"It’s very realistic to say that we’ll have a second team in Brisbane in 2023": V'landys

[flippikat]

My team went to superleague, and im grateful they did, if not for them maybe there is no team far out west of sydney, and we'd be as fkd as north sydney are, and there is a majority of reasons why Sydney won't expand in NSW ever again, im also glad that the warriors, cowboys and somewhat reds did also too, as they are places that RL needs to be at top flight, had they not gone to SL they'd all be where the crushers and chargers were, and unfortunately the reds didn't last, but in hindsight dropping perth and bris2 wasn't the way to go, as we now in the next decade will be finally back to expanding there again.
Personally im not an advocate for rationalization, but since its happened, we've only gone backwards up until now, if anything we need to expand moreso, get upto 20 clubs, then see if there's any need for NSWRL clubs to rationalize to further expand or relocate, i feel there's a good spread of teams in Sydney, but a need to move a few permanently in better locations of future growth, like tigers in Campbelltown/Liverpool and Roosters North of the Bridge, atleast in terms of public fan days, weekly training and junior catchments, being in concord and bondi doesn't serve the greater sydney area, like the other sydney clubs do, besides "souths" is basically the city.
Even after we get to 20 clubs, with maybe SEQ3, SEQ4, Cairns-PNG, and NZ2, i can see 2 teams from sydney like tigers or roosters for example taking up lucrative opportunities in Wa & Sa, but not now and not until we get to 20 teams and a better finances that aren't soley reliant on broadcast money, the foundation clubs need to stand, they are the draw cards of the competition, and all current clubs need to stand as they are the brands of the NRL, but WHERE they stand is another question entirely, im all for expansion, and a few relocales but only if the club itself wants to thru necessity, but no mergers or rationalization

I think you've put a lot of thought & passion into this, and your points are really well made.

The big thing that makes me uneasy is the never-ending cycle of bailouts for Sydney clubs.. and some clubs seem to hit those rocky waters often.

If expansion to 20 clubs is first (say, Brisbane 2, Perth, Adelaide, NZ2 not necessarily in that order), THEN a focus on Sydney after that, then we miss opportunities in the next decade to realign the Sydney map as you describe.

I think both expansion and a re-draw of Sydney need to happen simultaneously over the next decade.. a tough prospect, but do-able. I agree with you that mergers aren't the way forward (given their woeful track record), but a combination of relocation & re-drawing the map (eg Roosters including the northern suburbs as you said) is the way forward.

 

[MugaB]

I think you've put a lot of thought & passion into this, and your points are really well made.

The big thing that makes me uneasy is the never-ending cycle of bailouts for Sydney clubs.. and some clubs seem to hit those rocky waters often.

If expansion to 20 clubs is first (say, Brisbane 2, Perth, Adelaide, NZ2 not necessarily in that order), THEN a focus on Sydney after that, then we miss opportunities in the next decade to realign the Sydney map as you describe.

I think both expansion and a re-draw of Sydney need to happen simultaneously over the next decade.. a tough prospect, but do-able. I agree with you that mergers aren't the way forward (given their woeful track record), but a combination of relocation & re-drawing the map (eg Roosters including the northern suburbs as you said) is the way forward.

This i can't agree with as you point out bail outs, as your only referring to your naitive of more NswRL rationalization, bail outs and prop ups for Gold coast, Mebourne and Newcastle were also happening too, remember most league clubs dont profit, bronx are an exceptional due to being the one horse town, all those advantages mean they can prosper ahead of everyone else, but that doesn't mean they are the model to promote. They have a heartland city to themselves, thats insane, imagine Melbourne was a heartland city?
The brands are the power that NRL want to keep, not so much geographical spread, yes Newcastle, Gold coast have a place, but to me geography is what makes the comp even, plus represent rugby league better if the right amount of clubs were in each major populace, unfortunately in the real world, Townsville of 200k is worthy of a club, but brisbane of 3m only has one club too, aswell as Melbourne of 5m.
There's no redraws of county lines of what you speak, even bringing that up will start more war between factions, basically within Sydney and SEQ, and it won't fix anything other than labelling certian clubs useless.

