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"It’s very realistic to say that we’ll have a second team in Brisbane in 2023": V'landys

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
43,319
Rabbitohs and Storm are owned by strong figures who have connections with the big end of town.

We'll have to wait five or ten years after Brisbane 2 enters the competition to know how viable they will be in the long-term. There's no guarantee that the new club will pull 20k from day one, or
ever, regardless of whether it's in the middle of a heartland city with a neutral brand or based in the other suburbs.

The norm for professional RL-RU clubs around the world is to average well under 20k.

Brisbane isnt the norm though is it, there isnt another RL city of 3million with just two clubs in it. It would be very dissapointing if the new club cant draw 20k plus given all we have been hearing for years is of all the latent RL fanbase that refuses to follow the Broncos but that would jump on board a new club. I mean if we end up with yet another 13k club only surviving because of pokie machines whats the point on spending $13mill a year of NRL money, and avery valuable license spot, on it?
 
Messages
3,659
Brisbane isnt the norm though is it, there isnt another RL city of 3million with just two clubs in it. It would be very dissapointing if the new club cant draw 20k plus given all we have been hearing for years is of all the latent RL fanbase that refuses to follow the Broncos but that would jump on board a new club. I mean if we end up with yet another 13k club only surviving because of pokie machines whats the point on spending $13mill a year of NRL money, and avery valuable license spot, on it?
Brisbane's RL community has been f**ked around over the last 70 years, by the NSWRL/ARL/News Ltd, to the point that a lot of goodwill has been lost and our competitors have had a chance to develop a niche in the market. The damage might be irreversible.

The only benefit from the NSWRL's shameful tactics to kill the BRL was it led to State of Origin, but they almost f**ked that up too with their insularity and pettiness. NSWRL tried to prevent SOO from starting up because they liked the residential system that guaranteed victory for NSW, so they threw a fit and claimed the QRL and Queenslanders were crazy and stupid for suggesting we go with the Origin model. Now they use the money it generates to prop up the 9 clubs in Sydney.

NSWRL used the advantage of pokies to drive the BRL into the ground. It wasn't until the 1990s that electronic gaming machines were legalised in Queensland, around 40 years after NSWRL clubs were given the green light to use them by the NSW government.

Arthurson and Quayle treated the BRL's fans with contempt by killing the nine BRL clubs in 1987 and giving them just one team in return. Their attempt at adding a second team in 1995 was tokenism bullshit in response to a falling out with the Broncos and was destined to fail, as they gave none of the four expansion clubs a chance to develop a stable base that they could build from. When things inevitably turned to shit they hung them out to dry.

When Murdoch won the war the NRL used the money provided by him and Ch.9 to bundle out Sydney clubs that were just as unviable as the Crushers and Reds. South QLD and Western/Perth were left to die because they didn't line up with Murdoch's goal of having SEQ reserved for his Broncos and, the only expansion team Murdoch was interested in was Melbourne due to its size. Correct me if I am wrong, but I got the impression he wanted SEQ all to himself so the Broncos could recoup the money he invested in the Storm.

Summing it up, the smartest thing would have been to establish two Brisbane clubs in 1988, but pettiness and self-interest got in the way. The ARLC is suddenly interested in adding a second team in 2023, which is 35 years too late, for no other reason than COVID-19 has put the survival of Sydney's 9 clubs in jeopardy and the only way they can bring money into the game is by adding a wealthy Brisbane club that will add guaranteed value to the broadcasting deal.
 
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Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
43,319
It’s added nothing to the ptv deal. Let’s hope it brings in more than $13mill a year from Ch9.
 
Messages
4,867
The norm for professional RL-RU clubs around the world is to average well under 20k.
The acceptance of mediocrity, and outright failure at times, in this sport is f**king insane.

You are basically arguing that everybody else is poorly run and underperform, therefore we should be allowed to be poorly run and underperform as well.

If Brisbane 2 averages anything less than 20-25k, after the novelty effect wears off, it'll be a failure.
 

Hartwood

Juniors
Messages
72
Can someone cut and paste this story please? Looks like the clubs independent report has been leaked!

Australian article about the report

The ARL Commission’s plan to expand the NRL competition is facing a significant hurdle after an independent 200-page report commissioned by 12 renegade clubs raised serious concerns over the damage a 17th team could do to the existing sides in Queensland and the credibility of the competition itself.
The Gemba Group finalised their investigation into expansion last week and it is understood they held a zoom meeting on Tuesday to discuss the findings with the clubs who paid for the report.

Sources close to the clubs confirmed the report raised serious concerns, most notably whether there was enough player depth to add another team and whether diluting the talent would lead to more blowout scorelines.

Further, the report suggested a new team would cannibalise support at existing clubs and lead to inflationary pressure not just on players at the three Queensland clubs, but also on coaching, high performance and administrative staff.

The Gemba Group painted a particularly dark picture for the existing Queensland teams as well as the Melbourne Storm, suggesting they were most vulnerable to being attacked by a new outfit seeking to sign players with a desire to play in Queensland.

