If we started the NRL from scratch, what teams would we have?

[juro]

Thinking about the Sydney areas, you could have Chatswood to cover the north, Parra for the northwest, Liverpool for the southwest, Kogarah for the south, and maybe Balmain or Bondi for the inner suburbs and the east.

 

[betcats]

Exactly, Western Sydney would need at least 3 teams. Not sure how it can be justified having 2 teams in the South West of Brisbane but one in Western Sydney.

It just doesnt make sense to me, 1 team for Melb and 1 team for WS which currently supports the Bulldogs, Parramatta, Penrith and West Tigers. I dont know the exact figures but three of those clubs must be among the best supported clubs in the nrl surely?

 

[Perth Red]

Pie in the sky I'd go:

NSW
3 Western Sydney
1 Sydney City
1 South Sydney
1 Southern Sydney Beaches
Newcastle

Q'land
2 Brisbane City
1 Brisbane SW
NQ
Gold Coast


Perth
Melbourne
Adelaide
Canberra

PNG
Auckland
Wellington

 

[betcats]

No way would the Central Coast not get a team if this ever occurred.



Edit: Perth red, do you mean Northern Sydney beaches?

 

[juro]

Pie in the sky I'd go:

NSW
3 Western Sydney
1 Sydney City
1 South Sydney
1 Southern Sydney Beaches
Newcastle

Q'land
2 Brisbane City
1 Brisbane SW
NQ
Gold Coast


Perth
Melbourne
Adelaide
Canberra

PNG
Auckland
Wellington

19 teams?

 

[Perth Red]

19 teams?

Leaving an expansion spot open!

 

[Perth Red]

No way would the Central Coast not get a team if this ever occurred.



Edit: Perth red, do you mean Northern Sydney beaches?

considered the CC but then thought if Newcastle get their act together with their new found billions then no reason Gosford can't become 2nd home for the Knights and would make them a mammoth club of they could succesfully incorporate that area into their catchment/supporter base. I did have a spare spot so CC could fill that.

 

[bazza]

I think we should go for a quality by limiting the competition to 8 teams
We should ensure big crowds by having lots of derby matches.
I have added a far flung team to give the competition a good spread and an exotic feel

Eastern Suburbs
South Sydney
North Sydney
Western Suburbs
Balmain
Newtown
Glebe
Newcastle

 

[firechild]

It just doesnt make sense to me, 1 team for Melb and 1 team for WS which currently supports the Bulldogs, Parramatta, Penrith and West Tigers. I dont know the exact figures but three of those clubs must be among the best supported clubs in the nrl surely?

Wests have less members than Manly yet we are constantly told by rival fans that Manly has no supporters. Perhaps Wests don't have any either?

As for the point, I think 2-3 Western sydney teams is a must. While The Dogs might be a bigger club than Penrith (or Wests for that matter), geographically it makes more sense to have Wests (SW), Penrith (W) and Parra would cover the north west. Wests' region would cover the existing dogs' territory.

So, I'd have:

Sydney City (Roosters, Balmain, Souths)
Sydney South (St George, Cronulla)
Sydney North (North Shore, Northern Beaches)
Penrith
Southwest Sydney
Parramatta

Illawarra
Newcatle
Central Coast

Brisbane
GC
NQ
Ipswitch
Sunshine Coast (or another SEQLD club)

WA
ACT
Melbourne

NZ North
NZ South

20 teams. Only possible change would be SA in which would mean 2 teams (SW, NW) in western Sydney.

 

[betcats]

considered the CC but then thought if Newcastle get their act together with their new found billions then no reason Gosford can't become 2nd home for the Knights and would make them a mammoth club of they could succesfully incorporate that area into their catchment/supporter base. I did have a spare spot so CC could fill that.

Thats no different to having a Sydney team play a couple of games up here. Newy is further from the Gosford then Sydney.

 

[betcats]

Wests have less members than Manly yet we are constantly told by rival fans that Manly has no supporters. Perhaps Wests don't have any either?

As for the point, I think 2-3 Western sydney teams is a must. While The Dogs might be a bigger club and Penrith (or Wests for that matter), geographically it makes more sense to have Wests (SW), Penrith (W) and Parra would cover the north west. Wests' region would cover the existing dogs' territory.