I've personally been an advocate for roosters to relocate for years, as they are the only club in Sydney that isn't nessesary or more like not helping the greater good by being in Sydney, where every other team has their pro's.. i also want to see 2 more teams in greater brisbane, to better strengthen that major capital, and hopefully one day we can see a similar rivalry in Auckland and Melbourne

 

[Jim Rockford]

I don’t always agree with PR but for the 10 years I’ve been here, he’s made a lot of good observations and doesn’t deserve to be derided tbh.

I wouldn't jump down his throat if he hadn't come hard at me initially about something I said about the Storm. If he thinks he is man enough to dish it out then he has to be prepared to cop it in return. As far as good observations go, i guess it's like the old saying about a stopped clock being right twice a day. Post as much as he does and sooner or later you may get something right.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

What would happen if Cronulla and St George relocated to Adelaide/Perth and a new team was created to represent Southern Sydney when Brisbane 2 enters the league?

Southern Sydney has less than 500k people but has two teams. Craziness. A new team that has no ties to the Sharks and Dragons and neither of those clubs competing with them for supporters would theoretically have a larger catchment to establish a fanbase.

 

[Jim Rockford]

You are aware that St George already sacrificed a lot by merging and now you are advocating shipping them off to cities that don't give a damn about Rugby League. I don't know who you support but I'm willing to bet you haven't put forward your team as one that should be cut,merged or relocated, just other peoples teams. Perhaps if you stood to lose something you wouldn't be so quick to throw other peoples teams under the bus.

 

[The Mad Hatter]

You are aware that St George already sacrificed a lot by merging and now you are advocating shipping them off to cities that don't give a damn about Rugby League. I don't know who you support but I'm willing to bet you haven't put forward your team as one that should be cut,merged or relocated, just other peoples teams. Perhaps if you stood to lose something you wouldn't be so quick to throw other peoples teams under the bus.

Saints investigated and played a game a year in Adelaide between 1991-95.

Then there was the potential Easts merger with Geoff Carr in 1995.
Bruce Gordon also suggested moving the JV to Adelaide to use for his WIN tv but NRL knocked it back.
Adelaide Saints has a nice (church bell) ring about it.

 

[Jim Rockford]

Saints investigated and played a game a year in Adelaide between 1991-95.

Then there was the potential Easts merger with Geoff Carr in 1995.
Bruce Gordon also suggested moving the JV to Adelaide to use for his WIN tv but NRL knocked it back.
Adelaide Saints has a nice (church bell) ring about it.

Gordon may have wanted to move the team but the Saints fans I knew wanted no part of that, or with the merger with Easts. As someone who knows what it's like to have their team taken away, I am very surprised you're giving credence to these proposals put forward by those who want to inflict that same pain on other teams fanbases.

 

[The Mad Hatter]

Gordon may have wanted to move the team but the Saints fans I knew wanted no part of that, or with the merger with Easts. As someone who knows what it's like to have their team taken away, I am very surprised you're giving credence to these proposals put forward by those who want to inflict that same pain on other teams fanbases.

It’s a discussion so everything is open.

And yes, I lost my team. Luckily I got it back. But the history of the game shows it always changes. Teams come and go. The comp continues and should strive to grow. Quayle and Arko identified the NSWRL was too Sydney centric in early 80s and proceeded to expand and had intended contraction in Sydney. Luckily too that Wentworthville or Cabramatta weren’t the 1967 expansion teams or imagine the glut now.

I think the problem is, we had all the SL pain and are back where we were almost 25 years ago needing a Perth, Adelaide and 2nd Brisbane team. How we get there will cost - either a couple of Sydney teams die or move.

 

[MugaB]

You are aware that St George already sacrificed a lot by merging and now you are advocating shipping them off to cities that don't give a damn about Rugby League. I don't know who you support but I'm willing to bet you haven't put forward your team as one that should be cut,merged or relocated, just other peoples teams. Perhaps if you stood to lose something you wouldn't be so quick to throw other peoples teams under the bus.

