I hate Full Tilt

[Tommy Smith]

And that's understandable - when you're on a downswing you feel like the world is against you.

In-fact, I'm taking a break from SnGs atm because my luck has been so terrible in them recently.

Fortunately I've been able to off-set that on the cash tables where copping a beat doesn't mean you're eliminated.

Anyway, it was nice to win a $200 pot today when my Aces held up against Kings - and very nice to cash for $2000 in the Sunday Millions last week.

In the meantime, here is a brain-teaser for you.

You hold A-A in early position and make a standard raise to 3bb. Two players flat call.

Flop is Q-10-5. You bet $7 and are raised to $16. You call.

The turn is another Q. You check and your opponent bets out $40.

What does he hold and what is your next action?

Well you'd have to think that if they were holding pocket 5s (maybe 10s) and were hoping to hit trips on the flop then they would have slow played the hand.

So after the betting on the flop you'd be more inclined to think that they either have A Q or KQ suited.

If it was A Q you could understand the re-raise as he had top-top. But then again it does seem like an overbet after the turn if he did have trip Qs. Maybe he was protecting against a flush or straight draw...

...Or maybe he had nothing and the overbet was to get you off the pot.

As they say, you play the man and not the cards so you'd have been in a much beter position than me to say.

 

[watatank]

Well you'd have to think that if they were holding pocket 5s (maybe 10s) and were hoping to hit trips on the flop then they would have slow played the hand.

So after the betting on the flop you'd be more inclined to think that they either have A Q or KQ suited.

If it was A Q you could understand the re-raise as he had top-top. But then again it does seem like an overbet after the turn if he did have trip Qs. Maybe he was protecting against a flush or straight draw...

I would have thought that re-raise is very small for an AQ or KQ.

 

[Ghoulies]

A couple of questions:

Are you playing full ring or 6 max? How deep are the stacks? What's the position of the flat callers? Any reads on them (i.e. are they loose or tight? passive or aggressive?)? What are the blinds?

 

[Tommy Smith]

I would have thought that re-raise is very small for an AQ or KQ.

My bad i was referring to the $40 bet after the turn.

Seemed abit of an overbet so you wouldnt imagine he had trip Qs. Unless if he was protecting against a potential flush draw.

 

[Ghoulies]

Well you'd have to think that if they were holding pocket 5s (maybe 10s) and were hoping to hit trips on the flop then they would have slow played the hand.

Hevy raised in early pos and the board kind of hits his range. If the villain wants to get Hevy's stack a raise is easily the best choice. Slow playing is much less prevalent than it was a while ago.

 

[Tommy Smith]

Depends.

If he puts Hevy on AA then yes the raise will probably get all of Hevy's chips. Same for KK or AQ.

But if he puts him on AK then Hevy could get away from the hand if the other player re-raises. But if he slow plays and Hevy hits his A or K on the turn he might get a few chips.

But again, it all depends on the player. How they are playing etc...

It always helps to mix it up of course.

 

[Ghoulies]

But it's about maximising your value against his entire range. If he has a set he isn't really happy to give AK that cheap of a turn (a jack would make AK the nuts), and the value he makes if Hevy hits a pair on the turn isn't enough to compensate him for the value lost by not raising the flop.

But again, it all depends on the player. How they are playing etc...

True. If Hevy had been playing very aggressively and was likely to bet further streets with hands not strong enough to call a raise, then slowplaying would be the correct play.

 

[HevyDevy]

I'm actually quite sure now that he had J-J.

 

[Tommy Smith]

You sure do gotta love Full Tilt.

I decided to have another go on the site.

And the 2nd heads-up game i play this happens:

Im holding J 5 and the flop comes

3 K 5

I make a small bet which he calls and the turn comes as a 5. We both check. He then makes a big bet on the river which was an A. I re-raise all-in. He calls.

Turns out he had pocket KK.

Two hands later im short stacked and go all in with K 10. He called with pocket KK.

You cant script this stuff. And dont even get me started about all the back-door flushes and AQs which continually beat my AK in the tourny before.

And if that wasnt enough my pocket 88s were getting beat on 7 5 2 flops when they naturally held pocket 22. And just after that my flush gets beaten by a full house on the river.

All this in two tournaments. I love it.

 

[Tommax25]

Hey what do you guys think of this play by me? So I had A-Q off in first position with blinds at 500 and 1000. I raised it to 4000. The player next to me instantly raises 5000 on top and another player calls all in but for a little less than the bet (I think 7500 or something). It comes back to me and I fold and they turn over trash! The 5000 re-raise player had Q-10 off and the caller had K-7 suited. When I see their hands I exclaim my amazement at what they had and say what I had and I get berrated for not calling/going all in with my A-Q off. Regardless of the next 5 cards (which incidentally I would have won but thats beside the point as I cant predict what comes out obviously) I thought I had made the right fold but the general opinion was that I was crazy to fold. Who was right, me or them?

