Is Cleary a dud?

[franklin2323]

i think the point Franklin is making is if you pick the same players you get the same results.Cleary needs to take some chances with the windsor boys.Picking Ciraldo Simpkins and Galea in the same forward pack gives zero muscle and meters gained

Spot on. The week we pick a bench of Achurch, Shackleton, Robinson. we win same team the next week and go back to back. Who would think if you pick a big bench you have impact all game?

I understand injuries happen but every team gets them good coaches cover them. Round 1 he had Lewis on the left to help Lewis get ball. Gordon on the right to help the right gain metres. Gordon goes down and no plan b. Jennings still gets no ball. Do some set moves off a scrum or something that gets the ball in the good players hands.

Getting a hammering from the Storm yet only a winger and a benchy get dropped

 

[betcats]

Maybe your RL knowledge isnt good enough to recognise plan b.

 

[franklin2323]

I agree its to early to judge given the squad he has had to work with and the changes he had to make this season. According to some he is a dud though.

Hmm so not completing a set after we scored EVERY try against the Tigers is because of a poor squad?
Being up by 12 with 10 left against Parra at home and losing is because of a poor squad?
Having 60% of the ball in the 1st 40 yesterday for 1 try is a poor squad?

Basic errors are killing us. Even in winable games. We will never compete with the big guns but even the easier games we don't play well in.

 

[franklin2323]

Maybe your RL knowledge isnt good enough to recognise plan b.

OK fanboy what's plan B? no one can tell me

 

[betcats]

Hmm so not completing a set after we scored EVERY try against the Tigers is because of a poor squad?
Being up by 12 with 10 left against Parra at home and losing is because of a poor squad?
Having 60% of the ball in the 1st 40 yesterday for 1 try is a poor squad?

Basic errors are killing us. Even in winable games. We will never compete with the big guns but even the easier games we don't play well in.

Yes Yes and partly yes atleast.

 

[betcats]

I dont know plan b, im still not up to date with plan A.

You should call Gus and let him know you have some advice for Ivan, im sure he'd be really interested in what lineups you would run out and how you would attack, supercoach.

I am still undecided on Ivan as a coach, but i am in no doubt he knows a shitload more about coaching RL then i ever will. So i think i will judge him on our results and player developement rather then whether his game plans and team line ups agree with what I(or you) would do.

Obviously results haven't been good but im willing to let this season slide due to numerous reasons.

 

[franklin2323]

Yes Yes and partly yes atleast.

Well drilled sides don't make simple basic errors like that. Again yesterday we were held up on the last. handover tackle 3 a penalty that set they score. That is nothing to do with skills it's dumb errors. You can have the best team on paper but if you do basic errors like that you won't win games.

I coach juniors our team is pretty average playing wise. but we hold the ball don't give away penalties get the defensive line set quickly. Get quick play the balls. We have a few simple moves off scrums wrap arounds blind side plays etc. The same could be done in NRL

 

[franklin2323]

I dont know plan b, im still not up to date with plan A.

You should call Gus and let him know you have some advice for Ivan, im sure he'd be really interested in what lineups you would run out and how you would attack, supercoach.

I am still undecided on Ivan as a coach, but i am in no doubt he knows a shitload more about coaching RL then i ever will. So i think i will judge him on our results and player developement rather then whether his game plans and team line ups agree with what I(or you) would do.

Obviously results haven't been good but im willing to let this season slide due to numerous reasons.

We don't score points that's fine if we are good in defence. We are neither. apart from Grant every other player is down on what they can produce. Austin and Siejka haven't improved. Results aren't to be all for me. Generally we look poor. I have only seen Mansour run back for the quick tap. The 1% things are where we fall down in 90% of games.

 

[maple_69]

I'm starting to get a bit worried. The recruitment has been first class. I can't remember ever being this satisfied with a Penrith recruitment drive, especially at this time of the season.

I guess the worry is, great we've got some fantastic players for the squad now, some young guys with a lot of potential, but if we still see Ciraldo in first grade I'm going to be really disappointed.

I'm also wondering why we haven't given VTK a run. He has killed it all year despite our recent form slump. Obviously 2nd tier cap isn't an issue (or Gus is ignoring it) as we debuted Robinson a few weeks back. The plan stated by Gus himself was to give VTK a brief run at the end of the year in firsts and yet we haven't seen it..