The report added that there was some upside in expansion – more teams would mean more games and potentially generate more revenue. However the existing clubs point out that you don’t need to add another team to create more games.

They can do that on their own. The ARL Commission is expected to be furnished with the report on Wednesday morning as they prepare to step up their talks with the three groups bidding to join the NRL.

The Commission has called for expressions of interest from potential new clubs, having asked them to justify why they should be part of a new competition via an online portal.

That process has now closed and the commission is expected make a decision in late-July on whether they expand and if they do, which club wins the license to become the 17th team.

It is understood the three groups bidding to join the NRL – the Brisbane Jets, the Redcliffe Dolphins and the Brisbane Firehawks – will be given a final chance to state their claims when they present to the ARL Commission as early as next week.

Those talks will be crucial, but so too will discussions with the existing clubs given the findings by the Gemba Group. A number of clubs have been agitating for some evidence that adding a new side stacks up, both fiscally and from a competition perspective.

They are also demanding some form of financial compensation because the ARL Commission would be giving up a stake in the game by adding a 17th team. They now have greater leverage given the findings of the Gemba Group.

The existing 16 clubs are all members of the ARL Commission, effectively making them shareholders in the game itself. They believe they should be compensated – potentially to the tune of $40 million – in return for handing over a place in the NRL.

The latest developments on expansion were discussed by the clubs with the NRL late on Tuesday as they met to discuss the decision to return to level 3 biosecurity protocols following the latest Covid outbreak in Sydney.

Under the new protocols, players from the greater Sydney area must stay at home unless they are training, exercising or conducing essential services. Ten new local cases were reported in NSW on Tuesday, prompting the NRL to act fast to ensure the competition wasn’t interrupted.

They had to move quickly to protect State of Origin as well – referee Gerard Sutton and touch judges Todd Smith and Phil Henderson travelled to Queensland on Tuesday afternoon amid fears the Queensland government may close the borders.

What started as an update on the biosecurity protocols, rapidly mushroomed into a heated discussion about some of the other issues that are currently enveloping the game.

It is understood the clubs once again raised concerns over the salary cap from 2023 and questioned plans for the World Cup to go ahead later this year given the Covid concerns in England, where the tournament is due to be held.

The tournament could have significant repercussions for the start of next year’s competition given players will need to spend two weeks in quarantine on their return home, and then be given their mandatory eight weeks holiday.

It would mean the game’s elite starting next year’s competition with as little as four weeks pre-season training under their belt.
 
Messages
3,659
The acceptance of mediocrity, and outright failure at times, in this sport is f**king insane.

You are basically arguing that everybody else is poorly run and underperform, therefore we should be allowed to be poorly run and underperform as well.

If Brisbane 2 averages anything less than 20-25k, after the novelty effect wears off, it'll be a failure.
I wish we averaged 30k or more, but for some odd reason we don't. My guess is the game is best viewed on TV as the action takes place within a 20 metre segment, which can be captured quite well on camera.
 
Messages
3,659
Australian article about the report

The ARL Commission’s plan to expand the NRL competition is facing a significant hurdle after an independent 200-page report commissioned by 12 renegade clubs raised serious concerns over the damage a 17th team could do to the existing sides in Queensland and the credibility of the competition itself.
The Gemba Group finalised their investigation into expansion last week and it is understood they held a zoom meeting on Tuesday to discuss the findings with the clubs who paid for the report.

Sources close to the clubs confirmed the report raised serious concerns, most notably whether there was enough player depth to add another team and whether diluting the talent would lead to more blowout scorelines.

Further, the report suggested a new team would cannibalise support at existing clubs and lead to inflationary pressure not just on players at the three Queensland clubs, but also on coaching, high performance and administrative staff.

The Gemba Group painted a particularly dark picture for the existing Queensland teams as well as the Melbourne Storm, suggesting they were most vulnerable to being attacked by a new outfit seeking to sign players with a desire to play in Queensland.

The report added that there was some upside in expansion – more teams would mean more games and potentially generate more revenue. However the existing clubs point out that you don’t need to add another team to create more games.

They can do that on their own. The ARL Commission is expected to be furnished with the report on Wednesday morning as they prepare to step up their talks with the three groups bidding to join the NRL.

The Commission has called for expressions of interest from potential new clubs, having asked them to justify why they should be part of a new competition via an online portal.

That process has now closed and the commission is expected make a decision in late-July on whether they expand and if they do, which club wins the license to become the 17th team.

It is understood the three groups bidding to join the NRL – the Brisbane Jets, the Redcliffe Dolphins and the Brisbane Firehawks – will be given a final chance to state their claims when they present to the ARL Commission as early as next week.

Those talks will be crucial, but so too will discussions with the existing clubs given the findings by the Gemba Group. A number of clubs have been agitating for some evidence that adding a new side stacks up, both fiscally and from a competition perspective.

They are also demanding some form of financial compensation because the ARL Commission would be giving up a stake in the game by adding a 17th team. They now have greater leverage given the findings of the Gemba Group.

The existing 16 clubs are all members of the ARL Commission, effectively making them shareholders in the game itself. They believe they should be compensated – potentially to the tune of $40 million – in return for handing over a place in the NRL.