 

[Tommy Smith]

Depends on the size of your stack and the fellas who re-raised you.

Your call would have been a further 5000 in a 22500 pot which gives you pot odds to have a look at the flop and probably check it down.

But again, depends on how many chips you had and whether the re-raiser was tight or aggressive.

If you had a large stack i'd have definately called. Smallish stack and you probably had to go all-in over the top as thered be no point calling and folding if you missed the flop.

 

[Tommax25]

That was a part of my problem as I had just been moved to this table so I had no idea what the players were like. As it turned out the re-raiser was extremely loose. I had 22000 before I raised to the 4000, the guy who made it 9000 had something like 40000. I figured it was all-in or fold because like you said there was no point calling and having to fold if I missed. I assumed he had A-Q covered the way he raised it so I wasnt going to put the last of my chips in with a losing hand, particuarly against two people, even though I had the other player covered.

 

[HevyDevy]

Without knowing the table you might have been best to fold A-Q pre-flop - basically not even play it at all.

There are plenty of pros that won't play A-Q in early position.

 

[watatank]

That depends on stakes though. If it's at micro levels that's a strong hand which is probably going to get paid off if the A hits

 

[HevyDevy]

It's still a 'trap' hand with a full table to act behind.

Or to be more precise it lingers between powerhouse and trap hand.

Personally I like to raise with it in early position and re-raise late. If I'm re-raised in either position I have to re-evaluate from there.

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

I still hate full tilt.

I play the odd $1 90 players sng there, along with the 2700 man freeroll which starts at about 3.30pm (the missus plays it until I get home). I cash regularly in it and the Aussie (which I can only play on Friday and Saturday nights because it starts at 8 and you need 4 hours to see the cash).

Anyway, last night there are 29 people left in the Freeroll (27 get paid), I'm on the button, running 28th with about 6 big blinds left, everyone folds to me and I have AA. I push all-in and am insta-called by the small blind, who has A/9 suited. He has about 3 times my chipstack.

Needless to say he his the flush on the turn and I was out.

The thing is that I knew exactly what was going to happen. It is that predictable. I even said to the missus that I should throw it away because if anyone calls, I'm a goner.

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

Here's another full tilt special that happens far too often.

Be the smaller stack of an all-in and have a dominating hand.

Say, AK v A8.

If they turn that over on me, I go watch tele because I'm out.

 

[HevyDevy]

Remember though that if you're going to commit you chips pre-stack on a regular basis you're going to run into trouble sooner or later - no matter what you hold.

Aces are, at best, a 4-1 favourite over any other hand. Most other hands aren't even that strong. So the maths says that if you're all in just three to four times pre-flop in a tournament you're almost certainly going to be eliminated in one of those hands NO MATTER WHAT YOU HOLD.

 

[watatank]

I play on Stars but anyways how's this for a sick beat.

I was playing a $4.40 180 man SnG for about 3.5 hours and it was down to the last 5 or so. I was slight chip leader with about 60-70K behind me (1K/2K blinds). It was folded to me on the button and holding QQ I make my standard raise to 5K and BB (short stack) shoves for his last 25K. There's no way I am folding QQ in that spot so I call, two hands have me crushed others one is a coin flip every other hand I am a huge favourite in. He shows me 33 and long story short, he spikes a four card flush on the river which cripples me. Later I went all in with 99 and run straight into the same guys AA and get out in 5th place which sucks because I could have been an overwhelming chip leader and potentially won over $200 instead of winning about $50 on a sick beat

 

[Everlovin' Antichrist]

Remember though that if you're going to commit you chips pre-stack on a regular basis you're going to run into trouble sooner or later - no matter what you hold.

Aces are, at best, a 4-1 favourite over any other hand. Most other hands aren't even that strong. So the maths says that if you're all in just three to four times pre-flop in a tournament you're almost certainly going to be eliminated in one of those hands NO MATTER WHAT YOU HOLD.

I understand that.

But not all the all-ins are for all my chips. I am certainly winning more often than losing simply because I am a tight aggressive player so when I do go all-in it's generally wih a premium hand. It's just that there comes a time when it really does get predictable.

Also, in the micros I play it pays to isolate the other player by going all-in. That works later in the tourneys but not early. Push all-in with Aces and you're liable to have 4 callers.

I know what I need to do, I need to get out of the micros and up to another level, but I have to be patient and build my BR in the micros to do that because it'll be a cold day in hell when I put my own money in it again.

I've started playing 25 cent 90's and 45's with some success. geniused early but they tend to settle down inside 1/2 an hour.