 

[franklin2323]

Obviously 2nd tier cap isn't an issue

We bought Shackleton as well so the offloading of Seluini and Earl fixed it

 

[betcats]

The way i see it is average players have average skills and make average decisions which leads to mistakes. On top of that we have the least creative halves ever in Burns and Walsh, which makes us take throw the ball around like the globetrotters cause our halves cannot create space, which in turn leads to mistakes.

You can drill average players as hard as you want but at the end of the day they are still average players.

I reckon on average this season atleast a third to half of our team each week is out of their depth.

 

[Big Mick]

I don't buy this Plan B BS.

All teams if you take out their best players struggle.

Look at the Storm.

Only Billy Slater was out pretty much...and they lose 5 games in a row.

Explain that. Bellamy a shit coach? What was his plan B?

You can't win if you don't have the players fit and able to contribute. Simple as that.

 

[chrisD]

Instead of Coote evolving our attack it's like our attack is devolving Coote. It's bringing him down rather than him lifting it up.

I have no answers but to blame Walsh, for everything.

 

[abpanther]

Gordon, Mansour and Jennings were doing a mountain of work and made heaps of metres, I agree with the notion that our backrow is simply not performing.

 

[maple_69]

Top 5 metre makers were Gordon, Mansour, Simmons, Grant and Jennings. The whole backline, including Coote and Walsh (who is taking on the line a lot more which is great) made 925m.

The other 10 blokes who are supposed to make metres made 657. Tim Grant didn't have his best game and he was head and shoulders ahead of the other forwards.

 

[franklin2323]

I don't buy this Plan B BS.

All teams if you take out their best players struggle.

Look at the Storm.

Only Billy Slater was out pretty much...and they lose 5 games in a row.

Explain that. Bellamy a shit coach? What was his plan B?

You can't win if you don't have the players fit and able to contribute. Simple as that.

Did they get smashed? Of course attack would suffer but they still did the little things right and defence was still strong. Did they use 3 different fb's to try and cover?

That's what you do if you are struggling

So not once have you thought we should of done more with the ball that game? Or what a stupid thing to do. Why did we pick that player? We should of been up 18-0 yesterday we had plenty of ball early on. Canberra's hardly a strong team in defence. Same with Parra we owned that 1st half yet only got 3 tries.

We scored against Tigers. 3rd tackle McKendry drops it. they score. We score again. McKendry drops it early on. We score then McKendry plays it sideways. 3 times a top play not a unco.

 

[franklin2323]

The way i see it is average players have average skills and make average decisions which leads to mistakes. On top of that we have the least creative halves ever in Burns and Walsh, which makes us take throw the ball around like the globetrotters cause our halves cannot create space, which in turn leads to mistakes.

You can drill average players as hard as you want but at the end of the day they are still average players.

I reckon on average this season atleast a third to half of our team each week is out of their depth.

Jennings, Lewis, McKendry, Gordon (injured fair enough), Grant, Coote. 6 starter rep players. Compare to Sharks or Tigers. Or better still Roosters and Parra. Sure none are 1/2's there's enough for us to atleast match last year's 9 wins.

 

[franklin2323]

Gordon, Mansour and Jennings were doing a mountain of work and made heaps of metres, I agree with the notion that our backrow is simply not performing.

We had a bench of Shackleton, Achurch, Robinson and Simpkins big and strong that can use the ball we win. very simple formula but effective

 

[age.s]

Jennings, Lewis, McKendry, Gordon (injured fair enough), Grant, Coote. 6 starter rep players. Compare to Sharks or Tigers. Or better still Roosters and Parra. Sure none are 1/2's there's enough for us to atleast match last year's 9 wins.

You're completely ignoring the other factors involved though.

The team has had a major culture shift in the last year. Building a culture where a strong coach can have an influence without being white anted is something that needed to occur before consistency can be developed. That's not always easy to swallow for players that aren't used to it, and that's a factor that has to be taken into account when analyzing results this year.

That's a big reason why people are saying "wait till next year" before judging Cleary. In 2013 he'll have had a full year under his belt, a roster he's built rather than inherited and hopefully a culture where he's able to consistently get the best out of players. If that doesn't happen then we start asking questions.

 

[Big Mick]

Of course I think that. But I'm not gonna call a guy a dud or say he is stupid based on his first year.

He has shit to work with.

I'll judge him from next year.