Is Cleary a dud?

[tripster]

To me Cleary is basically Cooper Cronk with much better defense and a worse kicking game. Cronk rarely plays off the cuff because he only plays to structure. He doesn't have great instincts but what he has is playing in a team with the two best attacking structures in the game (Storm/ Roosters) along with players who cover up his weakness. Penrith's attacking structure is nowhere near the Storm and we don't have guys who bring something similar to Smith, Tedesco/Slater in those key positions.

What Cooper Cronk does have is toughness, work ethic in preparation and training, a competitive spirit from which he does all the little 1%ers and a cool head in pressure situations all of which Cleary does have.

I think this sums up Cleary perfectly. The only thing I am not yet sure of about Cleary is whether he has the brains (not so much football brains but actual intelligence) that is needed to be an excellent game manager like Cronk or Smith. Time will tell.

 

[Kilkenny]

Two incredible plays under massive pressure credit where credit is due. Amazing.

 

[Pomoz]

RCG has to average 130m per game, develop an offload, get a quick play the ball and start to bust some tackles to scatter the defensive line. For what he is being paid this should be the expectation.

Right now he is a prop who struggles to make 100m per game consistently, never offloads or breaks a tackle and gets put on his back too much. The role he is playing can be filled by someone on 200k.

He is starting to get significant tackle counts now as well. 38 tackles at 90.5% gains the Tigers and 111 metres. Thats a good work load, but he can do better. I think you're being a bit hard on him. Recovering from a smashed jaw that he then broke again, albeit not as bad. I now there are concerns about his attitude, but I think he can change that.

Leota is a 200k prop and he rarely makes 100m or 30 plus tackles.

 

[Flashstep]

He is starting to get significant tackle counts now as well. 38 tackles at 90.5% gains the Tigers and 111 metres. Thats a good work load, but he can do better. I think you're being a bit hard on him. Recovering from a smashed jaw that he then broke again, albeit not as bad. I now there are concerns about his attitude, but I think he can change that.

Leota is a 200k prop and he rarely makes 100m or 30 plus tackles.

Just to add onto your RCG jaw injury note, if you think about it over the last few years injuries have really f**ked us, not only during seasons forcing us to constantly chop and change our teams but because so many players are prone to injury it means they are forced to build up their form once again, we’ve seen plenty of players “regress” lately but we need to remember not many athletes can come back from repeated injuries and hit the ground running, unfortunately it takes time to reach the level they’ve shown prior to injury and then to reach new heights, if a lot of our players can just stay fit (which seems like asking a lot knowing our record) I think our squad can develop into a really good team.

 

[franklin2323]

He is starting to get significant tackle counts now as well. 38 tackles at 90.5% gains the Tigers and 111 metres. Thats a good work load, but he can do better. I think you're being a bit hard on him. Recovering from a smashed jaw that he then broke again, albeit not as bad. I now there are concerns about his attitude, but I think he can change that.

Leota is a 200k prop and he rarely makes 100m or 30 plus tackles.

What would Leota do if he played the same gametime?

 

[Pomoz]

What would Leota do if he played the same gametime?

Is that after he has had his jaw smashed and rebuilt or before?

 

[Frankus]

To me Cleary is basically Cooper Cronk with much better defense and a worse kicking game. Cronk rarely plays off the cuff because he only plays to structure. He doesn't have great instincts but what he has is playing in a team with the two best attacking structures in the game (Storm/ Roosters) along with players who cover up his weakness. Penrith's attacking structure is nowhere near the Storm and we don't have guys who bring something similar to Smith, Tedesco/Slater in those key positions.

What Cooper Cronk does have is toughness, work ethic in preparation and training, a competitive spirit from which he does all the little 1%ers and a cool head in pressure situations all of which Cleary does have.

Big call saying Cleary has better defence than Cronk. They are probably even in that department, I’d even lean slightly towards Cronk.

Cleary is better than Cronk was at the same age. He still has areas for improvement. If he goes on to have half the career Cooper had, he’s done well.

 

[franklin2323]

Is that after he has had his jaw smashed and rebuilt or before?

Injuries are part of footy. If he isn't fit mentality to play than coach shouldn't pick him. I am sure Ellis or Grant would love his spot

 

[Panther_Daz]

Recovering from a smashed jaw that he then broke again, albeit not as bad. I now there are concerns about his attitude, but I think he can change that.

That's a myth. His numbers before and after his broken jaw last year were pretty much the same.

 

[Panfa]

Nothing gives you more confidence than winning boys look at the titans losing can be infectious they have lost 4 in a row and are struggling.We need to back this win over the tigers up and beat the titans now cant keep going 1 win 1 loss all yr need to put a few together in a row.

 

[Buzzard Breath]

They're not best mates, but Gus wants Cleary to take his Panthers job
By Danny Weidler
April 6, 2019 — 10.00pm
If Phil Gould has his way, Ivan Cleary will take his job one day as Penrith’s general manager.

As recent events at Penrith have shown, Gould does not always get his way. But Gould knows the qualities Cleary has. It’s an indication of the regard in which he holds Cleary.