The latest developments on expansion were discussed by the clubs with the NRL late on Tuesday as they met to discuss the decision to return to level 3 biosecurity protocols following the latest Covid outbreak in Sydney.

Under the new protocols, players from the greater Sydney area must stay at home unless they are training, exercising or conducing essential services. Ten new local cases were reported in NSW on Tuesday, prompting the NRL to act fast to ensure the competition wasn’t interrupted.

They had to move quickly to protect State of Origin as well – referee Gerard Sutton and touch judges Todd Smith and Phil Henderson travelled to Queensland on Tuesday afternoon amid fears the Queensland government may close the borders.

What started as an update on the biosecurity protocols, rapidly mushroomed into a heated discussion about some of the other issues that are currently enveloping the game.

It is understood the clubs once again raised concerns over the salary cap from 2023 and questioned plans for the World Cup to go ahead later this year given the Covid concerns in England, where the tournament is due to be held.

The tournament could have significant repercussions for the start of next year’s competition given players will need to spend two weeks in quarantine on their return home, and then be given their mandatory eight weeks holiday.

It would mean the game’s elite starting next year’s competition with as little as four weeks pre-season training under their belt.
Maybe Melbourne Storm should be forced to give $40m to the Queensland clubs since it has leeched off Queenslanders for over 20 years.

Sydney clubs should be paying millions of dollars each year to the QRL to make up for the injustice they inflicted on the game with their pokies between the 50s and 90s.
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
43,319
I wish we averaged 30k or more, but for some odd reason we don't. My guess is the game is best viewed on TV as the action takes place within a 20 metre segment, which can be captured quite well on camera.
myth. Like saying people dont go to concerts as the music from their digital stereo is a better sound. Or dont go to theatre as you can see it easier on tv. People attend live events for the experience, not the view. If we cant get people to our events maybe we need to look at the experience they are having for the cost they are paying?
 

Perth Red

Immortal
Messages
43,319
Maybe Melbourne Storm should be forced to give $40m to the Queensland clubs since it has leeched off Queenslanders for over 20 years.

Sydney clubs should be paying millions of dollars each year to the QRL to make up for the injustice they inflicted on the game with their pokies between the 50s and 90s.

or maybe the QRL should pay the Storm for being the states #1 player development centre?? Good luck winning origin for all those years without the Storm turning good kids into world class professionals.

Way I see it Redcliffe damage Storm most, Jets damage Broncos and Firehawks potentially GC. Its clear the clubs are kicking up a stinck and the NRL's response is to charge the new club to dish out soem cash to appease the existing ones. Sigh, only in RL!
 
Messages
3,659
myth. Like saying people dont go to concerts as the music from their digital stereo is a better sound. Or dont go to theatre as you can see it easier on tv. People attend live events for the experience, not the view. If we cant get people to our events maybe we need to look at the experience they are having for the cost they are paying?
My experience of going to the game is the bloody drunks never stop walking up and down the stairs to get to the grog shop and shithouse to empty their bladder, obstructing my view of the game. Every two minutes there's some pisshead saying "excuse me, excuse me" as he gets from his seat to the stairway, forcing everyone to stand up so he can get past, as the rows are so skinny.
 
Messages
3,659
or maybe the QRL should pay the Storm for being the states #1 player development centre?? Good luck winning origin for all those years without the Storm turning good kids into world class professionals.

Way I see it Redcliffe damage Storm most, Jets damage Broncos and Firehawks potentially GC. Its clear the clubs are kicking up a stinck and the NRL's response is to charge the new club to dish out soem cash to appease the existing ones. Sigh, only in RL!
I couldn't care less about Origin. It f**ks the season.

I still think Firehawks and Pirates should be the new teams and they shouldn't have to pay shit to the pre-existing ones, who already get enough from HQ.
 

Mr Spock!

Coach
Messages
19,284
if any club should be relocated its a Sydney club.

Titans won't be moving as long as the Suns are there.
It's Sydney clubs which are actually playing decent footy.

The only reason the gold coast has an afl and nrl team is purely to spite the other code.

Both teams are icons of failure and mediocrity. And the Titans/Chargers/Seagulls have brought nothing to the game.

And they may as well move the Titans to Brisbane to be the second Brisbane reserve grade team.
 
Messages
7,013
The acceptance of mediocrity, and outright failure at times, in this sport is f**king insane.

You are basically arguing that everybody else is poorly run and underperform, therefore we should be allowed to be poorly run and underperform as well.

If Brisbane 2 averages anything less than 20-25k, after the novelty effect wears off, it'll be a failure.
Its a f**king pity you’re not running the NRL.

Awesome, insightful and prescient point.
 

flippikat

Bench
Messages
2,677
if any club should be relocated its a Sydney club.

Titans won't be moving as long as the Suns are there.

Precisely.

Nevermind that the GC has been a money-losing, under performing pit for just about every sports league since forever - the AFL & NRL are playing "chicken" in the market against each other and neither wants to be the one that blinks first.
 
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