Is Cleary a dud?

[franklin2323]

once we get some of the injured back you will see the improvment .that in itself will see ploders like galea gone.yes there will be a clean out and lets face it we need it

Cowboys, Warriors game only Smith and Gordon out.

Yet Ciraldo and Newton started. In those games as usual Ciraldo stood at 5/8 and looked like he could run a marathon post game. On the weekend we had a fit Daniela yet played Simmons/Tighe centres.

Same game we couldn't tackle Taylor yet not one single change. Could of tried Plum or Burns or both out that side instead but no. The coach isn't smart enough to do that.

 

[Mr Angry]

Mr Angry, I seriously wonder... did he sleep with your cat? Did he kick a sideline conversion back in the day against the Sharks?

Do not dislike the man, just do not rate his coaching, which this thread is about.

Seems a very professional decent human.

 

[franklin2323]

Do not dislike the man, just do not rate his coaching, which this thread is about.

Seems a very professional decent human.

He is a good guy I have met him a few times. Always goes to Windsor games which is great. Just terrible team selections and tactics.

 

[abpanther]

f**k me you guys are quick to judge, ridiculous.

 

[Mr Angry]

quick, Cleary has been a coach for years mate.

 

[abpanther]

I'm talking about his performance so far with this mob

 

[franklin2323]

f**k me you guys are quick to judge, ridiculous.

As a fan could say you was happy he left Tighe, Taumata and Ciraldo struggling with Taylor after 1/2 time? Surely moving Burns/Plum was worth a shot? The same thing last week the right was struggling move better defenders out that side.

I went WTF when Simmons/Tighe were named as centres. Have we won a penalty count this year? Missing 20+ tackles a game is unacceptable.

It's like the Elliott era. with our top 17 on the field a decent team. A few players out or an opposition coach that has good tactics we lose.

 

[franklin2323]

I'm talking about his performance so far with this mob

He picks them. He trains them. Post match on Sunday he said. "It's disappointing because they were playing for their futures today" Only Taumata, Achurch and Uaisele is unsigned that took the field

 

[age.s]

I'm talking about his performance so far with this mob

Most people here saying it's too early to tell tbf.

 

[Mr Angry]

I'm talking about his performance so far with this mob

Yeah ok, Jennings to Windsor, the Lewis insult, which Panthers do you see improvement in?

As for squad, 3 SoO players.

Are you really happy with the selections, bench rotation?

Defensive patterns, attacking structure?

People confuse critical observation with dislike.

I do however think all grades will benefit from the professional attitude that filters from the head down.

 

[Iafeta]

He picks them. He trains them. Post match on Sunday he said. "It's disappointing because they were playing for their futures today" Only Taumata, Achurch and Uaisele is unsigned that took the field

I still don't see how thats a wrong comment though mate. Sure some of them may not be out of contract till the end of the year. But, a lot of people do things and make choices for things far further away than a year. I did a degree, it was never a short term payoff.. similarly, some of those blokes he's referring to are potentially playing for upgrades, or if they're not retained at the Panthers in the next 2 odd years, their performances now are going to stick in coaches minds as to how much coin they want to throw at them to get them.

For mine, he inherited a fairly poor squad. Some very good players granted, but quite a few nuffies that seem to be there to offset the players on massive cash signed by the previous administration. It'll take 2-3 years to weed that nonsense out of the joint, and by that point, Penrith will be bearing the fruits of the great effort of Cleary, Gould, and the blokes coaching at Windsor and in NYC. You have some outstanding cattle coming through, much like the Warriors are showing this year, it won't pay off in the first couple of years, they too will need to gain experience. But those types of junior pathway teams that do stick together and come through together I firmly believe do consistently become the cream of the crop. The Storm had a great scouting system for years, and look at them now, even after all the stuff they (rightfully) went through.

 

[Iafeta]

Yeah ok, Jennings to Windsor, the Lewis insult, which Panthers do you see improvement in?

As for squad, 3 SoO players.

Are you really happy with the selections, bench rotation?

Defensive patterns, attacking structure?

People confuse critical observation with dislike.

I do however think all grades will benefit from the professional attitude that filters from the head down.

Again, speaking about the Warriors, the defensive patterns at the club have gone back miles since Cleary was coach. Talking to a couple of people who have had a bit to do with Ivan, the perception he's soft and doesn't want to criticise or make the tough calls seems to be a myth due to his soft nature with the media, I've heard from a few that he is brutally honest in house.

 

[franklin2323]

Ausguy. That's why I made this thread. I am seeing things like all you mentioned and no improvement.

I can handle strange selections if we change tactics to match but we don't. We play 3 props but don't play a game to use fast guys through the ruck.

Look at the Melbourne game we take Jennings off bring on Galea Bellamy gets them to attack that side.

