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If we miss the finals, should Tim Sheens walk

Should Sheens walk?

  • Yes

    Votes: 20 74.1%
  • No

    Votes: 7 25.9%

  • Total voters
    27

MacDougall

First Grade
Messages
5,744
Surely if we miss out this year, after building such a talented squad, and having such a great 2010 to build on... Sheens will have no choice but to stand down.

Yay or nay?
 

hybrid_tiger

Coach
Messages
11,684
There is more chance of us winning the minor premiership this year that Sheens standing down. Will never happen.
 

Magpies Forever

Juniors
Messages
2,208
Yes, he should, or be punted if there is any truth in accountability and performance under Humphreys but we all know Sheens wont walk. He would have to be pushed and we know Sheens knows more about WT and its management, then they know about Sheens.
 

Blackdiamond

Juniors
Messages
98
As said previously, he should, but won't.

I don't see too many other decent options out there?
Sticky = no way. Brown = no thanks. Elliot = maybe?
 

jmmyo81

Juniors
Messages
30
You know at the start of the year i would of said the same thing but after seeing what Ricky Stuart was able to do for the Blues this year im starting to think we could do a lot worse
 
Messages
3,741
Hey guys; have a read of this article by Ricky stuart, he makes some good points, the article is about the sacking of my coach but it has stuff on your coach also:

Heart and soul Bulldogs coach Kevin Moore takes the fall for misfiring playing roster


THE great inconsistency between the way players are treated against the way coaches are treated was highlighted this past week.

Tim Sheens was forced to defend the morale at the Wests Tigers because the club is in the middle of a succession plan and Sheens has released some players while giving others permission to negotiate at other clubs.

Yet Kevin Moore, at Canterbury, tried to stay loyal for as long as he could to his players and has paid the price. Meanwhile, none of the players have suffered a bruise for their actions.

Earlier this year, Jamal Idris took $400,000 to leave Canterbury and go to the Gold Coast and everyone says good on him for looking after himself. How would it have played out if Moore had told him to go, that he didn't want him at that price?

We all know what we sign on for as a coach, so I'm not going to sit here and tell you how we've got a bum deal.


But I will say that sacking the coach is the easy option, and one becoming far too convenient in the world of modern football. One of the things I really question these days is how much some players care for the result.

I've experienced before my own players walking over to the opposition smiling and laughing, without a care in the world. They weren't devastated by the loss. Yet they had a few laughs with the opposition, walked off together, and then my blokes walked into our dressing room seemingly without a care in the world. I let those individuals know I don't appreciate that type of attitude.

But, of course, not long after that I'm criticised for being too tough on players. Or the new buzzwords that seem to be going around, that you've "lost the dressing room".

That's a coach killer, no matter how inaccurate.

The biggest thing I try to impress on players is to take ownership of the result. It belongs to them. Everything they do affects it.

Yet I wonder how many players truly do take ownership of the result. How many are happy as long as they're being paid?

I felt sorry for Moore when his marquee player, Idris, signed elsewhere. Why is it OK for that to happen, but it's not OK for Sheens to say to some of his players that it's time to move on?

Somewhere, the balance is out of whack.

The problem is coaches are too often the easy fix these days.

You can't replace the players because that might require too many changes, too much negotiation, and too much money.

But all boards know they have to do something, because if they don't make changes then the fans will vote them out at the next election. The coach is the one left vulnerable in the middle.

So as soon as some teams struggle for results, like Wests, Canterbury and even the Gold Coast and Roosters in recent times, they shoot for the coach.

But the problems are usually unique to each club.

The Gold Coast are hanging strong at the moment, and provided the club continues to hold their nerve they will come through better for it.

The Gold Coast's problem can basically be traced back to Mat Rogers' retirement and the lack of a playmaker to complement Scott Prince. It's a void they're aware of but have been unable to fill as there's no longer an easy fix.

In the old days, before the salary cap, you could fix it easily. You would just go out on the market and buy the player you needed.

Now, the way deals are done, it's not that easy.

That's why clubs have to always be working on a succession plan - like Sheens is at this moment.

After we played our third grand final at the Roosters, Phil Gould told me I needed to start working on our succession plan by moving some players on. He is doing a similar thing at Penrith right now.

I didn't want to at Easts because they had been good to me, but that was my mistake.

I should have, because we got old and didn't have the players to replace them, because we had let the young blokes go to keep the ageing players we had.

If players are unhappy at Wests because of what Sheens has done, as has been alleged, they should realise that you can't have it both ways, they should get on with it.

You can't take the big offer elsewhere and just say you're doing the best for yourself without the possibility it might work the other way.

If Sheens doesn't go through what he is doing at the moment then before long he'll be the one looking for a job. In fact, the only ones that will be happy are the players he should have got rid of, because they'll still be there and still getting paid.

Who cares if they aren't winning? The way it seems to be, that's for the coach and the rest of the players who are carrying them to worry about


http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...g-playing-roster/story-e6frexnr-1226095960377


Really puts things into perspective.
 

madunit

Super Moderator
Staff member
Messages
62,358
no it doesn't, it shows the inane ramblings of a muppet with f**k all idea how to run a club on his own.

I'd feel sorry for you guys if you weren't the Bulldogs.
 

Tigerm

Coach
Messages
10,088
At the beginning of the season, I would have said yes, but I think he has to many reasons, why we have not performed & proably legitimate ones.

Injury, the player cleanout & players not performing.

I mean the players always say that they are prepared well, so for me, that is a good argument that the players have a bit to answer for as well. I mean he does seem to endorse the "pick & stick" theory, that is letting us down badly, so he does need to be spoken to? For me, we need a selection committee to steer this.

He should have went to Penrith, when he had the chance?

BUT next year, I think no more excuses.
 
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Das Hassler

Bench
Messages
3,191
No..not for missing the semis in 2011 if it happens...everyone has an opinion if he should be here or not for every reason from A-Z but (quote) "after building such a talented squad, and having such a great 2010 to build on"...with respect, half the f--kin' talent was in the stands week after week after week nursing their wounds..did ya notice that at all?? ..Sheens didn't injure Tiquiri, Lawrence, Ellis, Dwyer, Utai, Payten etc..all out for how long? ..how was Sheens supposed to use one of 2010's most potent left edge attacking combinations while they're out for 2/3 of the season? ...IF we miss out it will only be by a point or two if not only points +/- .. having just one or two of those guys on board would have won us a couple of games that would have ensured a semi spot by now..is that too much of a stretch to suggest ? Any ideas what Easts should do with Brian Smith?..how have they gone with injuries this year after their great 2010?..i don't think they've been too knocked around
 
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hybrid_tiger

Coach
Messages
11,684
Always so many f**king excuses.

Sorry, "reasons, not excuses" as the great man says.

Let's face it, we could get the spoon three years running and he'd still be there.
 

RHCP

Bench
Messages
4,784
Do you guys think it could be a case of Sheens being too close to the players?

From the outside looking in, the whole idea of a 'father/son' like relationship with Benji for example seems as if it would keep Sheens at the Tigers for as long as he wanted or until Benji retires, whatever happens first.
 

andrew9148

Juniors
Messages
514
When all the blokes went down I thought that maybe it was an excuse. And I still thinks its an explanation for why we are not top 4.

BUT now, almost all players are back, we have an ok draw, we dont need to win that many games, probably 4 or 5 more, and we are in the 8. If he cant keep us there, we have massive problems.
 
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