He is a cowboys fan, who advocates for any and all sydney clubs to be culled, merged relocated etc, every week theres some new hair brained scheme to fk the sydney clubs, for the "good of the league" then spits out population stats, like he just did, but doesn't realize Townsville is even less than that, then he replies with the old, "oh fans travel from all over for cowboys"
Well fk so do dragons and sharks fans.

Dragons represent the south coast aswell, so everytime i see a dumb post by anyone spouting them in the same area, i know they straight away they are talking shit

 

[Jim Rockford]

He is a cowboys fan, who advocates for any and all sydney clubs to be culled, merged relocated etc, every week theres some new hair brained scheme to fk the sydney clubs, for the "good of the league" then spits out population stats, like he just did, but doesn't realize Townsville is even less than that, then he replies with the old, "oh fans travel from all over for cowboys"
Well fk so do dragons and sharks fans.

Dragons represent the south coast aswell, so everytime i see a dumb post by anyone spouting them in the same area, i know they straight away they are talking shit

A Cowboys fan eh, well that explains a lot. I can just imagine his response to someone saying that the Cowboys should be merged with the Broncos. I'm sure that would go down like a lead balloon with him. Perhaps he should be thankful that those Sydney clubs he's keen to get rid of allowed his Cowboys team to join the comp they worked hard to build up and make successful. It would have been easy for them to say Townsville is too far away and doesn't have enough people. Now he wants to bite the hand that feeds him.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

A Cowboys fan eh, well that explains a lot. I can just imagine his response to someone saying that the Cowboys should be merged with the Broncos. I'm sure that would go down like a lead balloon with him. Perhaps he should be thankful that those Sydney clubs he's keen to get rid of allowed his Cowboys team to join the comp they worked hard to build up and make successful. It would have been easy for them to say Townsville is too far away and doesn't have enough people. Now he wants to bite the hand that feeds him.

The Cowboys were forced to pay for the accommodation and airfare of every Sydney club that travelled to Townsville in 1995 and 1996, which crippled the club and forced them to sign with Super League to survive.

Arthurson and Quayle set the game back 30 years by favouring Sydney to the detriment of everyone else, and we're still paying the price for it while AwFuL laughs all the way to the bank.

You can suggest Cowboys merge with Broncos all you like. It doesn't upset me one bit because it's the dumbest suggestion I've ever heard and has zero chance of happening. Both clubs provide strong ratings for the broadcasters, are financially secure and have large supporter bases that put most Sydney clubs to shame. Besides, Brisbane is closer to Sydney than Townsville, so how would a merger like that work?

Sydney teams are in the firing line for relocation, merging with one another or getting the guillotine because there's too many of them and the smaller ones are a f**ken liability strangling the game to death. There's just not enough RL fans in Sydney to prop up nine clubs. Go look at the yearly TV ratings to see my point. The smaller Sydney clubs are always the least watched teams, which makes them useless to the broadcasters.

Broncos, Storm and Cowboys consistently draw strong ratings on Ch9 and Foxtel. Without them our game wouldn't get so much money. Same cannot be said for Sharks and Dragons.

Cowboys are able to draw corporate support from major companies like Toyota as they are the only major professional sports club in all of North Queensland and are avidly followed by the community. The Sharks and Dragons are cannibalising one another and competing with seven other clubs for corporate support and fans.

 

[Jim Rockford]

Just as I thought. Quick to condemn the Sydney clubs but gets his panties in a bunch if his team is touted for merging. Like I said you should be thankful we allowed you to join our comp, personally I would much rather have the Bears or Newtown still in the comp rather than the Cowboys.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

Just as I thought. Quick to condemn the Sydney clubs but gets his panties in a bunch if his team is touted for merging. Like I said you should be thankful we allowed you to join our comp, personally I would much rather have the Bears or Newtown still in the comp rather than the Cowboys.