So, I'd have:

Sydney City (Roosters, Balmain, Souths)
Sydney South (St George, Cronulla)
Sydney North (North Shore, Northern Beaches)
Penrith
Southwest Sydney
Parramatta

Illawarra
Newcatle
Central Coast

Brisbane
GC
NQ
Ipswitch
Sunshine Coast (or another SEQLD club)

WA
ACT
Melbourne

NZ North
NZ South

20 teams. Only possible change would be SA in which would mean 2 teams (SW, NW) in western Sydney.

I think the main criticism is that your scum, but seriously i am suprised by that.

Also the three teams i bolded in my post are the ones i thought are the most supported, not the ones i want for a new comp, ill edit that.

 

[Goddo]

I'll add my two cents. My ideal 18 team comp would look like:

Firstly, 5 interstate/NZ teams, they are easiest:

Melbourne Storm - OzTam capital
Perth Reds - OzTam capital, unique timezone
Canberra Raiders - Major regional centre in ACT/NSW, National Capital
Auckland Warriors
NZ2 licence - 2 NZ sides uses timezone every week, creates derby in NZ, more opportunites to eat into RU in NZ. Population is there for a NRL side outside Auckland, nailing down where exactly is the harder part. Wellington probably, taking games elsewhere.
Adelaide not ready.

Queensland:

Gold Coast Titans
North Queensland Cowboys - Cairns/Townsville regional centre
Brisbane Broncos - City licence metro area
Ipswich/Logan - Southern suburban belt, metro area - new stadium
Brisbane North/Sunshine Coast/Redcliffe - Northern/coastal belt, metro area - Cronulla or Manly relocation - new stadium

Now the bit that will p!ss a few people off... NSW.

Newcastle Knights
St George Illawarra Dragons - city southern districts plus Wollongong - partly metro
Central Coast/Northern Sydney Bears - northern districts plus CC - partly metro (basically what the Northern Eagles should have been)
Sydney Roosters - CBD/Eastern Suburbs
Parramatta Eels - Geographic centre of city
Wests Tigers - playing out of ANZ rather than SFS for 4 games. Otherwise as is.
Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs - ANZ fulltime. Only team that has really made that joint their own. If they were to part time share with a Liverpool facility with Wests that would work too.
South Sydney Rabbitohs - but shifted back to SFS

Sharks, Sea Eagles and Panthers to merge or relocate where apropriate. Panthers junior areas absorbed by Parramatta/Wests. Sharks areas absorbed by Souths/St George/Sydney.

If we went to 20 team ideal comp, I'd have

Penrith Panthers and one of Cronulla Sutherland Sharks OR Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles. One to relocate, or retain both with no expansion on Central Coast.

With the Rabbitohs, Roosters, Tigers, Eels, Bulldogs playing partly at SFS/ANZ/SCG I'd come to some sort of membership ticketing arangement for games between these clubs. Dragons every second year (ANZAC host) too.

EDIT:

I'd also have the 4 South Queensland clubs playing at least 2 games each at Suncorp to get a Brisbane city ticketing/membership derby structure. Titans, Broncos, Ipswich-Logan and Sunshine Coast. 1 Big central stadium and 3 satellite 27-32k venues.

 

[Hench]

North QLD Cowboys
Central QLD Comets
Brisbane Broncos
Ipswich Jets
Gold Coast Titans
Parramatta Panthers
Wests Tigers
Newcastle Knights
St.George-Cronulla Dragons
South Sydney Rabbitohs
Eastern Suburbs Roosters
Canterbury-Bankstown Bulldogs
Central Coast Eagles
Canberra Raiders
Melbourne Storm
New Zealand Warriors

 

[Raider_69]

18 teams.
3 divisions, each team plays their division rivarlies twice and each of the other teams once. Making an 22 game season. Seperate weekends for origin and tests (adding a NZ origin series and adding a PNG V Samoa/Tonga test) for a 26 week competition that limits player burn out + 4 week finals series

*admittably i havent put more than 10 seconds thought into these divisions, so there is a probably a better way to group them to maximise traditional rivalries and thus maximise crowds and revenue

Div 1:
Brisbane Broncos
Nth Qld Cowboys
Gold Coast Titans
Perth Reds
Adalaide Sharks
NZ Warriors

Div 2: All playing out of either the SFS or Australia Stadium and an upgraded Western Sydney location

Parramatta Eels
Sydney Roosters
Wests Tigers
Canterbury Bulldogs
St George Illawarra Dragons
South Sydney Rabbitohs

