (Bulldogs)
Graham (NQ)
Hohaia (NZ)

I think that's a pretty fair list... I probably could have squeezed a few more names in as debatables. Would you rather have any of those guys playing fullback at parra than Burt?

I wouldn't. And as I've been saying Hayne's form this year is even worse - is anyone disagreeing with that at all, or are we all just referring back to past season glories to make some case for Jarryd in #1?

 

[Tekken Lord]

You made the claim, why should I do the work to prove you wrong, when you never bothered to back up an opinion you attempted to present as fact anyway. maybe I'll just ignore it because it's different to mine - wasn't that the approach you recommend? :lol:.

Actually that's not the approach i recommend do you even have a basic understanding of the english language? Because i don't have these facts on me and can't be bothered to look them up i recommended you do it? In what way in any form of facts can you prove Burt is first grade standard?

Another post full of nothing... what reason do I have to be biased, and hypocritcial? What's the difference between someone having a different opinion to you, and them being generally biased or hypocritical (with you not attempting to go further than the general claim)?

Again how well do you understand english? (question mark means its a question) You'll notice my last post was full of them meaning i was asking you if i really needed to explain why. Obviously you completely missed that but well people are stupid, but don't worry not right now but in the near future i will actually explain. Also how would i know your reasoning i'm not in your head, all i can do is see the bias and hypocrisy not understand it.

Yes, you did say that. Am not sure why you're saying it again? I believe Reddy shouldbe left in the centres where he has been our form back, instead of being shifted. That's why my opinion is that Inu would be first choice, but you're entitled to yours, and at least it's not Hayne.

Another example of hypocrisy. Guess what i'll explain why, Reddy has been our best form back, you want Hayne to show form to displace Burt but Reddy's form indicates he should be left in the centres. If Hayne was to show form that would indicate he is worthy of being shifted to fullback. Now tell me that's not hypocrisy!

 

[bartman]

Personally i'm happy Hayne said something, sure it may not have been the right thing to do.

That's where I'm at, and have been all along until distracted by RJ's Hayne ve Burt obsessions...

But he couldn't be more right about what he said.

That he doesn't want to play wing? Or that he wants to be more involved? Doesn't the silly little thing realise that he can become more invovled, just like Tony Williams was as a winger? And that if he wants to get off the wing (where he has ended up because of poor form in the centres) that the secret is to that is to... actually play well on the wing? It's not rocket science, but someone (his manager?) maybe needs to spell it out to Jarryd, remind him that he's only as good as his last game, and to let his footy do the talking.

It is obvious this is not a team but a group of individuals and i feel it's as much everyone's fault as it is big ego's like Hayne, who cares about team morale the "team" obviously doesn't.

Agree with you there, Jarryd is not alone as being a problem ego. But he's the only one that's come out and shown it in public in this way... so... he's the one we don't have to speculate about.

Also no amount of negative comments from Hayne or anyone could have Burt playing with any less confidence than he is now, it is so obvious its painful to watch him play, because you can see he has no self belief.

He was not looking good with the kick returns on Sunday, but he did chime in well for one late move, in a game where no-one else did anything until late either.

Is it any wonder though that Burt/we played like that, if this has been jarryd's attitdue within the club sicne being anmed on the wing last Tuesday, and it's only become public today? Jarryd will probably have a lot of explaining to do this week, and that's why for the sake of the team as a whole, if I was Hagan, Jarryd would find himself in Wenty for the weekend, so he can grow up. He's not doing anyone or the team any good at the moment through giving quotes like that to journos - except (perhaps intentionally?) sewing discontent, to set up another contract discussion?

 

[Tekken Lord]

phew, I think I've caught up!

OK, since you haven't come up with your "facts" of why Burt is he worst fullback in the comp, I've got out a big league to run through round 16's fullbacks...