I'd much rather the NQ Marlins, Gold Coast Vikings and the 10 BRL clubs from 1988 played in a fully professional Queensland Cup with your lot playing in the NSWRL Premiership with Illawarra, Canberra and Newcastle, but we cannot have everything we want.

I pointed out why my team won't merge any time soon. I get that you're passionate about Sydney RL, but you cannot compare nine Sydney clubs with areas that only have one team.

Rabbitohs would probably benefit the most from Dragons and Sharks going to Adelaide and Perth. South Sydney Rabbitohs could take over Southern Sydney, maybe even relocate their HQ there and expand the club's marketability. It could become bigger than the Broncos.

 

[Jim Rockford]

That's the thing though. I'm not so selfish that I would be happy to relocate the Sharks and Dragons just so Souths can benefit. You only think about what's good for you and you couldn't give a shit about anyone else. That's a very pathetic way to go through life. Maybe one day you'll have an epiphany and realise this. Finally, I think there should be a rule that club identities should be uniquely Australian not taken from US teams and which have no relevance to anything Australian. If they love the US more than Australia then they can move there and leave Australia to those who are proud Aussies.

 

[Get Rid of The Donkeys]

That's the thing though. I'm not so selfish that I would be happy to relocate the Sharks and Dragons just so Souths can benefit. You only think about what's good for you and you couldn't give a shit about anyone else. That's a very pathetic way to go through life. Maybe one day you'll have an epiphany and realise this. Finally, I think there should be a rule that club identities should be uniquely Australian not taken from US teams and which have no relevance to anything Australian. If they love the US more than Australia then they can move there and leave Australia to those who are proud Aussies.

I agree that club identities should be Australian.

I asked what would happen if a new team was created for Southern Sydney so the Dragons and Sharks could relocate to Australia's fourth and fifth largest markets. I still haven't got a legitimate answer to my question from you or @MugaB.

I've seen our game go from being on almost level pegging with AwFuL in the mid-90s to being 30 years behind it in every KPI in 2021. Most of it is due to our Sydney centric administration basing the interests of Sydney's clubs ahead of the game as a whole, to the detriment of Country Rugby League, Queensland Rugby League, NZRL and any potential growth into Adelaide and Perth.

Our game can no longer afford to f**k around.

 

[Mr Angry]

Outside AFL & NRL, there's no other sports league in the world that has such a concentration of teams in one city.

AFL have been able to mitigate that to a degree by their "focus on the big fish" strategy of going for state capitals, then derby-ising those cities.

The NRL has painted itself into a corner due to the plethora of Sydney clubs and a decent number of mid-size town/regional clubs.

I don't think enough people realise that some of the issues that spurred the creation of Superleague are still issues now.

Huh? Heard of England, little place called London they like soccer....NY has three teams in NFL, NHL, NBA, MLB.

Victorians are dickheads.

 

[Perth Red]

Game would be dead without well established Sydney teams. You know super league failed don't you?!

Well we never got chance to see the original iteration of SL so we will never know if it would have led to the nrl being bigger than afl now or not. not all of SL was a fail, it allowed uk game to go full time professional for example.

 

[Jim Rockford]

I agree that club identities should be Australian.

I asked what would happen if a new team was created for Southern Sydney so the Dragons and Sharks could relocate to Australia's fourth and fifth largest markets. I still haven't got a legitimate answer to my question from you or @MugaB.

I gave you an answer. What you obviously want is validation for your moronic proposal. Glad you agree that it's ridiculous to have teams here with American identities that have no relevance to anything Australian. So what do you think North Queensland should change to?

 

[Perth Red]

I don’t always agree with PR but for the 10 years I’ve been here, he’s made a lot of good observations and doesn’t deserve to be derided tbh.

He’s on ignore so I have no idea what spiteful, ignorant, abusive nonsense he is posting lol. Like many before him he will eventually disappear as he has nothing to contribute.

 

[Jim Rockford]

Huh? Heard of England, little place called London they like soccer....NY has three teams in NFL, NHL, NBA, MLB.

Victorians are dickheads.

It's not just Victorians that are dickheads. We've got 3 massive dickheads here in this thread.