Gould loves the Panthers: the players, the juniors, the club. He saved them with the help of James Packer after the club faced serious financial difficulties in 2011.

Gould wouldn’t ask someone to take over his job if he didn’t think he was highly capable. He made Ivan’s son Nathan the highest-paid player in Penrith history.

It is true the pair are not best mates. Gould didn’t appoint Cleary. Wests Tigers want to believe he did; they want to hate Gus for it. And Gould doesn’t mind being the bad guy.


Ivan’s defection to the Panthers created plenty of drama and this column was ridiculed for saying Gould didn’t hatch the plan to lure Cleary from the Tigers. It didn’t suit the narrative. Everyone wanted to believe that Gould sacked Anthony Griffin and Gould appointed Cleary.
Gould wanted to wait until the season was over before moving on Griffin. The board told him he had to act with just a few weeks left in the season because Cleary was going to tell the Tigers he was bound for Penrith. Gould did as he was told.

He took a phone call from the head of Fox Sports Steve Crawley. He wanted to know if Gould was interested in Wayne Bennett as coach. Crawley is a trusted friend of Bennett. They have known each other for years.

Bennett then called Gould and two of the game’s biggest names agreed to meet.

Gould liked his motivation and there was a handshake deal. For the next three days Gould thought he had a new coach for the Panthers. When the Panthers football committee met, Gould was told by their chairman there was a good chance Cleary was joining the Panthers and that he was about to ask for a release from the Tigers. Gould was stunned and tried to call Bennett straight away. Bennett was on a plane and couldn’t be contacted. Not everything goes to plan for Gould.

His idea was that Bennett would coach for the next two seasons before Cleary took over.
Cleary has had heart-to-heart chats with Gould since taking on the coaching job at Penrith. He leans on Gould for advice.

Will Gould stick around for the length of Cleary’s contract? That is a tough one to answer. He didn’t want to discuss that or anything that appears in this column today.
The Sharks would like to have Gould in some capacity, but he wouldn’t even entertain an offer, even though it would be easy as it’s close to his home and his son is in the Cronulla system.

Gould recently signed a four-year extension at Penrith, but was considering his options after the sex tape scandal derailed the club’s pre-season. That has hurt him far more than any coaching issue.

Gould is an unpredictable beast. But one thing is certain: he loves the Panthers and wants to leave the club in good shape.

Then his job may be done.
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/nrl/th...to-take-his-panthers-job-20190406-p51bk1.html

 

[franklin2323]

That would be the best outcome for all. Everyone seems to love Ivan.. He just isn't a good coach

 

[herbert henry1908]

I notice Ivan Cleary coached teams have struggled to score points in recent years, could be more to do with the roster he has available to him, but it’s a trend to watch.

2008 - 20.9
2009 - 15.7
2010 - 22.5
2011 - 21
2012 - 17
2013 - 20.6
2014 - 21
2015 - 16.6
2017 - 17.2
2018 - 15.7
2019 - 9.75

 

[franklin2323]

I notice Ivan Cleary coached teams have struggled to score points in recent years, could be more to do with the roster he has available to him, but it’s a trend to watch.

2008 - 20.9
2009 - 15.7
2010 - 22.5
2011 - 21
2012 - 17
2013 - 20.6
2014 - 21
2015 - 16.6
2017 - 17.2
2018 - 15.7
2019 - 9.75

We matched those under hook and simple game plans..not a good sign going forward

 

[Pomoz]

That's a myth. His numbers before and after his broken jaw last year were pretty much the same.

I think "myth" is a strong word. Perhaps you have some data to reinforce your opinion? RCG got picked for SOO because of his strong running game and aggression. After he broke his jaw his metres decreased. I can't get the stats to support this, perhaps you have them?

 

[Panther_Daz]

I think "myth" is a strong word. Perhaps you have some data to reinforce your opinion? RCG got picked for SOO because of his strong running game and aggression. After he broke his jaw his metres decreased. I can't get the stats to support this, perhaps you have them?

In 2018, RCG averaged 102m per game before the broken jaw and 98m per game after it.

 

[age.s]

I don't want Ivan in charge of his sons contract.

 

[age.s]

Just on the injury thing, while I have sympathy for players who's playing ability has been crushed due to injury, it's not something we should be taking into account when judging how much a player is worth to our squad. If RCG's injury turned him from a player offering us $800k worth of playing value to a player offering us $400k (and I understand that's in question) then we'd be overpaying him at $800k. Simple as that.

For example, as sad as it is it's the correct move for the club to not be paying Corey Waddell.

 

[Pomoz]

Just on the injury thing, while I have sympathy for players who's playing ability has been crushed due to injury, it's not something we should be taking into account when judging how much a player is worth to our squad. If RCG's injury turned him from a player offering us $800k worth of playing value to a player offering us $400k (and I understand that's in question) then we'd be overpaying him at $800k. Simple as that.

For example, as sad as it is it's the correct move for the club to not be paying Corey Waddell.

Its only relevant in giving them time to recover before saying they are no good any more.

 

[Pomoz]

In 2018, RCG averaged 102m per game before the broken jaw and 98m per game after it.

Where did you get your data from? The NRL site is useless for that analysis.