I'd rate Burt better than or equal to:
Youngquest (Bulldogs)
Graham (NQ)
Hohaia (NZ)

I think that's a pretty fair list... I probably could have squeezed a few more names in as debatables. Would you rather have any of those guys playing fullback at parra than Burt?

I wouldn't. And as I've been saying Hayne's form this year is even worse - is anyone disagreeing with that at all, or are we all just referring back to past season glories to make some case for Jarryd in #1?

Are you blind?

Originally Posted by Tekken Lord
Bartman compared to fullbacks playing for other NRL teams how many is Burt ahead of on this years form? Zero, please explain how that is better than Hayne?

I'm disagreeing with that and you ask if anyone is disagreeing with that in the reply to the very question :lol::lol::lol:

I'd rate Burt better than those players last year, this year his form is way worse than those three. So i would have any of them playing instead of Burt, and as i showed early i actually have a bias towards Burt not against.

 

[bartman]

Actually that's not the approach i recommend do you even have a basic understanding of the english language? Because i don't have these facts on me and can't be bothered to look them up i recommended you do it? In what way in any form of facts can you prove Burt is first grade standard?

Huh? You've lost me. I gave a list of fullbacks I think Burt is better than on current form a few posts above. That's the best I can do, since you came up with nothing... there's a question there too - which of those guys would you have instead of Burt. If you can't name one (in your opinion), then Burt is not the worst fullback in the comp as you have claimed.

Again how well do you understand english? (question mark means its a question) You'll notice my last post was full of them meaning i was asking you if i really needed to explain why. Obviously you completely missed that but well people are stupid, but don't worry not right now but in the near future i will actually explain. Also how would i know your reasoning i'm not in your head, all i can do is see the bias and hypocrisy not understand it.

Or perhaps you could explain it... so others can understand what is in your head? I'm trying to explain my points here, but you can't be bothered, and *sigh* instead?

Another example of hypocrisy. Guess what i'll explain why, Reddy has been our best form back, you want Hayne to show form to displace Burt but Reddy's form indicates he should be left in the centres. If Hayne was to show form that would indicate he is worthy of being shifted to fullback. Now tell me that's not hypocrisy!

Umm... it's not hypocrisy because Hayne has publically asked for a shift in position - his quote "I don't want to play on the wing". Reddy has not publically asked for a shift in position. Two different situations, no hypocrisy!

I'm simply describing what in my opinion Hayne would need to do to earn the shift in position he seems to be requesting. With Reddy I'm saying there is no reason to shift him because he's in good form where he is - again, a very different situation to hayne in terms of form. And again, no hypocrisy?

You seem to not be able to deal with someone having an opinion that they would not drop Burt and have the ballboy attempting to play fullback instead? You might want him dropped at all costs, I can see the risks of the result of that being even worse a) for team morale if Hagan gives into hayne's media plea, or b) if Reddy vacates a position he is doing well in.

We're talking fullback here - not a position where Burt is costing us tries, and not a position that will make as much of a difference as improving the performances of the forwards, or the halves. Strange people are so obsessed about the #1 jersey - I want Hayne to be in better form as well, but he is in charge of doing that (in any position) first, before whinging to the papers.

 

[bartman]

Are you blind?

I'm disagreeing with that and you ask if anyone is disagreeing with that in the reply to the very question :lol::lol::lol:

Form in general, this year? I thought you were saying Hayne's form previously as a fullback in a different season...

I think Hayne has offered us less on field than Burt this year. I guess we disagree on that most basic of considerations.

I'd rate Burt better than those players last year, this year his form is way worse than those three. So i would have any of them playing instead of Burt, and as i showed early i actually have a bias towards Burt not against.

Fair enough. I wouldn't swap Burt thsi year for any of those myself. Again, I guess we just disagree on that.

I don't have a problem with disagreeing, and am happy to state an opinion, read others opinions, without needing everyone to share mine or criticising them if they don't. Thanks TL, it's been a good night's discussions.