Div 3:
Newcastle Knights
Manly Sea-Eagles
Central Coast Bears
Canberra Raiders
Melbourne Storm
Penrith Panthers

Top 2 from each division go through to the semis, and 2 wild cards from the remaining teams

And next FTA agreement, 2 new clubs to be set up QLD Logan and a 2nd NZ team
creating 20 team comp. In which 4 divisions of 5 teams (restructured again to better suit), for a 23 round season, seperate weeks for origin and tests for 27 week competition (we can start a week earlier if they want to keep the GF on the long weekend) + 4 week finals series

ohh and id sell each tv time slot off seperately, as well as internet coverage of games, SOO and test matches all seperately. Naming rights would also be sold for truer value. No mates rates, highest bidder wins.

 

[firechild]

Div 1:
Brisbane Broncos
Nth Qld Cowboys
Gold Coast Titans
Perth Reds
Adalaide Sharks
NZ Warriors

Div 2: All playing out of either the SFS or Australia Stadium and an upgraded Western Sydney location

Parramatta Eels
Sydney Roosters
Wests Tigers
Canterbury Bulldogs
St George Illawarra Dragons
South Sydney Rabbitohs

Div 3:
Newcastle Knights
Manly Sea-Eagles
Central Coast Bears
Canberra Raiders
Melbourne Storm
Penrith Panthers

FAIL. Manly in a different division to their 2 biggest rivals (Wests and Parra)? Sh!t idea.

 

[Raider_69]

As said in the edit, i didnt give much thought to the divisions, im sure someone would have more than 10 seconds to think of better divisions

 

[Perth Red]

Manly could play those two teams as their out of division games each year. I like the idea and would be a better way of structuring the league to build up rivalary rather that the current ad hoc fixturing wherwe some teams don't play each other at home for ages. Wouldn't want to go to the NFL system though where it is conference winners that go through to the playoffs rather than the best teams.

 

[Goddo]

Raider 69, your expansion plan is extremely risky. Pushing Cronulla from the frying pan (the Shire/Sydney) into a fire (Adelaide) there.

Which would be ok if the expansion was really stable. But you go for Central Coast (so NSW retains the same number of licences with only a slight improvement on market reach) and Perth (kind of risky). And you completely ignore where the big money in expansion will be (Queensland).

Adelaide and Perth won't happen at the same time, and Adelaide is a number of years away.
The game needs South Queensland to have another side.
NSW might need a tidy up.
Then Wellington is a consideration.

I'd change the order you do things.

 

[firechild]

As said in the edit, i didnt give much thought to the divisions, im sure someone would have more than 10 seconds to think of better divisions

I know, I'm just giving you sh!t. I'm sure with input from clubs regarding prefered rivalries something could be worked out.

 

[Raider_69]

Raider 69, your expansion plan is extremely risky. Pushing Cronulla from the frying pan (the Shire/Sydney) into a fire (Adelaide) there.

Which would be ok if the expansion was really stable. But you go for Central Coast (so NSW retains the same number of licences with only a slight improvement on market reach) and Perth (kind of risky). And you completely ignore where the big money in expansion will be (Queensland).

Adelaide and Perth won't happen at the same time, and Adelaide is a number of years away.
The game needs South Queensland to have another side.
NSW might need a tidy up.
Then Wellington is a consideration.

The thread is ment to be about the ideal comp structure. Yours is less than ideal.

You make some very good points, no question and if i were the king pin and starting from scratch id definitely strongly consider putting the CC on the back burner and putting 2nd brisbane team in ahead of them, but what i posted (with exception of the pools as that would require more thinking than ive done thus far) would be pretty much the way i see our ideal basic structure.

I agree with Perth Red re the finals series. I dont think we have the teams to do conferences. So im happy to put the top 2 from each division through (once we're at 20 teams) and until then have 2 wild cards, or even just a top 6 until then. Or even still an over all record for the finals but then teams might bitch about missing out because they play in a tougher division, thus play more tougher games which limites their finals series chances.

the idea of division games and winning the division to make the finals is a great way to build rivarlies. Because you have to beat the other people in your division to make the finals, those games become so much more important, you play them twice a year so 2 wins gives you not only 4 points but takes 4 points off a divisional rival.... i can garantee you within 10 years of a divisional system, even if you liked them before, you'll grow to genuinely loathe the divisional rivals. Because their success even as far as just the finals ultimately means they've directly contributed to your early season exit