Round 1. After Simmons is off we have Lewis & Smith on the same side Hasler sends traffic that side. They win the game.

Jennings/Uaisele was great on the same side. Uaisele gets hurt comes back hasn't been on the left since. I mentioned our last 2 games mid game no changes to fix it.

 

[Mr Angry]

Again, speaking about the Warriors, the defensive patterns at the club have gone back miles since Cleary was coach. Talking to a couple of people who have had a bit to do with Ivan, the perception he's soft and doesn't want to criticise or make the tough calls seems to be a myth due to his soft nature with the media, I've heard from a few that he is brutally honest in house.

Well again my observation is he is far from soft. I imagine he can be quite brutual as you put it.

Does not look like someone who suffers fools.

Any backward step at the Warriors is more a reflection on Bluey.

I see others coaches get great results from average players, really bring on thier juniors without canning them, I see players improve, and not just because they have more experience.

If you can tell me a couple of players Ivan has really squeezed from this year, I might of missed it.

They seemed to play just as well under Elliot.

Then look at Frank under Des, must kill you blokes.

 

[Iafeta]

He had some epic nuffies at the Warriors that he did a good job with, and there were other players who hugely improved into very good players. Luck came to the Warriors as a fringe first grade bench player, Lillyman was going nowhere fast, even blokes like George Gatis played career best football under him. Before being injured, there's no doubt in my mind Wade McKinnon played his best football under him, and frankly, any coach who can take a mob to the finals with Grant Rovelli at halfback is going well. Before the Warriors were willing to really invest in the junior development pathways, Ivan had to take in some muts from Australia who were average journeyman to make ends meet, and in most cases they did a good job under him. Some of those blokes who couldn't consistently crack first grade elsewhere have become highly touted players, a great example is James Maloney.

He also is a guy who generally makes good judgments on blokes. Vatuvei's an example. He was hounded after that Parramatta match. Ivan kept the faith in him and had confidence in him. I think its fair to say Manu repaid him in spades. He also had the nuts to say Steve Price's time had passed as captain and installed Simon Mannering as captain, knowing the future of the squad was going to be young, including Mannering, and he needed time to develop.

Outstanding coach and exactly what Penrith need, and need to stick by for 5 years.

 

[Mr Angry]

Fair enough. Agree to disagree.

Anyways I always wish the panthers well.

 

[franklin2323]

Mr Angry. You are right about Des. Manly last year. Bulldogs this year both different styles. He adapted for the roster he had. They needed backs so he bought them. Can use the backs more now if he wants.

Lets look at some players pre Cleary and this year.

Coote- Ball playing more. Tactics don't suit his play.

Jennings- Still gets no ball.

Grant- Yes where he should be.

Weston- not much improvement

McKendry- Worse.

Lewis- Well down on form.

Plum- can't remember a big hit from him. Doesn't do much with the ball.

Burns, Walsh, Kingston are still no better or worse then prior years.

All will get plenty of game time next year we should have tactics/gameplans in place around these players now. Then add the newbies makes us stronger.

 

[Kilkenny]

It's too convenient to blame Ivan Cleary. He was never going to turn the current playing group around into contenders.

We have made more quality signings for a new season than I can remember so let's judge him based on his results in 2013.

Once we see who is going to be let go for next season and I suspect there will be some high profile, highly paid players off loaded let's see who our top 25 makeup is and judge him this time in 2013. If we are competing for the spoon at this time of the season next year then perhaps we have cause for concern.

 

[franklin2323]

Only 1 NYC player made Windsor debut despite being told several will with a look towards the future. Our best player wanting out. A player never given a chance goes well for Canberra the 2nd week in arow. A great week for our wonderful coach & management.

 

[Iafeta]

franklin, I remember Warriors fans giving it to Cleary for Seluini - how much of a gun he was and how stupid the coach was, and that he'd kill it at Penrith. There was a virtual Nafe watch for his first few games for the Panthers. Nafe was ok, but certainly the step up has proven to be a big one for a player like him.... I'm just putting that out in there in relation to the Canberra player comment.

I think what you need to realise is he's not, never was, and nor should ever have been thought of as a coach who's going to turn your club around on a six-pence. But, he will make the necessary changes to see a change in the club. I saw an interesting piece from Lewis Brown last week on if he was still comfortable going to Penrith, which he absolutely is as he believes in Cleary, and it was interesting Lewis has heard (whether its general league discussion amongst players I don't know) that the players seemed to be run the asylum at Penrith... disorganised at training, ill disciplined, that sort of thing. I wouldn't see Luke Lewis being like that FTR, but what I'm saying is sometimes there is a cultural element that is a deeper concern than the immediate player roster that a guy like Ivan Cleary will do significant body shots about until he turns it around. And the club, like the Warriors, will benefit in the long run.