 

[Tekken Lord]

Huh? You've lost me. I gave a list of fullbacks I think Burt is better than on current form a few posts above. That's the best I can do, since you came up with nothing... there's a question there too - which of those guys would you have instead of Burt. If you can't name one (in your opinion), then Burt is not the worst fullback in the comp as you have claimed.

Or perhaps you could explain it... so others can understand what is in your head? I'm trying to explain my points here, but you can't be bothered, and *sigh* instead?

:lol::lol::lol: I replied to that just above.

Umm... it's not hypocrisy because Hayne has publically asked for a shift in position - his quote "I don't want to play on the wing". Reddy has not publically asked for a shift in position. Two different situations, no hypocrisy!

I'm simply describing what in my opinion Hayne would need to do to earn the shift in position he seems to be requesting. With Reddy I'm saying there is no reason to shift him because he's in good form where he is - again, a very different situation to hayne in terms of form. And again, no hypocrisy?

You seem to not be able to deal with someone having an opinion that they would not drop Burt and have the ballboy attempting to play fullback instead? You might want him dropped at all costs, I can see the risks of the result of that being even worse a) for team morale if Hagan gives into hayne's media plea, or b) if Reddy vacates a position he is doing well in.

We're talking fullback here - not a position where Burt is costing us tries, and not a position that will make as much of a difference as improving the performances of the forwards, or the halves. Strange people are so obsessed about the #1 jersey - I want Hayne to be in better form as well, but he is in charge of doing that (in any position) first, before whinging to the papers

That is the definition of hypocrisy. What Burt is doing wrong isn't as glaring as Grothe's four tries a game, he is subtle but he contributions are no less damaging, i realise you can't see this and that's why you have your view. But i see this and that's why i have my view.

 

[bartman]

That is the definition of hypocrisy.

Different approaches to different situations? I think you'll find that's not the definition....

Having the same approach to different situations, or different approaches to the same situations might be... so do you really just diagree with my two explanations of how Hayne and Reddy's sitautions are in fact different? Or what?

What Burt is doing wrong isn't as glaring as Grothe's four tries a game, he is subtle but he contributions are no less damaging, i realise you can't see this and that's why you have your view. But i see this and that's why i have my view.

How about you explain what you see, if you realise that others can't see it - that's what this place is here for... not to disagree for the sake of it, but to share opinions and explanations.

 

[Tekken Lord]

Form in general, this year? I thought you were saying Hayne's form previously as a fullback in a different season...

I think Hayne has offered us less on field than Burt this year. I guess we disagree on that most basic of considerations.


Fair enough. I wouldn't swap Burt thsi year for any of those myself. Again, I guess we just disagree on that.

I don't have a problem with disagreeing, and am happy to state an opinion, read others opinions, without needing everyone to share mine or criticising them if they don't. Thanks TL, it's been a good night's discussions.

Yes it has been a good discussion and hopefully when i wake up later today and am not so tired i will explain why that particular post was biased and hypocritical.

 

[Tekken Lord]

Different approaches to different situations? I think you'll find that's not the definition....

Having the same approach to different situations, or different approaches to the same situations might be... so do you really just diagree with my two explanations of how Hayne and Reddy's sitautions are in fact different? Or what?

One rule applying for one and not for the other is hypocrisy i believe we disagree because well i have no tolerance for hypocrisy and because i don't believe the situation has anything to do with whether it's hypocritical or not. So i guess i do disagree with your explanation for the difference in situations between Reddy and Hayne. Just noticed we disagree on pretty much everything...

How about you explain what you see, if you realise that others can't see it - that's what this place is here for... not to disagree for the sake of it, but to share opinions and explanations.

Well i realise you don't see it from the summation of what you've posted that is obviously the next step to the discussion. With Burt its a matter of absence of positive rather than glaring negatives, nothing about his play is positive he doesn't make metres he doesn't kick to space he doesn't provice a playmaking role he doesn't provide support play for the most part, he's not communicating with the team. And really i expect him to provide these basics that fill his role as a fullback.